Recurrent cold like virus and downstream effects

[ljimbo423]

Big thanks to everyone, lots of suggestions there and formulating a plan. Will see how it goes, it takes time testing various approaches as you cant introduce too many changes at once otherwise it's difficult to know what worked and what didnt.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Mary]

thanks, this sounds very similar to me. A bit of exertion in the day, such as doing some DIY, or getting tired, or stressed and it comes right back again. I had not heard of andrographis, thanks for the suggestion. It seems similar to astragulus in that it appears to be a th1 stimulant.

I did try astragalus several years ago and it never did much for me. I was taking Echinacea when I got sick, and it helped a little, but I had to take a lot of it, and still would get just as sick the next time. But with the andrographis, I'm not getting nearly as sick. Whew! (still seems to good to be true )

 

[pcmenten]

Have you considered a possible enterovirus infection? Search for the Enterovirus Foundation website and scan the list of symptoms.

 

[asymmetry]

My teeth are rotting away, but luckily not hurting (everything crossed). I am pretty bad lately, since last year when I had a brain problem and ended up in hospital for almost a week, only to be sent home tested but untreated, and ended up being referred to mental health. I don't think my problems are mental at all, but who knows?

I can't do the intellectual posts I used to do, and have no idea whether I will be able to again.

All happened 6 months before retirement...

sorry to hear this.
I guess you know about CoQ10 for gums, and have you seen this product?
Also, have you ever tried one of the NRI meds?

 

[asymmetry]

I did try astragalus several years ago and it never did much for me. I was taking Echinacea when I got sick, and it helped a little, but I had to take a lot of it, and still would get just as sick the next time. But with the andrographis, I'm not getting nearly as sick. Whew! (still seems to good to be true )

really! that's very interesting. I had tried astragulus and could notice I felt different, but it didnt seem to speed up recovery from bugs. I shall try this then!

 

[asymmetry]

Have you considered a possible enterovirus infection? Search for the Enterovirus Foundation website and scan the list of symptoms.

thanks - that's quite a wide list of symptoms. I recognise a lot of them. Antiviral treatment isn't very well established here in the UK.

 

[ljimbo423]

Hi @MeSci - Have you seen this post? The guy that posted it had a jaw infection that caused his cfs. The odd thing is, it caused no pain, he only found it through extensive testing.

He got rid of the infection with surgery and his cfs with it! Yet another story of a hidden bacterial infection leaking lipopolysaccharides into the bloodstream causing cfs, very similar to leaky gut, I believe.

The toxins from these bacteria, leech out of the site and essentially poison your blood.

LINK

 

[ukxmrv]

thanks - that's quite a wide list of symptoms. I recognise a lot of them. Antiviral treatment isn't very well established here in the UK.

It's something we used to have doctors with an expertise in. Dr Ramsay and his colleagues were interested in enterviruses for ME outbreaks like the one at the Royal Free Hospital.

In the late 80's there was a VP1 test used by Prof Mowbray at St Mary's in London. The only anti-viral we had back then was Amatadine. I was one of the patients who had a positive test.

Sadly, we lost most of the doctors with expertise in this area and that was before the modern antivirals were developed.

 

[asymmetry]

so, can any one tell me whether Candida (in the digestive system) is actually a recognised medical condition, or is it something that has been conjured up by internet populace and perpetuated ?

I think I've narrowed this down now. It definitely if I over do sugar, and also if I drink black tea. That combo can really seem to mess me up for a few days, starting the day after consumption. Disturbed sleep, anxiety, poor stools, feeling generally rubbish, itchy throat and ears(?) not sure if that's related.

 

[ljimbo423]

so, can any one tell me whether Candida (in the digestive system) is actually a recognised medical condition, or is it something that has been conjured up and perpetuated ?

Hello asymmetry - Candida is not usually recognized by mainstream medicine, although many functional medicine doctors do recognize it. What is way more common is small intestine bacterial overgrowth and dysbiosis, but it also shares the same issues with mainstream medicine.

They are both treated basically the same ways, with a low cab diet, probiotics and medicinal herbs like oil of oregano and berberine. I think the reason why you have bad reactions to black tea is because it's high in plant tannins, which kill both pathogenic bacteria and candida.

Plant tannins, like from black tea, also kill a very antibiotic resistant bacteria called pseudomonas aeruginosa. I know this because I had digestive testing done and I had high levels of this bacteria in my gut.

The test results I got included both antibiotic drugs it was sensitive to and antibiotic herbs it was sensitive to. It is very sensitive to plant tannins. Sugar will feed both candida and a bacterial overgrowth/dysbiosis. So eating sugar will cause them to multiply, increasing symptoms. Drinking black tea, because of it's plant tannins, will kill them off, causing symptoms from the toxins they release when they die. Make sense?

Jim

 

[ukxmrv]

so, can any one tell me whether Candida (in the digestive system) is actually a recognised medical condition, or is it something that has been conjured up by internet populace and perpetuated ?

I think I've narrowed this down now. It definitely if I over do sugar, and also if I drink black tea. That combo can really seem to mess me up for a few days, starting the day after consumption. Disturbed sleep, anxiety, poor stools, feeling generally rubbish, itchy throat and ears(?) not sure if that's related.

In the UK Candida is only recognised as a genuine chronic problem in immun compromised people i.e. those with HIV/AIDS. It's not officially recognised in people with ME as we are not judged in that category.

My personal experience was that there was a "candidia causes ME" craze in the late 80's. We had a local GP with an interest in ME and he was happy to prescribe anti-fungal drugs. We also did diets and took supplements. My local ME group didn't have any cures from this although those of us with recurrent infections like dandruff, thrush or athletes foot did benefit.

My own gut problems didn't improve on the drugs or the diet but unlike yourself I have no reactions to increasing sugar etc. It's eating things like whole grains and sulfurous veges that really set my stomach off.

 

[asymmetry]

Hello asymmetry - Candida is not usually recognized by mainstream medicine, although many functional medicine doctors do recognize it. What is way more common is small intestine bacterial overgrowth and dysbiosis, but it also shares the same issues with mainstream medicine.

They are both treated basically the same ways, with a low cab diet, probiotics and medicinal herbs like oil of oregano and berberine. I think the reason why you have bad reactions to black tea is because it's high in plant tannins, which kill both pathogenic bacteria and candida.

Plant tannins, like from black tea, also kill a very antibiotic resistant bacteria called pseudomonas aeruginosa. I know this because I had digestive testing done and I had high levels of this bacteria in my gut.

The test results I got included both antibiotic drugs it was sensitive to and antibiotic herbs it was sensitive to. It is very sensitive to plant tannins. Sugar will feed both candida and a bacterial overgrowth/dysbiosis. So eating sugar will cause them to multiply, increasing symptoms. Drinking black tea, because of it's plant tannins, will kill them off, causing symptoms from the toxins they release when they die. Make sense?

Jim

Hi Jim
Many thanks for this. Just to make sure I understand: is pathogenic bacteria a bad thing or a good thing?

And likewise, pseudomonas aeruginosa - are you saying this is a bad bacteria and something you dont want, but when you consume tannins this kills them off and the subsequent die off releases toxins ?

cheers
Ian

 

[asymmetry]

In the UK Candida is only recognised as a genuine chronic problem in immun compromised people i.e. those with HIV/AIDS. It's not officially recognised in people with ME as we are not judged in that category.

My personal experience was that there was a "candidia causes ME" craze in the late 80's. We had a local GP with an interest in ME and he was happy to prescribe anti-fungal drugs. We also did diets and took supplements. My local ME group didn't have any cures from this although those of us with recurrent infections like dandruff, thrush or athletes foot did benefit.

My own gut problems didn't improve on the drugs or the diet but unlike yourself I have no reactions to increasing sugar etc. It's eating things like whole grains and sulfurous veges that really set my stomach off.

hi, thanks for chipping in. That's interesting. I dont have a problem with sulfurous veg or grains, although I note if I lay off bread I will generally start to feel healthier.

Thanks for the history on candida there, as at the weekend I was having that "aha!" moment, which made me wonder if this was the cause of all my issues hence my question here about it being medically recognised.

With what Jim says above, I'm wondering how this action going on in the gut somehow manages to flick the anxiety and mood changes. I suspect this is where user Hips theory about inflammation comes in (being transmitted from the gut via the vagus nerve).

 

[ljimbo423]

Many thanks for this. Just to make sure I understand: is pathogenic bacteria a bad thing or a good thing?

Hi Ian- Glad to help in any way I can. Everyone has pathogenic bacteria or "bad" bacteria in the gut. It's usually kept under control by probiotic or "good" bacteria and not a problem, unless it overgrows for some reason. Once bad bacteria overgrows it is often very, very difficult to to get rid of and replace with good bacteria.

There are many reasons for bad bacteria in the gut to overgrow, the biggest one is antibiotics but also poor diet, a lot of stress etc. I took dozens of courses of antibiotics, had a very high sugar, low nutrient diet and tons of stress up until several years ago, that's how my good bacteria got wiped out and why the bad bacteria overgrew, causing all kinds of problems!

And likewise, pseudomonas aeruginosa - are you saying this is a bad bacteria and something you dont want, but when you consume tannins this kills them off and the subsequent die off releases toxins ?

Yes, Pseudomonas aeruginosa is a bad bacteria that is very resistant to antibiotics. That's why, even though I've taken dozens of courses of antibiotics for other things, the pseudomonas continued to overgrow and much of my good bacteria got wiped out because good bacteria are much more sensitive to antibiotics.

Yes, when I take plant tannins they kill the bad bacteria and they release a toxin called lipopolysaccharide (LPS). LPS cause a strong immune system reaction even at very small amounts. You mention anxiety in the post above. My anxiety levels have lowered, quite a bit from treating my gut. So for me, the connection between the gut and anxiety is very clear.

Jim

 

[asymmetry]

cheers Jim, this is very useful to hear your experience. You mentioned LPS before. I've got myself some decent probiotics now. I will try a few things, laying off black tea for sure and eliminate refined sugars for a while and see if I have any more acute episodes. thanks very much!

 

[ljimbo423]

Hey Ian- Glad to help. Sounds like a good plan of action! Hope you notice some improvements and figure a few things out.

Jim

 

[asymmetry]

Does any one have any views on whether wine (specifically red) would cause similar issues?