Red Light Therapy, PEMF, Oxyhydrogen, and AVS

[Dysfunkion]

One weird thing I've noticed so far and now I know it's not just me cause it stuck is that since starting RLT when I shave which is every day since I'm still very early on in my laser sessions is that I am no longer getting lasting stinging irritation from doing so whereas before it I would burn like crazy. So it's effected some sort of skin level response to things that may have some immune mediation factor anyways but aren't something like chemical exposure. Interesting, not sure what could be going on there.

 

[stellaluna]

Update.
It has now been 11 days since my first treatment and 5 days since my second.

As I am a yapper and this post is long, I have included an AI summary at the end.

Sunday, the day of my second treatment. I really did way too much on this day. I was feeling good after my treatment and went to get a hair cut. The stylist ripped out my cartilage earring and I had to go to a piercing shop to deal with that. Also picked up groceries. It was also very sunny on this day so I got some more rashes and was feeling a bit sick from the sun. I spent the the evening in bed. Of note, I did not take any steroid or NSAID this day, I have not taken any since the day of my first treatment. I feel confident that they were not a significant confounding variable in my response to my first session.

Monday. Rest day. A bit of a “crash” but very mild compared to what I’m used to. It seems like since my baseline has improved significantly, my crashes involve the same amount of worsening relative to my baseline but are overall much milder. I spent most of the day in bed but did do some light housework.

Tuesday. Was really scared for this day. I had an exam at 11am and then had to go straight to work from 3-6pm. I coach preschool gymnastics, which involves lifting heavy equipment around for set up, teaching two 45 min classes full of screaming toddlers, and putting the equipment back. I did my exam, got pho for lunch, got to work early, studied a bit, worked, got home and was just too exhausted to wash my hair. Just went to sleep. I was impressed at how well I was able to handle the day but was worried about a crash. I used 3.75mg of hydromorphone to get me through this day. By the end of the day, I felt a sense of fullness, heat, inflammation behind my face (in a flu-like way). I spent a lot of that evening rolling around in bed and groaning.

Wednesday. Had to take a short flight for a family emergency of sorts. Started the day by cleaning as best I could, taking out the garbage, clearing the fridge. Then I had a LED facial (red and blue light + lymphatic massage) on the way to my other appointments. I wanted to further support my skin healing but this appointment was a bad idea as my skin was introduced to a bunch of new products and ended up reacting quite badly. Afterwards, I got my hair washed because I didn’t have it in me to do it myself. Then, an IV appointment. Laid back for 1 hour while I received IV NaCl, magnesium, B complex, and vit C. It was quite relaxing and restorative. I got on my flight and then put on a sleep mask and headphones for the drive home. Rested in bed the rest of the day. The day was quite a lot. Rashes and feeling ill exacerbated again by the sun.

Thursday. Rested in bed for most of the day. My mom took me grocery shopping in the evening and then we had dinner together. I was able to manage a short walk around the block after to help with my digestion. Again, this day felt like a sort of mild crash but surprisingly functional for being in a crash.

Friday. I just woke up but I feel a bit heavy but not too sick.

Reflection. I think my week has been absurd. Grueling. Normally I could not handle this. I seem to be having mini-crashes but recovering from them quickly. I really need to prevent these going forward but the combination of an exam, work, and a family emergency requiring travel has been a LOT. I have been overall feeling worse than last week but it’s understandable given my activity level. I am now trying to dial it way back.

But it’s kind of weird. I have some imposter syndrome. Like omg, I can do SO MUCH. I can’t do as much as a healthy person, obviously, but compared to my experience of ME, it’s hard to even feel like I have it. Obviously I still do. Obviously I need to be careful. I definitely need to scale it back and really prioritize rest going forward. But I don’t know, such a rapid improvement really messes with your mind.

Capacity before starting treatment. Before I started these treatments, I was a 3-4 on the PR ME severity scale. My average step count was 3k a day. What I was able to do without crashing was: study for 1 hour a day, do basic ADLs (hygiene/grooming, light tidying and cleaning, preparing meals), do my virtual appointments, and once a week I could leave my home to go to appointments or grocery shop.

Current capacity. Currently, I’m probably 5 on the PR ME severity scale (in terms of what I can do without crashing, although as I mentioned my crashes have been much milder). I feel less sick overall. My average step count has doubled to around 6k a day (though I think I should dial it back to 5k max). I am able to leave my home more often without crashing. My brain doesn’t poop out as quickly when doing cognitively demanding work. I just feel a lot healthier and I’m so incredibly grateful for this.

Obviously this week the exam, work, and family emergency were new factors that I did not face last week. Also, the sun and the new products that were used on my face. They make things harder to interpret in a way. My skin has been worse off and my GI symptoms have flared a little bit (eating has been quite thrown off due to travel). I have not been sleeping well either. Next week I will be back at home. I work one day and have no exams. I will just continue to evaluate how I feel and try to prioritize rest going forward.

AI summary

Summary – Week 2 of Red Light + PEMF Therapy

Sunday (Second Treatment Day)

• Felt energized → haircut, piercing emergency, grocery run.
• Got sun rash, felt ill by evening. No steroid/NSAID taken.

Monday

• Mild crash but manageable. Rested mostly, did light chores.

Tuesday

• Big day: exam + preschool gymnastics job (physically intense).
• Used 3.75 mg hydromorphone. Very fatigued by evening with flu-like symptoms.

Wednesday

• Short flight for family emergency.
• LED facial triggered skin reaction. IV (saline, Mg, B-vits, C) was restorative.
• Very overstimulating day with sun exposure → worsened rash/illness.

Thursday

• Rested. Managed grocery trip and short post-dinner walk. Mild crash.

Friday (Morning)

• Woke feeling heavy but not severely unwell.

Reflection

• This week was intense and abnormal, yet still more manageable than such weeks would’ve been before treatment.
• Experiencing “mini crashes” but bouncing back faster.
• Feeling some imposter syndrome due to improved functioning

Function Before vs. Now

Aspect	Before (Pre-Treatment)	Now (Post-Treatment)
PR Severity Score	3–4	~5
Steps/Day	~3,000	~6,000 (aiming for 5k)
Cognitive Stamina	~1 hr studying/day	More sustained, less brain fog
Crashes	More severe, longer recovery	Milder, quicker recovery
Outings	~1x/week	Several per week now

Looking Ahead

• Planning a lower-activity week with 1 workday and no exams.
• GI symptoms, skin, and sleep have been affected by travel and product use.
• Goal: prioritize rest and continue tracking response to treatments

 

[Dysfunkion]

No it's fine, the big posts are the best!

"By the end of the day, I felt a sense of fullness, heat, inflammation behind my face (in a flu-like way). I spent a lot of that evening rolling around in bed and groaning." - Yes that's also how I know I'm in the danger zone. The red light in the morning is the only thing that's able to beat it back after the enzymes chip away at it and what will happen as it's doing that if that specific feeling is there is that the heat behind the forehead will feel a bit lighter and "spicier" and then will drop off and I'll feel a bit more over charged from it throughout the day. My digestive system will also start right back up too, that flu like state partially disables it. Consistent pattern but now it's like my mission to specifically find out what causes that state that the red light is able to eliminate while backed up by my enzyme routine which is serrapeptase every day and I add caricain every other day. The other day it started to come on again after a string of over exertions but I don't know what in them did it as my PEM threshold with the red light is much higher.

Once that is gone I tolerate the red light better and can go at a higher frequency and for somewhat longer. I can do about 1 and a half minutes now every other day where when I first started just under a minute would cause a wild reaction.

 

[stellaluna]

No it's fine, the big posts are the best!

"By the end of the day, I felt a sense of fullness, heat, inflammation behind my face (in a flu-like way). I spent a lot of that evening rolling around in bed and groaning." - Yes that's also how I know I'm in the danger zone. The red light in the morning is the only thing that's able to beat it back after the enzymes chip away at it and what will happen as it's doing that if that specific feeling is there is that the heat behind the forehead will feel a bit lighter and "spicier" and then will drop off and I'll feel a bit more over charged from it throughout the day. My digestive system will also start right back up too, that flu like state partially disables it. Consistent pattern but now it's like my mission to specifically find out what causes that state that the red light is able to eliminate while backed up by my enzyme routine which is serrapeptase every day and I add caricain every other day. The other day it started to come on again after a string of over exertions but I don't know what in them did it as my PEM threshold with the red light is much higher.

Once that is gone I tolerate the red light better and can go at a higher frequency and for somewhat longer. I can do about 1 and a half minutes now every other day where when I first started just under a minute would cause a wild reaction.

The variability in the amount of exposure that people can tolerate is very interesting to me. I am using a booth with red, green, and near-infrared (ARRC LED). First time was 20 minutes and second time was 30 min, no ill effects. I’ll admit, I’m not familiar with the details when it comes to the science of it all. I’m guessing illness severity and specifications of the lights are factors.

I don’t have a home device but I’d definitely be interested in getting one if this continues to work well for me. I don’t mind going in once a week but I think I would get overwhelmed (and broke!) going more often so it might be nice to supplement with something at home.

Usually the flu-like inflammation feeling happens at a lower level of intensity but lasts days or weeks and is accompanied by extreme heaviness and moderate pain in the body. It was interesting that this time it was a much stronger feeling but was relieved by just a few hours of rest and the body heaviness and pain were a lot milder.

I have heard that the light therapy works by causing stress to the body and the recovery from that stress is really where the benefit comes from. How soon after doing it do you notice an effect? For me, it seems to be 1-2 hours, but I have never it while feeling more crashy

 

[Dysfunkion]

The variability in the amount of exposure that people can tolerate is very interesting to me. I am using a booth with red, green, and near-infrared (ARRC LED). First time was 20 minutes and second time was 30 min, no ill effects. I’ll admit, I’m not familiar with the details when it comes to the science of it all. I’m guessing illness severity and specifications of the lights are factors.

I don’t have a home device but I’d definitely be interested in getting one if this continues to work well for me. I don’t mind going in once a week but I think I would get overwhelmed (and broke!) going more often so it might be nice to supplement with something at home.

Usually the flu-like inflammation feeling happens at a lower level of intensity but lasts days or weeks and is accompanied by extreme heaviness and moderate pain in the body. It was interesting that this time it was a much stronger feeling but was relieved by just a few hours of rest and the body heaviness and pain were a lot milder.

I have heard that the light therapy works by causing stress to the body and the recovery from that stress is really where the benefit comes from. How soon after doing it do you notice an effect? For me, it seems to be 1-2 hours, but I have never it while feeling more crashy

I am using only the red and near infrared, have you tried green on it's own? Almost all the talk online is about red light and blue light from monitors is horrific for me. My EMF sensitivity itself was bad enough before the enzymes and this light therapy but an unshielded monitor that really blue? I feel horrible from it much quicker and the facial heating things sets in much faster. So it's almost as if my body is responding in messed up ways to really specific radiation wavelengths and/patterns? With the enzymes and the red light therapy I am now playing video games for hours every night no problem. I still need to cover the console and have it wired through VGA but now I'm tolerating full radiation outputs from a processor operating under extremely high resource loads like nothing. I don't even feel it anymore when my main PC I'm on ramps up with CPU processing anymore. If I take all the shielding completely off though then things can still get ugly fast though but like the PEM the tolerance is now much higher.

The home device I'm using is the mini combo from Redlightman. I'll look into other colors though and explore this more. Every other day is fine for me at the moment. I do want to get a blue LED one and try it specifically out of curiosity on how I'd react to a minute on my head of with the strength of my red light. Though I feel like curiosity might kill the cat with that one so only if I'm feeling really brave.

For me the less intense bouts of it if I catch it early enough can last without doing anything before dropping me off at a worse baseline 2-3 days. If it was really bad it will hang at a lower intensity outside that for over a week and then the PEM threshold drops and I need to be very careful what I do especially if it has to do with talking/talking to myself in my head, doing anything where I'm making too many small motor movements (like typing this for example), EMF radiation over my threshold of tolerance, or listening to music. Those are my 3 biggest PEM tankers. I have a super danger zone that is worse than the normal danger zone where if when I have an extended interaction with someone or I'm listening to music and the "hot inflamed poisoned feeling" at some point during it almost instantly from 1 minute to another gets worse then it's time to minimize EVERYTHING. Do not go outside too much, don't talk to anyone too much, don't type much, Do not eat much, just sit in a chair in silence with your head down often and keep sleeping through it. Eventually if I get aggressive enough with the rest I start to come through the other side back into deep mild. Though I haven't hit that point in many months now. With this treatment I'm almost tapping on the glass ceiling normalcy but not quite. But from still getting hit somewhat recently due to some specific unknown exertion thing even on it then I know the PEM monster is never far behind.

Yeah I feel the evidence of that when I use it after the flu like thing begins (in fact I almost want to deliberately cause it and then as soon as I feel it fully set in, red light the reaction to see what immediately occurs) when that "spicy" feeling in my forehead gets a bit worse but lighter before starting to taper off. Like you that rebound tends to occur between 1 and 2 hours with me starting to feel the benefits of it minutes after. Sometimes as the spicy feeling is going away within that time range it will briefly pick up again at a random spike and then sharply drop off which is really interesting and consistent too with what happens. Wonder what that could be.

 

[stellaluna]

Update.
Another long rambly post. Scroll to the end for an AI-generated summary.

I have had a total of 4 weekly sessions so far.

Last week was my last week of work. For the first time, I seemingly didn’t crash after work. But maybe the crash was just uncharacteristically delayed because I worked on Tuesday and since there was no crash by Thursday morning (and because I have been so so lonely), I went out for dinner with a friend after going to class (only the decond time I had been to class the whole term fyi). I ended up crashing several hours after getting home.

This was the worst crash I have had since starting this therapy, and yet, it was still pretty mild. I was housebound for 2 days and spent a lot of it in bed but still able to meet my basic needs (e.g., personal hygiene and grooming, making meals, light housework). Still, I was so scared that this was it. That either the treatments have stopped working or that I had just pushed too hard and was going to have a downward spiral. And I didn’t. I just rested and recovered.

Last Sunday. The next treatment took longer to kick in as I was still in the tail end of a crash. Usually it takes 1-2 hours to feel an effect. I had my appointment around 2:30pm and didn’t feel better until the following morning.

Monday. I was able to go to school again to sit an exam and then meet up with a friend for bubble tea. I ended up getting too much sun and felt a bit ill and developed some rashes. Rested in bed the rest of the day.

Tuesday. Cleaned my apartment in preparation for a small vacation I had planned the following day. This was quite strenuous. I did not crash.

Wednesday. Left in the morning. Took 2 buses, a boat, and another 2 buses carrying a 25lbs duffel bag. Got early check in at the hotel and just laid in bed for a few hours. Wasn’t feeling well, I felt heavy and slightly flu-like, but it passed after a while so I went to the pool area and used the hot tub and sauna. Usually I do not crash from heat, only cold, unless I get dehydrated and don’t consume enough electrolytes. I had plenty of coconut water beforehand so this wasn’t an issue. Usually heat does aggravate my POTS and I am not able to tolerate being in a hot tub or sauna for more than a few minutes. Luckily I was the only one there, so I turned off the sauna and sat in the residual heat for 15 minutes at a time. This felt amazing, not like usual. I ended the night by grabbing some dinner at the resort restaurant.

Thursday. I woke up at 5am to the sound of the waves crashing on the shore. As usual, I was feeling heavy and drained upon waking. The feeling resolves within 2 hours and by 7am I was in the gym to do my physio exercises. These are quite gentle. I felt so excited I ended up doing some lat pulls (18lbs) and squats (25lbs) too. My first proper workout in a long time. Uh oh. What was I thinking. I shouldn’t have done that. I went back to my room and rested for several hours. My POTS was acting up so I had some coconut water, gatorade, and potato chips. I was feeling better by 3pm, when I went to my spa booking. They had a tepid mineral pool, a hot tub, a sauna, and cold showers. While I was nervous when I initially booked this, having had the sauna and hot tub experience the night prior, I was feeling much more confident. I spent 2 hours here and tolerated it fine (even staying in the sauna at full heat for up to 6 minutes at a time!)

Then I took a shower and went to my dinner booking, a 9 course tasting menu. They took their sweet time bringing out the courses. I ended up being there for 3 hours just sitting at my table reading and eating. This was somehow the most exhausting part of my day.

Friday. I woke up at 5am again. Those waves really get loud around this time. As this was my check out day, I spent some time getting my stuff together but I felt compelled to go to the gym again. So far, there were no ill effects from the previous gym sesison (and I usually crash the following morning after any activity), so I felt a bit better about it. However, my HRV was lower and my stability score on Visible was 2. This did not match the way I was feeling. Maybe I was feeling some kind of pressure to make the most of my vacation. Nevertheless, I was in the gym by 7:30am. Again, I told myself I would only do gentle physio exercises but got excited and did more because I was just feeling so good.

By this point, I knew I was going to be so sore. I spent more time at the pool, alternating between the hot tub, the pool (just sitting in it, I can’t even swim anyway), and sauna. This time I also used the cold shower because hey, I can handle it now apparently! After 1.5 hours, I went back to my room, grabbed my bags, checked out, and went back to the spa for my RMT booking. The massage was incredible and I felt amazing. The RMT put so much oil in my hair that I ended up using the spa shower to wash my hair and then blow dried it before leaving. Washing my hair is usually such a strenuous task I was surprised I did it with little effort.

Afterwards, I grabbed my heavy bags from reception and started on my long journey home. I got confused about buses and had to walk 1.3km carrying my bags at one point. I missed the boat and had to get on the next one. My second-to-last bus home was crowded and my POTS was acting up again. I asked if anyone would be willing to give me a seat. Nobody answered. They just glared. I stumbled off the bus in the middle of nowhere and took some meds before calling an Uber the rest of the way home. The whole trip back took 7 hours and I was exhausted. When I got home I just fell asleep and I slept for 9 hours.

Saturday (today). I slept in. Woke up late. I’m so sore all over, but not necessarily in a bad way. It feels kinda good. I can’t believe I had 2 proper workouts on top of that horrible 20 minute walk carrying 25lbs. My feet are blistered and I have ingrown toenails. (Does anybody else get ingrowns super easily? What is up with that??) I have been resting in bed all day. I don’t think I would call this a crash though. I’m just tired. I don’t feel ill or uncomfortable. It’s nice laying in bed today.

Thoughts.
I can’t believe how much I have been doing. 2 months ago, it would have been inconceivable for me to be meeting up with friends, going to the occasional class, and even taking a trip where I worked out in the gym with weights. I struggled enough going grocery shopping. All this is simply absurd. I obviously need to remind myself that just because I’m feeling good doesn’t mean I should push myself. But I am so grateful that I am able to do all these things.

My skin has also been amazing. It really suffers when I get too much sun, but otherwise my skin has been the clearest it has been in a long time. My rashes are almost entirely gone and my acne is mild. Even the constant contact dermatitis I usually have on my fingers from soaps and chemicals is very very mild now. All of this despite eating restaurant food for a few days, which usually wreaks havoc on my system from days to weeks. I only experienced mild GI symptoms from it.

Overall, I feel confident at this point that I can say that I have gone from moderate ME to mild ME as a result of these treatments. I can only hope that this effect will continue.

AI SUMMARY
I’ve had four therapy sessions so far. Last week was my final work shift, and for the first time, I didn’t crash right after — though I may have just delayed it by going to class and dinner. I ended up crashing that night, but it was mild: I stayed home for two days but could still care for myself. I was scared it meant a setback, but I recovered quickly.

The next treatment took longer to kick in, but by Monday I was well enough to take an exam and see a friend. I cleaned on Tuesday, then left for a mini vacation Wednesday. Travel was long and strenuous, but I tolerated it well. I used the sauna and hot tub, did two gym sessions with weights, and even handled cold showers — things I couldn’t have done a month ago. The trip home was brutal and exhausting, but I didn’t fully crash.

Today I’m sore but not ill — just resting. I can’t believe how much I’ve been doing. Two months ago, this would’ve been impossible. I think I’ve moved from moderate to mild ME. I just hope the progress holds.

 

[Wayne]

I can’t believe how much I’ve been doing. Two months ago, this would’ve been impossible. I think I’

Hi @stellaluna -- Thanks for the update. I have to say, your improvement(s) are impressive to me, because they're not just for a day or a week. The consistency you're experiencing is truly encouraging, and I think your cautious optimism is valid. Sounds like something foundational is shifting. With therapies that I think will become more and more common (and accepted) as time goes by. And as people like you share their experiences. Congratulations on your improvements!

 

[Dysfunkion]

It can also as you improve start to get harder to tell when you're slipping into the grips of PEM. For me if I feel a specific kind of malaise in the background, everything feels just a bit more dull and unappealing, and an increase in head/sinus pressure vaguely after doing a lot then that's when it's time to do almost nothing for a day or so. Maybe a smaller walk if being outside isn't too stressful at the time.

--

On RLT though I decided this morning to try it on my stomach area, I started at 45 seconds. and this wasn't a head/neck RLT day. The start up reaction was almost the same as what happened first with the head/neck Arms and legs still do just about nothing. So my benefits and reactions to combo near infrared RLT are in fact local to the area applied with systemic reactions that are in line with where reactions can spread from when activated by other things too. I'm going to continue this on an alternating schedule of 2 minutes head/neck on one day and 45 seconds on stomach area another.

 

[stellaluna]

It can also as you improve start to get harder to tell when you're slipping into the grips of PEM. For me if I feel a specific kind of malaise in the background, everything feels just a bit more dull and unappealing, and an increase in head/sinus pressure vaguely after doing a lot then that's when it's time to do almost nothing for a day or so. Maybe a smaller walk if being outside isn't too stressful at the time.

--

On RLT though I decided this morning to try it on my stomach area, I started at 45 seconds. and this wasn't a head/neck RLT day. The start up reaction was almost the same as what happened first with the head/neck Arms and legs still do just about nothing. So my benefits and reactions to combo near infrared RLT are in fact local to the area applied with systemic reactions that are in line with where reactions can spread from when activated by other things too. I'm going to continue this on an alternating schedule of 2 minutes head/neck on one day and 45 seconds on stomach area another.

Interesting. Thanks for letting me know!

I never had any adverse reactions from it. The first time I did full body bed for 20 minutes and 30 minutes for each appointment thereafter. I did try head and neck RLT (no infrared) as an adjunct, which seems to help my skin but I haven’t noticed any additional systemix benefit from that. Makes me wonder about specific mechanisms

 

[Dysfunkion]

Interesting. Thanks for letting me know!

I never had any adverse reactions from it. The first time I did full body bed for 20 minutes and 30 minutes for each appointment thereafter. I did try head and neck RLT (no infrared) as an adjunct, which seems to help my skin but I haven’t noticed any additional systemix benefit from that. Makes me wonder about specific mechanisms

I'm not noticing anything here either now after some days of using it in the new areas. I am much more exhausted right now and still seem to be coming out of being sick recently along with it constantly being hot/humid so it's hard to tell where the exhaustion is coming from. The RLT now just seems to help keep things clear and online in my brain, everything is just more functional at a baseline.