Relapse or something else after viral infection?

[jimmy86]

Hi,

I have CFS since 2008 and over the years got better and better. The last five years I worked full time, and the last two years I was even riding around town on my electric bike.

Four weeks ago I got a light viral infection, a light fever, and a dry cough that persisted for more than two weeks, but was in good energy. It could have been Corona, but I did not get tested. Then, suddenly, a couple of days later I became weaker and weaker. Since a couple of days I am now resting in bed with severe muscle aches, burning and twitching muscles in the legs (and starting today partly the arms) that appear even when I just walk around in the apartment.

These are somehow strange symptoms to me. Usually, when I crash with CFS after I overdo, I would feel inflamed, with a sore throat, severe brain fog, tiredness, and sore muscles. Apart from this muscle weakness I feel pretty clear in my head, and not tired at all.

So I am wondering whether this is a relapse or whether there are other post-viral conditions that could bring this severe muscle aches and twitches that I am experiencing right now.

Jimmy

 

[Booble]

Hi, Jimmy. I think the viruses over the last couple years are knocking people for a loop for much harder and longer and in different ways than they used to. I had a virus in early December. The first week it was focused mostly on my lower throat and vocal cord area. The second week that continued along with heavy coughing especially at night and getting conjunctivitis in one eye. After two weeks, I thought I was turning the corner but alas in my third week my sinuses got bad. Then I began having severe fatigue and stomach issues. Then I lost my appetite and had a hard time eating anything. Then I started getting weird anxiety. All of this lasted a good 8 weeks before I started feeling closer to myself. I still feel only 85% myself after 4 months.

As for muscle aches, at one point I had them but only in weird select spots. Like my elbows and other joints. Sometimes my toes! Oh, and there were days when my legs felt weird and very weak.

If you are at 4 weeks, I'd give it another couple weeks before you start worrying too much. I talked to a lot of people at the time and many had a variety of changing symptoms over a 4 - 10 week period.

Hope you feel better soon. These things are awful. I almost never get colds or flu so this thing really kicked the crap out of me.

 

[Hip]

The original 2003 SARS coronavirus outbreak was observed to cause a lot of people a long-term fatiguing illness called chronic post-SARS syndrome. Whether SARS-CoV-2 might also do this is not yet know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071317/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20008700/

 

[jimmy86]

The original 2003 SARS coronavirus outbreak was observed to cause a lot of people a long-term fatiguing illness called chronic post-SARS syndrome. Whether SARS-CoV-2 might also do this is not yet know.

Interesting, thank you!

Will check tomorrow with my doc, maybe there are other explanations for this but I doubt it....

 

[jimmy86]

Also, SARS-CoV-2 is potentially associated with Guillain-Barré

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(20)30109-5/fulltext

 

[jimmy86]

So my muscle weakness is getting more and more severe every day.

Almost my entire body is twitching now. However, I do not feel so much exhausted.

I am still taking LDN 2.25 mg every day, wich was my sole therapy for the last 2 years.

Any idea what could cause these extremely weak and burning muscles? Supplement ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Booble]

Is there a specific condition that you are worrying about?

 

[jimmy86]

I never had such weak muscles. Could it be a mild form of Guillian Barre syndrome?

But I worry that this is a severe relapse . I would appreciate any help how to maybe get out of this.

 

[Learner1]

Oxidative and nitrosative stress is a big factor in COVID-19, as well as other infections.

You might look into reducing oxidative stress with glutathione and other antioxidants and replenishing membrane phospholipids with NT Factor. No guarantee they will work, but it might be worth a try. An HDRI nitrotyrosine test and s Genova Diagnostics NutrEval would be helpful in investigating.

 

[Booble]

The twitching makes me wonder if it's something else. Do you have tele-medicine capability where you are located to speak to a doctor over the phone or video?

 

[jimmy86]

Oxidative and nitrosative stress is a big factor in COVID-19, as well as other infections.

You might look into reducing oxidative stress with glutathione and other antioxidants and replenishing membrane phospholipids with NT Factor. No guarantee they will work, but it might be worth a try. An HDRI nitrotyrosine test and s Genova Diagnostics NutrEval would be helpful in investigating.

Thanks for that!

For reducing oxidative stress, would B12 and whey protein work?

My doc Dr Bieger suggested to take NAD+

 

[jimmy86]

The twitching makes me wonder if it's something else. Do you have tele-medicine capability where you are located to speak to a doctor over the phone or video?

I might be able to drag myself to the doctor on Monday. But muscle twitches are not so uncommon in ME/CFS are they?

 

[Learner1]

Thanks for that!

For reducing oxidative stress, would B12 and whey protein work?

My doc Dr Bieger suggested to take NAD+

See attached. Whey protein is an indirect source of glutathione and may be help you, but there's more to it. B12 is useful with the other cofactors, like folate, C, and BH4.

NAD+ can be helpful. But it can be like adding gasoline to a broken engine. It helps me, but I've worked to decrease peroxynitrites and repair damaged membranes so mitos are more effective, then adding NAD+ and/or NMN helps then to make more energy. (Peroxynitrites damage mito membranes and impair complex I )

 

[Booble]

I'm not sure but magnesium used to calm down twitching for me.

 

[Learner1]

The twitching makes me wonder if it's something else. Do you have tele-medicine capability where you are located to speak to a doctor over the phone or video?

Another possibility is that a virus could have triggered autoimmunity. There are all kinds of weird antibodies that can be triggered. There are antibody panels like Pavel and Cunningham and others which can identify which antibodies got triggered.

But damaged mitos can make nerves do strange things too.

Or both could be factors...

 

[jimmy86]

Oxidative and nitrosative stress is a big factor in COVID-19, as well as other infections.

You might look into reducing oxidative stress with glutathione and other antioxidants and replenishing membrane phospholipids with NT Factor. No guarantee they will work, but it might be worth a try. An HDRI nitrotyrosine test and s Genova Diagnostics NutrEval would be helpful in investigating.

That is interesting, I found this paper:

"Based on a small case series (n=198) patients with COVID-19 had a noticeable increase of glutathione reductase (GR) levels occurring in around 40% of COVID-19 patients.(3)"

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/n-ace...dence-for-effectiveness-in-treating-covid-19/

 

[jimmy86]

See attached. Whey protein is an indirect source of glutathione and may be help you, but there's more to it. B12 is useful with the other cofactors, like folate, C, and BH4.

So I took 2 drinks of Whey yesterday, and one hour after the second drink most of my leg weakness and pain had disappeared. It came back this morning but I was able to do significantly more.

I am sure now I have a methylation problem, and too much oxidative stress. Will add B12, Vit C and folate now and see how it goes.

 

[Learner1]

That is interesting, I found this paper:

"Based on a small case series (n=198) patients with COVID-19 had a noticeable increase of glutathione reductase (GR) levels occurring in around 40% of COVID-19 patients.(3)"

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/n-ace...dence-for-effectiveness-in-treating-covid-19/

Interesting. Even though the paper is not so encouraging, it seems to indicate that taking NAC would help, not just because if helping increase gkyrathjond but also to reduce excess mucous.

 

[Learner1]

So I took 2 drinks of Whey yesterday, and one hour after the second drink most of my leg weakness and pain had disappeared. It came back this morning but I was able to do significantly more.

I am sure now I have a methylation problem, and too much oxidative stress. Will add B12, Vit C and folate now and see how it goes.

Good news! You might include B6, B2, and magnesium as they are also needed. And possibly B1 and molybdenum for transsulfuration.

 

[Booble]

That's great news. I was just coming over to this thread to check on you!