Recovered from ME/CFS after 30 years

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37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
I am 70 years old and have now essentially fully recovered from 30 years of ME/CFS. This was through Rebecca Tolin's online mind-body course Be Your Own Medicine. I can't recommend it highly enough. After 30 years of getting nowhere, I have my life back. Rebecca did an interview with me which is posted below. I receive no compensation from recommending her course; I simply hope that other people will find the success I have. Indeed, I met a number of people through the course with similar incredible stories to tell, not just those with ME/CFS, but also fibromyalgia and Long Covid. Please be open-mined about this- it has lots of scientific validated techniques presented in a very supportive and compassionate environment.

How Marilyn Beat 30 Years of CFS: Now Feeling Superb at 70! — REBECCA TOLIN | MIND-BODY & LIFE COACHING
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,770
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I am 70 years old and have now essentially fully recovered from 30 years of ME/CFS.

Hi @shastamax -- Thanks for sharing your remarkable recovery story--and welcome to the forum! :)

I lived in Ashland (OR) for many years, so I'm quite aware of the beautiful country you're surrounded by. And the special energy of the Mt. Shasta area as well. I can easily imagine you enjoying yourself immensely as you hike through those pristine areas again.

I read your full story, and many of the things you describe are things I've long believed myself. I don't want to paraphrase you, but I've long thought a big part of ME/CFS involves disrupted energy flow in the body. One of the early clues for me, was noticing how in almost every instance, ME/CFS sets in following some kind of stressful event. Whether that's an infection, a course of antibiotics, an accident, or extremely stressful life situations.

I've incorporated a fairly wide range of energetic and spiritual techniques in my own healing journey, achieving significant improvements along the way. (This mostly occurred from age 67-72). I understand they won't work for everybody, and that sort of gets to the gist of the conundrum people with ME/CFS face: What works for one person doesn't guarantee it's going to work for others, maybe not even one other.

Congratulations on persevering and achieving a level of health most on this board can only dream of. It's not that everyone here isn't persevering--we all are. It's just that many of us haven't been able to find the right combination of things that work for us. Unfortunately, even doing everything "right" doesn't guarantee better health. But perseverance has its own rewards. Never, ever give up is a philosophy I live by, and from what I’ve seen, it’s something most members here steadily (and courageously) adhere to as well.

I heard a spiritual quote recently that your story reminded me of: "Sometimes we look so intently at closed doors, we forget there are open ones too. And there are!" It looks like you found the open door(s) for yourself. I think we all have our own open doors waiting. Not that walking through them will necessarily bring full health recovery, but it may bring healing in other ways.

Thanks again for sharing your story. I look forward to hearing more. :)
 
Last edited:

ruben

Senior Member
Messages
378
We still surely need these blood tests with maximum detail and info, in order to establish the before and after changes. The changes that have brought about the "cure".
The lightning process to name one has been about years, but on one seems any wiser.
 
Messages
37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Hi @shastamax -- Thanks for sharing your remarkable recovery story--and welcome to the forum! :)

I lived in Ashland (OR) for many years, so I'm quite aware of the beautiful country you're surrounded by. And the special energy of the Mt. Shasta area as well. I can easily imagine you enjoying yourself immensely as you hike through those pristine areas again.

I read your full story, and many of the things you describe are things I've long believed myself. I don't want to paraphrase you, but I've long thought a big part of ME/CFS involves disrupted energy flow in the body. One of the early clues for me, was noticing how in almost every instance, ME/CFS sets in following some kind of stressful event. Whether that's an infection, a course of antibiotics, an accident, or extremely stressful life situations.

I've incorporated a fairly wide range of energetic and spiritual techniques in my own healing journey, achieving significant improvements along the way. (This mostly occurred from age 67-72). I understand they won't work for everybody, and that sort of gets to the gist of the conundrum people with ME/CFS face: What works for one person doesn't guarantee it's going to work for others, maybe not even one other.

Congratulations on persevering and achieving a level of health most on this board can only dream of. It's not that everyone here isn't persevering--we all are. It's just that many of us haven't been able to find the right combination of things that work for us. Unfortunately, even doing everything "right" doesn't guarantee better health. But perseverance has its own rewards. Never, ever give up is a philosophy I live by, and from what I’ve seen, it’s something most members here steadily (and courageously) adhere to as well.

I heard a spiritual quote recently that your story reminded me of: "Sometimes we look so intently at closed doors, we forget there are open ones too. And there are!" It looks like you found the open door(s) for yourself. I think we all have our own open doors waiting. Not that walking through them will necessarily bring full health recovery, but it may bring healing in other ways.

Thanks again for sharing your story. I look forward to hearing more. :)
Thanks for your thoughtful comments, former neighbor! Yes this does happen after stressful life events of one sort or another. In my case I met other students in the course through live Zoom chats with their own amazing stories to tell. I’m not saying this will help everyone, but I believe it has the potential to help a lot of people. Best wishes from the big volcano!
 
Messages
37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
We still surely need these blood tests with maximum detail and info, in order to establish the before and after changes. The changes that have brought about the "cure".
I don’t believe blood tests are needed. The bottom line is what amount of activity is comfortable, and for me that change has been huge.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,770
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I copied and pasted the BYOM testimonials on Rebecca Tolin's website, and asked AI to summarize them. I then asked it to compare it with other programs that are not favorably viewed (to say the least) by many people with ME/CFS. -- @ruben, I hear what you're saying about the Lightening Process.

I'm intrigued by the BYOM program. It has features my wife uses in her therapy work which includes Emotion Code, which then evolved into Body Code. It also has features of the spiritual path I follow, which often references fear we (often unconsciously) hold, and potential impacts of our emotional health on our physical health. @shastamax, I'd be curious what your take might be on the comparisons below. Thanks!

Compare the "Be Your Own Doctor" (BYOM) program to DNRS, Lightning Process, Gupta, and CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire. Mention any notable connections between the programs and the discredited treatments of GET and psychological model of Simon Wesseley. How does BYOM stand apart from them (if it does), and where it's more in line with the philosophy and perspectives of the ME/CFS community at large (if it is).

Here’s a concise comparison that addresses:​
  • Key features of each program
  • Any connection to GET or Wessely’s psychosocial model
  • How Be Your Own Medicine (BYOM) differs
  • Where BYOM may be more in line with ME/CFS patient perspectives

🧭 Comparison: BYOM vs. Other Popular Recovery Programs in the ME/CFS Community

🔹 1. Tone and Philosophy: Compassionate vs. Prescriptive
  • BYOM (Rebecca Tolin):
    Gentle, emotionally attuned, and self-paced. Focuses on creating safety in the nervous system without forcing outcomes. No mantras, scripts, or quotas—just finding what soothes you. Emphasizes joy, creativity, and emotional honesty.
  • DNRS:
    Structured, daily repetition of specific “rounds” and affirmations. Often criticized for being rigid and emotionally bypassing. Participants are advised not to talk about symptoms—a rule many with trauma histories find distressing.
  • Lightning Process (LP):
    Even more prescriptive. Often includes scripted language, performance-style coaching, and insistence on “choice” over symptoms. Linked to pressure, performance, and even blame.
  • Gupta Program:
    Somewhat softer than DNRS or LP, but still structured. Uses specific “interrupt” routines and visualizations. Emphasis is on breaking neural loops rather than emotional integration.
  • CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire:
    Milder in tone, but still prescriptive. Offers pacing advice, nervous system education, and belief-based practices. Less pushy than LP/DNRS, but still structured in delivery.

🔹 2. Emotional Inclusion: Integration vs. Suppression
  • BYOM:
    Encourages emotional exploration. Focuses on befriending emotions like grief, rage, and fear. Promotes expressive writing, somatic tracking, and self-compassion—tools often lacking in other programs.
  • DNRS / LP:
    Emotions often reframed as “negative thought loops” to be replaced. Traumatized participants report feeling shamed or dismissed.
  • Gupta:
    Traditionally focused on symptom retraining. Emotional inclusion has increased in recent versions, but processing is still secondary to retraining.
  • CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire:
    Includes some emotional context but tends to frame symptoms as dysregulated responses to stress—not as expressions of emotional truth to be fully felt.

🔹 3. Links to GET or Psychosocial Models (e.g., Simon Wessely)
  • BYOM:
    No ties to GET or Wessely. Explicitly rejects prescriptive pacing or graded exercise. Treats PEM as a nervous system pattern—not as something to push through, but something to gently reframe through safety and emotional resolution.
  • DNRS:
    No direct ties to Wessely, but the structure often mirrors CBT/GET thinking—"you can rewire this if you follow the steps." Many see this as a modernized form of the biopsychosocial model.
  • Lightning Process:
    Directly associated with Wessely’s psychosocial model
    in the UK. Promotes the idea that symptoms are maintained by belief and behavior. Has faced media investigation and ethical concerns, particularly when applied to children with ME/CFS.
  • Gupta Program:
    Initially cited Simon Wessely’s work
    in the mid-2000s. Although it now presents as neuroscience-based, the early influence of the psychosocial model still lingers for many patients.
  • CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire:
    Treads a middle ground. Doesn’t cite Wessely, but its model still downplays biomedical complexity, framing CFS as a functional brain-body feedback loop. It can feel too simplistic for those who experience ME/CFS as deeply physiological.

🔹 4. Individualization: Flexible vs. Formulaic
  • BYOM:
    Highly individualized. No “one right way.” Participants are encouraged to explore what feels safe, restorative, and aligned with their own intuition. Recovery is supported, not demanded.
  • DNRS / LP:
    Highly formulaic. Success is said to depend on repetition, compliance, and avoiding symptom talk. This can feel rigid and disempowering, especially for fluctuating illnesses like ME/CFS.
  • Gupta:
    Structured, though newer versions emphasize pacing and personalization. Still largely a top-down system, with daily routine and thought retraining exercises.
  • CFS Recovery:
    Offers “choose-your-own-pace” guidance, but with an underlying formula. Less emphasis on trauma or emotional complexity, more on lifestyle and belief change.

✅ How BYOM Aligns with the Broader ME/CFS Community
  • Emphasizes compassion over compliance
  • Validates the reality of PEM and does not pressure people to push through it
  • Allows for complexity—biomedical, emotional, and spiritual
  • Avoids all ties to GET, CBT-based treatment, or the Wessely school of thought
  • Many participants are trauma-aware, and the course integrates nervous system science with emotional healing
  • Encourages participants to define healing on their own terms, not according to metrics or productivity.
 
Last edited:
Messages
37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
I copied and pasted the BYOM testimonials on Rebecca Tolin's website, and asked AI to summarize them. I then asked it to compare it with other programs that are not favorably viewed (to say the least) by many people with ME/CFS. -- @ruben, I hear what you're saying about the Lightening Process.

I'm intrigued by the BYOM program. It has features my wife uses in her therapy work which includes Emotion Code, which then evolved into Body Code. It also has features of the spiritual path I follow, which often references fear we (often unconsciously) hold, and potential impacts of our emotional health on our physical health. @shastamax, I'd be curious what your take might be on the comparisons below. Thanks!

Compare the "Be Your Own Doctor" (BYOM) program to DNRS, Lightning Process, Gupta, and CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire. Mention any notable connections between the programs and the discredited treatments of GET and psychological model of Simon Wesseley. How does BYOM stand apart from them (if it does), and where it's more in line with the philosophy and perspectives of the ME/CFS community at large (if it is).

Here’s a concise comparison that addresses:​
  • Key features of each program
  • Any connection to GET or Wessely’s psychosocial model
  • How Be Your Own Medicine (BYOM) differs
  • Where BYOM may be more in line with ME/CFS patient perspectives

🧭 Comparison: BYOM vs. Other Popular Recovery Programs in the ME/CFS Community

🔹 1. Tone and Philosophy: Compassionate vs. Prescriptive
  • BYOM (Rebecca Tolin):
    Gentle, emotionally attuned, and self-paced. Focuses on creating safety in the nervous system without forcing outcomes. No mantras, scripts, or quotas—just finding what soothes you. Emphasizes joy, creativity, and emotional honesty.
  • DNRS:
    Structured, daily repetition of specific “rounds” and affirmations. Often criticized for being rigid and emotionally bypassing. Participants are advised not to talk about symptoms—a rule many with trauma histories find distressing.
  • Lightning Process (LP):
    Even more prescriptive. Often includes scripted language, performance-style coaching, and insistence on “choice” over symptoms. Linked to pressure, performance, and even blame.
  • Gupta Program:
    Somewhat softer than DNRS or LP, but still structured. Uses specific “interrupt” routines and visualizations. Emphasis is on breaking neural loops rather than emotional integration.
  • CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire:
    Milder in tone, but still prescriptive. Offers pacing advice, nervous system education, and belief-based practices. Less pushy than LP/DNRS, but still structured in delivery.

🔹 2. Emotional Inclusion: Integration vs. Suppression
  • BYOM:
    Encourages emotional exploration. Focuses on befriending emotions like grief, rage, and fear. Promotes expressive writing, somatic tracking, and self-compassion—tools often lacking in other programs.
  • DNRS / LP:
    Emotions often reframed as “negative thought loops” to be replaced. Traumatized participants report feeling shamed or dismissed.
  • Gupta:
    Traditionally focused on symptom retraining. Emotional inclusion has increased in recent versions, but processing is still secondary to retraining.
  • CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire:
    Includes some emotional context but tends to frame symptoms as dysregulated responses to stress—not as expressions of emotional truth to be fully felt.

🔹 3. Links to GET or Psychosocial Models (e.g., Simon Wessely)
  • BYOM:
    No ties to GET or Wessely. Explicitly rejects prescriptive pacing or graded exercise. Treats PEM as a nervous system pattern—not as something to push through, but something to gently reframe through safety and emotional resolution.
  • DNRS:
    No direct ties to Wessely, but the structure often mirrors CBT/GET thinking—"you can rewire this if you follow the steps." Many see this as a modernized form of the biopsychosocial model.
  • Lightning Process:
    Directly associated with Wessely’s psychosocial model
    in the UK. Promotes the idea that symptoms are maintained by belief and behavior. Has faced media investigation and ethical concerns, particularly when applied to children with ME/CFS.
  • Gupta Program:
    Initially cited Simon Wessely’s work
    in the mid-2000s. Although it now presents as neuroscience-based, the early influence of the psychosocial model still lingers for many patients.
  • CFS Recovery / ANS Rewire:
    Treads a middle ground. Doesn’t cite Wessely, but its model still downplays biomedical complexity, framing CFS as a functional brain-body feedback loop. It can feel too simplistic for those who experience ME/CFS as deeply physiological.

🔹 4. Individualization: Flexible vs. Formulaic
  • BYOM:
    Highly individualized. No “one right way.” Participants are encouraged to explore what feels safe, restorative, and aligned with their own intuition. Recovery is supported, not demanded.
  • DNRS / LP:
    Highly formulaic. Success is said to depend on repetition, compliance, and avoiding symptom talk. This can feel rigid and disempowering, especially for fluctuating illnesses like ME/CFS.
  • Gupta:
    Structured, though newer versions emphasize pacing and personalization. Still largely a top-down system, with daily routine and thought retraining exercises.
  • CFS Recovery:
    Offers “choose-your-own-pace” guidance, but with an underlying formula. Less emphasis on trauma or emotional complexity, more on lifestyle and belief change.

✅ How BYOM Aligns with the Broader ME/CFS Community
  • Emphasizes compassion over compliance
  • Validates the reality of PEM and does not pressure people to push through it
  • Allows for complexity—biomedical, emotional, and spiritual
  • Avoids all ties to GET, CBT-based treatment, or the Wessely school of thought
  • Many participants are trauma-aware, and the course integrates nervous system science with emotional healing
  • Encourages participants to define healing on their own terms, not according to metrics or productivity.
Wayne, I can only comment on programs I haven’t tried. I did do Gupta diligently for 6 months and saw zero improvement, whereas in 6 months BYOM had given me my life back.
 

andyguitar

Senior Member
Messages
6,849
Location
South east England
Thanks for telling us about your path to better health @shastamax and for the link to Rebecca Tolin's work. I saw mention of "Breath Work" and have also seen mention of the Wim Hof method. Just wondering if you did breath work and/or used the Wim Hof method during your time getting help from Rebecca Tolin.
 
Messages
37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Thanks for telling us about your path to better health @shastamax and for the link to Rebecca Tolin's work. I saw mention of "Breath Work" and have also seen mention of the Wim Hof method. Just wondering if you did breath work and/or used the Wim Hof method during your time getting help from Rebecca Tolin.
I used calming breath work as well as the stimulating box breathing but not Wim Hof. However, that technique is part of the Free From Fatigue part of the course.
 

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
1,753
Location
small town midwest
Was this the first time you had tried this sort of program? If so, was it different from others? Have you done other types of breathing and ever found them helpful?
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,770
Location
Ashland, Oregon
1. Dan Moricoli’s ME/CFS Recovery and Community Map
Dan Moricoli, now in his 70s, has achieved near-complete recovery from a severe case of ME/CFS (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) that began in 2006. Formerly a high-energy businessman and adventurer, Dan’s life was drastically altered when he became nearly comatose after a fishing trip, with symptoms including slurred speech, myoclonic jerks, extreme fatigue, and disrupted temperature regulation.
Key Recovery Elements:
  • Medical Guidance: Dan worked closely with ME/CFS specialist Dr. Nancy Klimas. A critical turning point came when a specialized exercise test revealed the heart rate threshold at which his body switched to anaerobic metabolism—allowing him to pace his activities safely.
  • Heart Rate-Based Pacing: His recovery began with an extremely gentle routine—walking five minutes twice a day, with long rest periods. Using a heart rate monitor, he ensured he never overexerted himself. Over months and years, he very gradually increased activity, eventually returning to near-normal physical function.
  • Yoga and Meditation: The final stages of his recovery were aided by careful yoga and mindfulness practice. These practices helped him reconnect with his body, reduce stress, and find mental and emotional balance. He later created a website, Yoga on the Path, to help others with chronic illness incorporate similar practices.
  • Mindset of Acceptance: Unlike many, Dan accepted his illness early on without resistance or bitterness. He believes this mindset helped prevent further immune system damage and contributed to his recovery.
  • Online Contributions: Dan also founded the CFS Knowledge Center and ME/CFS Community, offering support and resources. His most recent project is a global ME/CFS Community Map, enabling people with ME/CFS to connect and support one another locally and globally.
Now:
At 75, Dan is about 95% recovered. He exercises regularly, works on video production, travels, and continues to pace himself when needed. He still sees ME/CFS as part of his life but lives in harmony with it.
Final Insights:
Dan considers ME/CFS one of the greatest gifts of his life, having forced him to slow down, reflect, and embrace a more balanced, mindful lifestyle. His story emphasizes the power of pacing, self-awareness, mind-body practices, and community in living with or recovering from chronic illness.

2. Kyle McNease’s Severe ME/CFS Recovery from Heavy Metal Toxicity
Kyle McNease’s recovery from ME/CFS is a harrowing and ultimately inspiring journey from the brink of death to full reintegration into life. Once an athletic Oxford student, Kyle became catastrophically ill with ME/CFS: emaciated, light-sensitive, nearly nonverbal, and plagued by infections, neurological symptoms, and multi-system dysfunction. His condition was so severe that his parents were forced to make life-or-death decisions regarding further care.

Root Causes and Diagnosis
After years of failed diagnoses, a breakthrough came from a Colorado toxicologist who uncovered severe heavy metal toxicity—arsenic and another rare metal—from Kyle’s rural upbringing and barn renovation exposure. Instead of excreting toxins, his body had been storing them, leading to a cascading collapse of immune, neurological, hormonal, and detoxification systems.
He was also positive for multiple infections (EBV, CMV, HHV-6, Lyme, candida), and suffered from:
  • Orthostatic intolerance
  • Low blood volume
  • Hormonal failure (transient Addison’s disease, low testosterone, thyroid dysfunction)
  • Sleep issues
  • Bell’s palsy
  • Severe mitochondrial energy dysfunction
Genetic testing revealed poor detox/methylation capacity, likely exacerbating his toxic overload.

Treatment and Recovery
Kyle began a chelation-based detox protocol with expert supervision. The initial response was extreme fatigue—nearly 24-hour sleep cycles—followed by rapid, almost miraculous recovery. Within 6 months, he was running sprints, and by one year, a straight-A student again.
What Helped:
  • Chelation therapy (carefully supervised)
  • Antiviral treatment: valacyclovir helped, acyclovir did not
  • IV and oral antibiotics for bacterial infections
  • Antifungals: Questran, Diflucan
  • Hormonal therapies: Cortef (hydrocortisone), testosterone replacement, thyroid support
  • IV fluids and electrolytes for orthostatic intolerance
  • Mitochondrial support: ribose, creatine, B12, Myers cocktails
  • Diet experimentation, probiotics
  • Medications: Klonopin (for calming CNS), modafinil (for wakefulness), Zoloft, LDN, CBD oil
  • Mind-body work: prayer, meditation, reframing suffering, visualization, structured positivity
He emphasized that each intervention had its place in stabilizing different systems and that recovery was a multi-pronged, personalized, and highly monitored process.

Kyle Today
Now married with a child and an academic career, Kyle lives a full life. He runs, travels, teaches, and contributes meaningfully to both science and the ME/CFS community. While he acknowledges residual vulnerabilities (e.g., needing IV fluids during high stress), he’s functionally recovered.

Commentary
Kyle McNease’s story is a powerful case study of just how multi-systemic, individually varied, and potentially recoverable ME/CFS can be in certain cases—especially when root causes like toxic exposures are identified. Several takeaways stand out:
  • Recovery is possible, even from extreme states – though rare, Kyle’s return to full functionality reminds us to hold space for hope.
  • ME/CFS is not one disease – Kyle’s case illustrates the danger of “siloing” patients by single-cause theories. His recovery came through addressing detoxification, infection, hormonal balance, cardiovascular instability, and mind-body integration.
  • Treatment must be personalized – No one-size-fits-all. What helped Kyle (e.g., testosterone, modafinil, Klonopin) might hurt someone else. Recovery required precision and constant adjustment.
  • Mindset matters – His mental strategy of scheduling negativity, watching comedy, and spiritual connection suggests psychological resilience and reframing can be healing tools alongside biomedical treatment.
  • Community and advocacy are vital – Kyle credits his recovery in large part to his parents’ persistence. He also calls for a more engaged physician community and a patient community willing to explore evidence-informed treatments now, not just await cures.
 
Messages
37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Was this the first time you had tried this sort of program? If so, was it different from others? Have you done other types of breathing and ever found them helpful?
This was the first time I tried this sort of program. I did Gupta, but that was at the time quite different with just one technique. I understand there are similar programs out there but I know little about them. Honestly, it’s hard to imagine a better one. People who have done similar programs talk about Rebecca being particularly compassionate. The breathing techniques I do were all learned through this program. I found the physiological sigh and box breathing particularly helpful.
 

andyguitar

Senior Member
Messages
6,849
Location
South east England
We still surely need these blood tests with maximum detail and info, in order to establish the before and after changes
Testing blood oxygen and carbon dioxide levels before and after a session of the breathing exercises would be interesting. In the longer term- say a couple of months after starting the therapy- checking endothelial function would be worth it.
 
Messages
37
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
The breathing exercises are for calming things down (activating the vagus nerve) or counteracting fatigue. Yes, that might be interesting. However, it seems the ME/CFS community is rather obsessed with medical tests. We don’t need medical tests to tell us we’ve recovered from the flu; we just know because we feel so much better. Likewise, I feel so much better and can do so much more- there is no need for any kind of medical testing.
 

ruben

Senior Member
Messages
378
But what about when people know they fit the basic criteria for ME/CFS, but a doctor tells you he sees no reason why you shouldn't work. And the reality is you want to lay about all day.
 
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