Really need you guys opinion re: upsetting doctor situation!!!

[Tired of being sick]

The way I see it is you can never fully trust a private NP Doctor who charges more than $80 a visit..
This is what Specialists are roughly paid in main stream medicine by participating insurance companies..

And if she got mad,sorry to break it to you but money is her real passion..

You see, we can be easily drawn in to false hope because lets face it,
CFS/ME sufferers are the most medically DESPERATE people in the entire world
I see a boat load of bogus threads on this sight just about every time I log on..
And it makes me want to cry knowing the damage it is causing for CFS/ME's credibility and I'm a man!

Now what do you think curious doctors out there who want to give CFS/ME an honest shot will think about CFS/ME when he or she comes across this website and sees a thread about a part time doctor/full time carpenter can heal CFS/ME just by relieving pressure off of one nerve

or see a televangelist you tube video claiming to cure a bed ridden lady of CFS/ME just by touching her on forehead then say by the power in me in the name of the almighty father almighty dollar, you're healed!!????

You know what they'll do and I don't even have to say it.......

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Butydoc Thank you and I totally understand your perspective and thus far, all of my doctors know all of the meds and supplements that I am taking. When I went up to OMI, I brought Dr. K four years of med records and a list of everything I am taking so when he gives me an anti-viral next week (assuming that is his plan) he knows everything I am on.

My ND also knows everything I am taking and I feel like she is very solid as far as med interactions and when she has a concern (like when I started Florinef) she was Googling it herself to find the answers. Whatever a/v I end up on, I will tell her so she will know.

In this regard, my cardiologist is the one who knows nothing about supplements and when I've tried to tell her, she just says it is out of her scope and she cannot endorse or give any opinion on them. So often it is my ND who verifies that everything is okay.

I feel from today that the issue is more her ego/personality taking over than her clinical skill. If I doubted her clinical skill, I would be out the door (regardless of the fact that she is doing my disability paperwork) as the last thing on earth that I want to do is anything that could make myself worse.

 

[Gingergrrl]

The way I see it is you can never fully trust a private NP Doctor who charges more than $80 a visit.. This is what Specialists are roughly paid in main stream medicine by participating insurance companies.. And if she got mad,sorry to break it to you but money is her real passion..

@Tired of being sick I actually don't think her reaction has anything to do with money as in the past she has spent a significant amount of time ordering test kits for me, answering my e-mails, doing my disability forms and never paid extra for any of these things in spite of me offering repeatedly. In addition my step-daughter had a school project needing to interview a doctor and she gladly did this for free (again with me offering to pay and her declining.)

I don't know of any doctor (in any specialty) charging less than $80 per visit and she charges less than my endocrinologist or OMI. I really do not think today had anything to do with money, and it was about ego/personality issues or feeling threatened like what @Dreambirdie said. At least that is my take on it.

 

[SOC]

@Gingergrrl43,
Did she know that you were going to see Dr Kaufman, or is this the first she heard of it? It sounds like she had an ego or territory problem. She probably felt that she was handling your health perfectly and was shocked and offended that you went to another doctor for things she was treating you for already (in her mind, anyway). She might have felt that you were saying you don't trust her.

Her behavior was completely unacceptable and unprofessional. That said, if it was the first time she'd heard you were seeing Dr Kaufman, she may have been caught off guard and reacted without thinking carefully. It might be possible, if you really want to stay with her, to pretend the whole event never happened. She'll have time to calm down and present a more sensible face by the next time you see her. You might want to avoid discussing your treatment with Dr K with her other than to tell her what meds you are taking (because of potential drug interactions). She can save her ego by not thinking about your other doc and just treating you for things that don't come under Dr K's purview. My guess is that if you try to discuss this event with her, the situation will only get worse. I doubt she's going to admit her poor behavior, and you'll end up in tears again.

If it were me, I would never see her again. I'm with your husband on this one. She said she had done things she didn't do, and said she didn't do things she did. She essentially blamed you rather than take responsibility for her own actions. That is not a healthy relationship. I suspect you thought of her as a sort of friend. She's not your friend, she's a doctor who knows how to use a friendly professional manner to make her patients comfortable. Big difference.

I would not be able to trust her after that experience. If you think you can, I suggest you try not to push her buttons any further by telling her all your other doctor is doing for you and how much better you feel for his treatment. Give her her own little territory in your health world, let her be in control of that part. Keep the doctors and treatments separate. I don't tell my PCP anything about my specialist treatments, other than to update my medication lists. She's happy not to think about any of that or pass judgement on it either way. In fact, she really doesn't want to know. She deals with my routine medical stuff and that's all.

Many doctors have a very inflated egos. You either tolerate that and tiptoe around their sensitivities, or you find a doc who doesn't have an ego problem.

 

[Tired of being sick]

Ok,now I see..

This is her baby...

 

[Gingergrrl]

@SOC, To answer some of your questions, my ND actually DID know that I was going to OMI b/c I discussed it w/her as part of my decision making process. She thought it was a great idea and she wrote a summary of her treatment that she faxed to them. So, I did not catch her off guard and she was planning to talk about it at our appt today.

In addition, I never said a word about Dr. K being great or his treatment (b/c he has not yet started me on any treatment!) He did make a suggestion re: my Atenolol dose (prescribed by my cardiologist) but I never even got to tell her! All I did was hand her a copy of what tests he ran (which I had already sent her by e-mail b/c she had said she wanted to see them.) I was really blind-sided by her reaction b/c she knew I saw him and said she supported it (as they would both be treating my EBV and what ever else I may have from different angles.)

I agree with you that trying to discuss things would probably make it worse although maybe in a few weeks at my appt, we will both be calmer and I will give it a try. If she reacts badly a second time, I will most likely be done although I am hesitant as I said earlier b/c she is one of two doctors doing my short-term disability forms and they need new info for me to get paid after Aug 1st so if I quit seeing her as a patient, she will not do my forms and then I am just screwing myself over.

Lastly, I really did not view her as a "friend" although your question made me analyze this possibility. But when I really think about it, I have such a clear understanding of professional boundaries and dual relationships from my own career that I am pretty clear on these things. I did, however, view her as an incredibly honest and trustworthy doctor who was totally in my corner with helping me get better from ME/CFS and now that feeling is gone so I feel more lost and a bit more hopeless.

 

[xchocoholic]

I thought her first comment to you about not reading your email because she was on vacation indicated her frame of mind at that point. It's tough coming back to a stressful job after a much needed vacation whether you rested or played tourist.

I typically had a great deal of empathy towards my last integrative doctor because I saw how complicated my medical info was. The fact that she could look at multiple pages of labs and draw multiple conclusions that weren't apparent and remember my intolerances was very impressive. And all within 20-30 minutes.

I value a doctor's expertise and effectiveness over anything else. I'm assuming that my background in computers taught me to look for the most intelligent co-workers if you want something done right. Personalities or momentary arrogance were insignificant.
I stopped crying after the first year.

She's run quite a few tests for you and has helped you. I don't think she meant to upset you. You just caught her on an off day.
This was the first time she'd acted that way.

Tc ... x

 

[Gingergrrl]

I am getting so much feedback that I keep changing my mind re: what to do. I do agree with you @xchocoholic that I don't think she "meant" to upset me or planned it that way and it was out of character. This is why I am so conflicted. If someone is a jerk at my first appt, I am done. But when someone has been kind and patient for six months, I am more conflicted with what to do when they are suddenly different. That is why I did not impulsively storm out and finished the appt and booked a follow-up appt (and then came here to get feedback .)

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Gingergrrl43 I think the best thing you can do for yourself at this point is to give it rest. It's not a crisis that requires your immediate attention... like this guy is having--> You don't have to decide what to do tonight.

Take a breath, watch a movie, cut your toenails. Trust yourself and your inner knowing to work this out in time. When you are ready you will know what to do.

Goodnight. zzzzzz

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Dreambirdie You are correct and very wise. I will give the whole thing a rest and it is not a crisis like you said. It is good to remind myself of this sometimes.

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Gingergrrl43 I have been known to be an expert in obsessive over-thinking. I wish I hadn't wasted so much energy doing that over the years.

I learn wisdom from watching animals in nature. They are so much more wise than we humans are. Ask your dog, she'll tell ya. People got a lot to learn. Yup!

 

[Leopardtail]

Thanks guys and really good feedback and giving me a lot to think about. I definitely am not contacting her now while I am upset and will either wait until closer to or during the appt if I decide to go there.

She is treating me for more than just GI issues and in general is pretty well-rounded in her knowledge. The natural anti-virals that she had me on were honestly the best I had ever felt since CFS (but I stopped them due to GI issues and then completely de-compensated back to square one.) So she worked on my GI stuff for months and ordered all kinds of special test kits for me. Now my stomach is able to take the natural anti-virals again (almost back at the full dose) and I credit that to her. The last two days I have been able to drive which I have not done in months and I can only credit this to the natural anti-virals (b/c I have not started anything from Dr. K yet.) Granted you are sitting when you drive and I still get very short of breath w/walking or any exertion but I literally could not drive for months, so something is different.

Also, even though she said she endorses prescription av's (like Valtrex, Famvir, etc) I don't think she has any experience prescribing them herself as this is not her area of expertise. So I don't think she was holding out on me, I just think she uses other natural methods. She tried at the end to explain to me that she and Dr. K were on the same page but at that point the damage was done.

I think maybe she wanted to be the one to "solve" this herself whereas to me it takes a village and I am grateful to everyone for contributing their own piece of the puzzle. To me it is not a competition but maybe she viewed it that way?

Also, someone made a really good point to me (not in this thread) that she is doing paperwork for my short-term disability claim and they are requesting more info from her so if I abruptly stop seeing her, she will stop doing the paperwork, and the last thing I need is to screw myself over financially b/c of this.

I would be inclined to write to her and indicate your confusion regarding her opposition to the test having been done. I would ask for a clarification of her concerns regarding either the tests, or the involvement of the other doctor. Then see whether she indicates there still is a problem, and if so what it is. Doctors can have shitty days and snap like the rest of us.

 

[xchocoholic]

Hi @Gingergrrl43

Resting sounds good. But before I forget I wanted to say that imho doctors who are both brilliant and effective are tough to find. So I'd keep both.

I didn't meet my integrative doctor until I'd been ill for almost 20 years so I was shocked by everything she knew. But then I ran into all the controversy concerning this type of health care. I'm 58 yo and was raised to believe in traditional medicine so it's been confusing for me.

Luckily I met others who were also being treated by integrative or holistic doctors. And Medicare paid for my tests.

Good night. X

 

[brenda]

Hi @Gingergrrl43

Did you know that your ND was on vacation when you emailed her - twice?

If so then I would send her an apology for interrupting her holiday and continue with her at the moment as you need her for your claim and maybe things will work out. Yes she did behave badly, but if she is good, then in my books, everyone is allowed to make one mistake.

I empathise with those who have to deal with us, as we are so complicated and maybe sometimes being a pain the butt.

Anyway as DB says you don't have to do anything right now, it's not a crisis.

 

[WillowJ]

I did, however, view her as an incredibly honest and trustworthy doctor who was totally in my corner with helping me get better from ME/CFS and now that feeling is gone so I feel more lost and a bit more hopeless.

Sorry for that loss.

you have enough advice so just a hug

 

[Gingergrrl]

@brenda I did not know she was on vacation and I emailed her at her work address (not personal!) and did so b/c she had asked me to let her know what happened at OMI. She never saw or read the emails so it definitely did not interrupt her vacation.

The second email was one sentence and it was Mon when she was back in the office. There have been times when I did not send her copies of test results and she emailed me asking for them. So today I felt like I could not win!

I didn't feel like the email was the issue she reacted to (and I did not make a big deal of it w/her.) She reacted when she saw what I had been tested for and got really defensive and critical both of me and of another Dr who she doesn't even know.

I understand it better after discussing it w/you guys although as much as I want to let it go, it is still bothering me!

 

[Hanna]

@Gingergrrl43 , I think I would go to the next appointment, try to empty my head before, and be very receptive of what is going on. Try to "feel" her, in order to answer to the question if it "feels" right for you to continue to see her.
Maybe what has happened during your latest appointment was an "accident", maybe not. Some Doc are possessive and won't "share" their patient. Be aware, that doesn't help in building a complex treatment plan.

The second point is that your feeling may be distorted by the fact you "need" her to fill the social forms. Perhaps, that dictates an other strategy : try to finish the whole procedure with her without thinking too much about the future (if the whole stuff doesn't take months), and THEN, make your mind about what to do.

 

[xchocoholic]

My integrative doctor invited me to email her too but I never did. I decided I didn't want to bother her any more than I had to with my health problems. I was just happy that she took me as a patient and tried to help me. Most people are too lazy to take on a challenge nowadays.

About 9 years ago I had 26 diagnosises on a form for some lab work. The lab tech wasn't happy to see this.

Recently I was told that my list of diagnosises is 2 pages long.
And this list would be normal for an 80 year old. I'm 58.

Am I the only pwc who feels like a pita ? X

 

[NK17]

@Gingergrrl43 I agree completely with @Butydoc.

I would also suggest that you focus on the next visit, post labs results, with Dr. Kaufman and sort of put the issue with your ND on the back burner.

Certainly the way she reacted is neither fair to you as a patient, nor professional.

The very last thing you need is a toxic relationship with a doctor.

I understand that what we all need is a caring doctor and one that is close to where we live, unfortunately PWME rarely have such luck.

 

[Valentijn]

I can understand and forgive an ego problem, if the doctor can get over it.

But once a doctor had lied to me, that would be it. That's the part I found most disturbing: that she was willing to lie to protect her ego. If she did it to your face, she'll do it to her colleagues, to your other doctors, in your medical notes, and to the disability reviewers.

It might not be deliberate - maybe she lied to herself first, and believed what she was saying. But it still makes her untrustworthy, and she's in a position to cause a lot of damage.