Reaction to Exercise

Cort

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Bloating/Inflammation After Exercise

I've noticed for years that I tend to look bloated after exercise. For a while I wondered if I was just eating more because of I was feeling crappy after the post-exercise problems but I'm pretty sure that's not it now; after I get too much 'exercise' by body bloats up!

Does anyone else experience this or does anyone have an idea of what's going on?
 

dsdmom

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Exercise induced illness & other questions

I don't really know if I'm posting this is the right section since I haven't quite figured out this forum yet. So I apologize if this is not in the right place and hope the administrators will move it if need be.

I am just wondering if anybody else gets sick if they exercise. I find that in the past I would try to work out and do 'too much' I would immediately afterward feel awful as far as achy. And then without fail I would end up getting sick. Which would then mean I couldn't exercise again for a long time until I was well again. I have since learned that I can only do tiny amounts of activity without eliciting this response but I'm curious - does this happen to anybody else and does this point to immune dysfunction of some sort?

Another question I have is whether anybody else has lost the ability to sweat. I have been found to have autonomic neuropathy which explains this - just wondering if there are others on here with the same issues.

Also, I have major blood pooling in my legs and wear compression hose to help with this. Anybody else?

Last one - my stomach is such a mess that I am unable to take hardly any supplements. I get major chest pain/reflux and then awful gastritis and stomach pain. If anybody else has this issue, how do you handle taking supplements and has this ever gotten better for anybody?

Thanks!
 

lostinthedesert

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You will find that exercised induced illness is a common problem around here. It is usually referred to as PEM or PM for Post Exertional Malaise. Intolerance of supplements is a common problem for many different reasons and many folks also have circulatory and/or heart problems.

Do some reading around the various forums and you will find information and personal accounts related to all of these things.

Peace,
S
 
Exercise sickness/intolerance/post extertional malaise - not only is it common, but it is THE major distinguishing symptom of CFS. You can't have CFS without it.

I'm not sure what your autonomic thing is exactly, but many of us have problems with our blood pressure going lower when it should go higher, causing lightheadedness and fainting. Also problems with tolerating heat. Not being able to sweat.

The stomach problems can be due to low stomach acid, and/or food intolerances. You can try taking betaine hydrochloride with each meal, also digestive enzymes and probiotics. Between that and a gluten free, dairy free diet, my stomach and digestion are much improved. 80% of the immune system resides in the gut, so that is an important thing to have working properly.
 

dsdmom

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Thanks for the replies... I guess I had been under the impression that "post exertional malaise" only referred to being exhausted, not necessarily sick. Good to know this is 'normal' around here.

Has anybody else seen a neurologist along the way for the autonomic dysfunction? (blood pressure issues, sweating abnormalities, etc). Anybody get a nerve biopsy done?
 

dsdmom

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Exercise induced illness & other questions

I posted this elsewhere but guess it really belongs in the 'symptoms' category...

I am just wondering if anybody else gets sick if they exercise. I find that in the past I would try to work out and do 'too much' I would immediately afterward feel awful as far as achy. And then without fail I would end up getting sick. Which would then mean I couldn't exercise again for a long time until I was well again. I have since learned that I can only do tiny amounts of activity without eliciting this response but I'm curious - does this happen to anybody else and does this point to immune dysfunction of some sort?

Another question I have is whether anybody else has lost the ability to sweat. I have been found to have autonomic neuropathy which explains this - just wondering if there are others on here with the same issues. Anybody see a neurologist for autonomic dysfunction and receive a nerve biopsy?

Also, I have major blood pooling in my legs and wear compression hose to help with this. Anybody else?

Last one - my stomach is such a mess that I am unable to take hardly any supplements. I get major chest pain/reflux and then awful gastritis and stomach pain. If anybody else has this issue, how do you handle taking supplements and has this ever gotten better for anybody?

Thanks!
 

Nina

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Hi dsdmom,

I too get sick every time I overdo it. I wouldn't call what I do exercise as I am completely housebound and can't even do any housework but every now and then another doctor tells me I need to use my muscles and I regret heeding this piece of advice every time.

It's interesting you have also lost the ability to sweat - so have I! I was never much of a "sweater" in the first place, but now it can get as hot as anything and I still don't shed one drop. I am worried about my detoxing capability for this reason and take salt baths as often as I can to help that along.

The blood pooling in the legs is very bad, I have it too and even wearing compression stockings doesn't help much. I can literally feel my heart as it tries to compensate for that. As of now, I haven't found an efficient treatment, but then again my doctor is not willing to try any presciption med.

My reflux disappeared after a few months of taking an acid inhibitor (not sure if I can mention the name?). Somewhere down the road another doctor told me I shouldn't have taken this as it further diminishes the ability to absorb Vitamin B12 which I had already been lacking.

You are definitely not alone with these symptoms, indeed I think most of them are very common in CFS.

Nina
 

kolowesi

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dsdmom exercise

Hi Dsdmom,

I just haven't learned the lesson, I keep trying. Eventually, I have a crash with some new infection, so I think it does do something bad to the immune system. Even if it's just indirect, by pushing us into TH-2 (humoral immune system) response rather than TH-1 (cell-mediated response).

We need Th-1 to fight all of the herpes family viruses, which include EBV and CMV. Also, that's the first line of defense against cancer, and stealth viruses such as Clamydia Pneumoniae (CPn) and the mycoplasma species (mycoplasma fermentans, mycoplasma pneumoniae, etc.)

There are a large number of research articles about damage from exercise. Also, a recent thread (I think it's XMRV and cardiomyopathy) has a fantastic list of the different researchers and the heart connections they have found. Heart problems are very connected to the ability to exercise, though mitochondrial dysfunction may be at the root.

It's so common for people to think we are just lazy, especially as some of us have gained weight. Exercise seems the obvious answer. Well, it's not!

I'm currently trying 2 minutes a day, and on days when my legs are tired and walking is hard, I skip it. Eventually, I will get stronger, but I'm determined not to crash and I have to pay attention to my body to keep that from happening.

For stomach, I like Pepto-Bismol (it kills Lyme, and Klutzo told me about taking it for 6 days every 6 weeks). It may block some vitamins, and we don't want to take in any unnecessary metals (bismuth is one), but after a couple of doses my stomach really calms down.

The acid inhibitors have some undesirable side-effects, as low acid makes us vulnerable to infections that come in through the gastro track. You probably saw that study showing hospital patients on proton-pump inhibitors were 30% more likely to catch pneumonia. It happened to my mom. (She's not on them any more, she just uses the pink stuff as needed, which isn't often, and papaya digestive enzymes.)

Good luck. I hope you get to feeling better. Let us know what happens.

Kelly
 

Sushi

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dsdmom,

I didn't sweat at all for years. It is only recently with the help of far infrared sauna, that my body has learned to sweat again. And what comes out in the sweat is, well, not fragrant! It is good though, even if I am in the stinky zone now. I also sweat normally even on non-sauna days--what an amazing thing!

And, as you might guess from knowing me on another forum, I wear compression knee socks when it is cool enough that is (I live in Florida). I used to need the full stockings, now really hardly need the knee socks.

Sushi
 

Andrew

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Hi,

Post exertion malaise (sick after exercise) is a common symptom. I have it, and so does everyone I know with CFS. The trick is to always stay behind your limit for exercise. And sometimes that limit is very very low.

Blood pooling is also something some of us have. And some CFS doctors recommend support hose. I read about one doctor who had some patients wear compression suites.

Andrew
 
C

Carla

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Yes I do have swelling and inflamation after exertion, but it took your question just now for me to relate the two. In fact, I was reading through the site to see if others have swelling and why. And now that I think back over the most recent occurences they do seem to follow periods of exertion. Initially I was thinking it was food sensitivities but can't find the common denominator.

In my case my whole body seems to swell. My legs have deep pitted edema and my abdomen swells so large that I have to wear my largest pants. It usually lasts for 3 - 4 days and I feel so miserable that I barely eat anything until it goes away.

Have you found anything helpful for this?
 

*GG*

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To DsdMom

I live on the NH Seacoast and see Drs in MA, not a women myself, but hopefully can guide you to Drs that can help?!:confused:

I take Creon for digestion but have recently started taking a probiotic by Udo's from Canada. I get this from my Chiropractic Neurologist office in MA. If the success continues, I will consider getting off the Creon, talk to Dr 1st though.:rolleyes:

Thanks to this website and for someone mentioning the idea of a Chiropractic Neurologist. Have been seeing Chiriopractors for years, but this guy knows a lot about the brain!:cool:

My stomach is doing much better now, rarely have diarhea! Yeah!:D

I like icons, when I remember to use them, thanks Cort!;)
 

Cort

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I grabbed this off another thread (http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?t=1213&page=26) because its such a nice evocation of one person's reaction to exercise

From Duendeni


I sort of feel hyper-sensitive to any kind of stimulation. I dont know what has gone wrong with my body, but I feel like some process has gone awry - like maybe I releases some kind of chemical, or maybe there is some sort of energy crisis, which pushes me into overdrive.

When I rest completely, I feel as though my systems are stabilising and recuperating. My energy level rises, the fatigue lifts, the muscle stiffness and pain abates, the skin sensations and feverishness wane and I feel stronger, calmly alert.

As soon as I start doing some physical exercise/activity, my muscles seize up - I feel as if the muscle stiffness I would experience after running a six hour marathon comes on in minutes. My whole body cramps up , I feel burning in my muscles. I get nauseous, I feel flooded with adrenaline. I get shaky, weak, a crushing headache (my whole scalp and face feels tight). My vision blurs, and I get after-vision. The noise becomes grating and the light gets glaring. My voice becomes hoarse. I get muscle twitches, numbnessnow I can no longer concentrateI feel dizzy, spacially disorientated and on the verge of collapse.

Later when I rest again, I feel poisoned, fluish. I have a sore throat when the stiffness starts to wear off in my throat, and these prickly, itchy, creep crawley skin sensations over my body (but especially in my face and limbs) as my muscles start to loosen up again. My muscles now ache and hurt as the stiffnes wanes. I am left with a feeling of groginess and malaise that lasts for days.

I experience this to a lesser extent with mental activity. The more I work, the more my scalp feels tight, the less able I am to conentrate, the more I struggle to think. The more I push against it, the more drained I become and ultimately, my brain seizies up and I get the flushed-with-adrenaline feeling.

I have noticed this can also happen if I watch action films/ horror films, which I just dont do anymore if can help it. I guess when you watch others engaging in stressful situations, you feel partly engaged in that stress yourself. So your body produces adrenaline or some knid of stress hormone, and it starts the whole cycle going. So emotional stress/anxiety is a no-no too, but the effect of that wares off much quicker for me than any physical activity.
 
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I grabbed this off another thread (http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?t=1213&page=26) because its such a nice evocation of one person's reaction to exercise

From Duendeni

good description. For me I have more severe mental fatigue than physical fatigue. So I get all the same problems from physical stuff and mental stuff, but can tolerate more physical stuff than mental stuff. But same feelings of sickness and post exertional malaise.

I have brutle mental problems in addtion to what you mentioned, but yes to the nausea and headaches, and being able to think at all. Additonally, cAn't see straight, can't talk, can't make phone calls, can't do bills, get lost in areas I have been a hundred times....etc..

For me exertion seems cumulative, so if I can do something once in moderation, and rest, and again in moderation, and rest, and I can go on afew times until getting derailed by some toxic experience, or over exertional type experience. Like going too long without rest, or Like eating the worng thing, stress, chemicals, etc. However, all it takes is for the tars not line up that day and I am off the tracks. being able to manage my time helps alot, so I don't work and can not get out of bed some days, and some days I cram to get a few things done when I have juice. Then being able to do stuff when I have energy and resting when I don't helps alot. BEcause forcing myself just makes things so much worse.

I sometimes think about it as having a regular car but only with a 1 gallon gas tank (instead of a 15 gallon tank) that may take a few days to fill back up again. SO sometimes I can do very normal stuff, until I just can't anymore. having to refill may takes days to repair.
 

oerganix

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thanks duendeni

I posted this already in the other forum:

Your description of what I, too, experience is excellent. I need to print it out and show it to the next person who asks me how it feels, when I am so weak and sick I can hardly think or speak.

My one description of the heaviness of the fatigue, that some people have been able to grasp, is that it feels like the normal 1 gee of gravity here on Earth has changed to 3 Gs of gravity, or like I'm wearing magnetic boots and walking on an iron surface. I often stub my toes, thinking my feet are higher above the ground than they really are.
 

Lily

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Oh YES

the heaviness/graviry description....sometimes I describe it as like walking through jello, or that my legs and arms are concrete. So true about the stumbling.....I tripped over a box in the grocery store that was left in the isle as they were stocking shelves (this was 2 years ago when I could still get to the grocery store, and it was a major task)....anyway I thought I had lifted my leg sufficiently to clear the box.....falling was very strange - it felt like I was falling in slow motion - of course the impact of hitting the floor didn't quite seem that way though. I've done the same thing at home with that eerie slow motion falling....such an odd thing. Boy am I careful now ....:)
 

Cort

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A couple of years ago a researcher came up with distinctive kinds of fatigue in ME/CFS: there was wired/tired and fluey fatigue and molasses (cement trousers) fatigue and something else. Everything was distinctive to ME/CFS except fluey fatigue.

This what got me from Duedeni's description

my muscles seize up - I feel as if the muscle stiffness I would experience after running a six hour marathon comes on in minutes. My whole body cramps up , I feel burning in my muscles. I get nauseous, I feel flooded with adrenaline. I get shaky, weak, a crushing headache (my whole scalp and face feels tight). My vision blurs, and I get after-vision. The noise becomes grating and the light gets glaring. My voice becomes hoarse. I get muscle twitches, numbness…now I can no longer concentrate…I feel dizzy, spacially disorientated and on the verge of collapse.
He gets it worse than me; for me muscle stiffness is big thing and a hot constricted feeling in my muscles and a sensation like my skin isn't breathing as weird as that sounds. My concentration at first sharpens actually and then goes south, I feel irritable and snappy, I feel so hot all over that cold rarely bothers (it usually does); heart starts pounding, mental abilities decline dramatically, am terrible at speaking to people, have problems with dizziness and spatial orientation sucks as does coordination overall. I become like this awkward block of constricted muscles.

Its amazing how similar our experiences are except I don't have headaches or nausea. I can actually push those symptoms out with more exercise temporarily but then they come back magnified.
 
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Duodeni

Quote from Duodeni

<<As soon as I start doing some physical exercise/activity, my muscles seize up - I feel as if the muscle stiffness I would experience after running a six hour marathon comes on in minutes. My whole body cramps up , I feel burning in my muscles. I get nauseous, I feel flooded with adrenaline. I get shaky, weak, a crushing headache (my whole scalp and face feels tight). My vision blurs, and I get after-vision. The noise becomes grating and the light gets glaring. My voice becomes hoarse. I get muscle twitches, numbnessnow I can no longer concentrateI feel dizzy, spacially disorientated and on the verge of collapse. >>

Hi Duodeni,

You might want to consider checking into whether you might have a magnesium deficiency or calcium excess (both can cause muscles to seize and cramp). Keep in mind that I am not a health care professional nor do I believe that if you take lots of magnesium that you CFS symptoms will all go away - sigh - if that were only true.

I can only tell you about my experiences. After I got some magnesium into my system (Magnesium glycinate) my muscle cramps are all but gone, I have been able to reduce my sleep meds by five/sixths (from 30 mg to 5), and blood pressure has gone down 12 points. The eye twitches that I used to have frequently have disappeared, and I have a lot less fluttering around my heart in my chest. In addition, my sensitivity to light and noise has decreased.

Having said that, I believe that I have personally been suffering from magnesium deficiency for years - long before I had any kind of CFS problem.

Just keep in mind a couple of things - magnesium is notoriously difficult to check for in a blood test, and people who have the following conditions should not take it:

Kidney Failure
Myasthenia gravis
Excessively slow heart rate
Bowel Obstruction

Do your own research if you can. Dr. Mildred Seelig's book "The Magnesium Factor" is great, also Dr. Carolyn Dean's "The Magnesium Miracle".

Hope this helps,

Maxine
 

Alesh

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If I should sort according to significance what has uniformly deteriorated my illness it would be:

1. Infectious disease like a common viral infection: Something such trivial as a common cold has a potential to trigger a relaps that takes me several years back in my arduous path of very, very slow recovery.

2. Physical activity: Each physical activity above a certain low threshold makes me sick for a prolonged period, most notably aerobic exercise. Something like running would be possible but the price for it would be too big. What I can tolerate much more is anaerobic exercise.

3. Mental activity and emotional stress: I don't remember any stressful event in my 11 years long unlife with CFS, and there were many such ones, that would deteriorate my illness. I remember that in the first few years of my illness when I had to do some translations in a short period of time it deteriorated my health a bit. But it is negligible. Even now I use Ritalin to compensate for my cognitive deficit, which is the most unpleasant aspect of my illness, to be able to work at least part time and I never have so gargantuan aftermath from straining myself mentally as I always have from straining myself physically.

The flushing symptom is really interesting. I remember that when in the past I naively tried to overcome it by walking longer and longer distances I always got unnaturally red cheeks after this physical activity. I remember that I had such flushes in times when I was healthy only after substantial sleep deprivation.

I also think the anxiety after physical activity is something useful in the differential diagnosis with respect to depresive disorder.

When I had some emotional problem or was mentally fatigued I was used to get calm and fresh by sport. Now with CFS sport makes my brain to malfunction and feel anxiety.
 
D

duendeni

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Hey everyone,

I’m glad so many of you seem to appreciate my post - it was just something I banged out rapidly, without much thought, but perhaps that is why it conveys my sensations with accuracy.

The process of being symptomatic has become so familiar to me now, yet I remember when I was first diagnosed with M.E/CFS five years ago and my doctor mentioned fatigue, it just didn’t register - I couldn’t understand that my problem was fatigue at all - my understanding of ‘fatigue’ then was so disparate to what it is now….and the CFS criteria are so vague, they hardly encompass my illness experience. It is only when speaking to other people with M.E/CFS that you realise you are on the ‘same plane‘, if you will.

A couple of years ago a researcher came up with distinctive kinds of fatigue in ME/CFS: there was wired/tired and fluey fatigue and molasses (cement trousers) fatigue and something else. Everything was distinctive to ME/CFS except fluey fatigue.
I do think ME/CFS fatigue is in a whole new league…. I experience it as like being stuck in a ‘burn out’ state. You can rest a bit, replenish a bit, but as soon as you start gearing up to activity , your body seems to go into overdrive and cuts out again. And again. And again. I personally experience a definite pattern to my symptoms. They are cyclical in nature. At first, when I do a little tiny bit of activity, it feels like I’m experiencing ‘just’ extreme exhaustion, but when I push past that it quickly deteriorates into a hyper illness state with concomitant neurological symptoms.

He gets it worse than me; for me muscle stiffness is big thing and a hot constricted feeling in my muscles and a sensation like my skin isn't breathing as weird as that sounds. My concentration at first sharpens actually and then goes south, I feel irritable and snappy, I feel so hot all over that cold rarely bothers (it usually does); heart starts pounding, mental abilities decline dramatically, am terrible at speaking to people, have problems with dizziness and spatial orientation sucks as does coordination overall. I become like this awkward block of constricted muscles.

Its amazing how similar our experiences are except I don't have headaches or nausea. I can actually push those symptoms out with more exercise temporarily but then they come back magnified.
I guess its even more amazing as I’m a young woman. ;) Muscle stiffness, or a ’hot constricted feeling in the muscles’, as you put it so articulately, is probably my worst symptom. I get really irritable when I’m in the wired stage, too. I have this theory that I get irritable, not just because I feel like total crap and that’s irritating, but because my body is reacting to stimulation and illness as if its some kind of threat…your body makes you feel irritable as an impetus to “get itself out (of the situation)”/avoid the threat, which, of course, is no small task.

Cort you say, you can “push those symptoms out with more exercise temporarily” but then they come back magnified. I’m quite intrigued by this and wondering if you could go into a little more detail? It’s just that if I push past the cramps and burn and do more activity, I can get a sensation of numbness in my muscles, which can be deceptive. I then feel even more depleted afterwards, when the numbness dissipates and the sensation returns. Just wondering if you experience anything similar as our experiences seem to be quite parallel?

To Weldman --

Thanks for your suggestion. It seems unlikely that I would have magnesium deficiency at this point as my diet mainly consists of oats, spinach, green fruit and veg smoothies (and primarily foods that are high in magnesium) but I will give magnesium supplements a shot according to your recommendation anyway!


Even now I use Ritalin to compensate for my cognitive deficit, which is the most unpleasant aspect of my illness, to be able to work at least part time and I never have so gargantuan aftermath from straining myself mentally as I always have from straining myself physically.

The flushing symptom is really interesting. I remember that when in the past I naively tried to overcome it by walking longer and longer distances I always got unnaturally red cheeks after this physical activity. I remember that I had such flushes in times when I was healthy only after substantial sleep deprivation.

I also think the anxiety after physical activity is something useful in the differential diagnosis with respect to depresive disorder.

When I had some emotional problem or was mentally fatigued I was used to get calm and fresh by sport. Now with CFS sport makes my brain to malfunction and feel anxiety.
agreed on all points...especially the flushing thing. Sometimes, when i'm at a low point, my nose goes all red and hot...i sort of look like rudolph!