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Raw Thyroid Glandular

justy

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maryb if you can afford it it may be worth your while to see a medical herbalist for thigs such as adaptogens. I saw one for a few years who was very (gently) helpful. Although it took a while she did help my immune system and overdriven adrenals quite a bit - have only had one lung infection in the past two years compared with 4 or 5 every year before that.

As Ema says the Ginsengs are considered adaptogens, but i had terrible trouble with them - they made me feel very anxious and nasty, so have steered clear ever since.

Once i get my adrenal saliva test results back i may go back on some herbs again and try and build up my system that way before going back to the thyroid replacement drugs.

Good luck with the Levo. Like you when i tired it i started low as i was so scared of adverse drug effects, unfortunately for me it had no effect good or bad in the long run and the trial was abandoned.

All the best,
Justy
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
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justy
thanks for your advice - I too tried a ginseng once and thought I was going to have a heart attack - and that was before ME.
I may pm you about a herbalist - so many around here need to get a recommendation really though.
 

Ema

Senior Member
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Midwest USA
Ema
thanks ema
I'll try the rhodiola first I think, I've heard people do well on this - my hubby is going to get me a bigger cupboard for all my supplements, how bad is that!!
I'll bear in mind what you say about the dosage on the thyroxine. keep vigilant on symptoms.
I have felt a little better since starting it - but took some multi minerals on an empty stomach yesterday and boy was I sick - silly aren't I?.....

ps - its out of stock at iherb until about 29th Nov........:(
I have a whole closet of supplements if that makes you feel any better. :)

Maybe try the PS first since the rhodiola is out of stock? I really think more of us should try PS because of our HPA axis dyregulation issues...

Minerals can make you nauseous for sure. I have made that mistake before too! Hope you are feeling better today.

Ema
 

justy

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My general advice is to see a qualified MEDICAL herbalist rather than someone who is a herbalist. Medical herbalists have had many years more training, often make their own herbs and can take blood pressure readings etc.

Mine is in Wales, so not probably going to be much use to you, but i did see a very good one in Brighton some years ago.

All the best,
Justy.
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
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831
Location
Michigan
I don't think the forskohlii helps all that much...

I think supplying raw thyroid materials is a good idea but if that does not work consistently, I wonder why you are opposed to taking actual thyroid hormone?

Good luck with allergy season...yuck!

Ema
Thanks for your observations Ema.

I don't take thyroid hormones because there is nothing wrong with my thyroid...it works fine except when burned out by allergies. During allergies the best I can do is supply more raw materials, which works for awhile. There may be a point at which my body uses up these raw materials faster than they can be supplied (gut tolerance etc). I am afraid to push it because I just don't feel comfortable taking >100mg zinc / day for a month stretch...you know, because it is such a high dose that I wouldn't know if it's safe (I have certainly done it during colds and it works very well for a few days for that).

I caught a cold that turned to an allergy attack just yesterday and tried 300mg coleus forskohlii and while I could feel it, it was not of significant effect (so maybe like 10%). I do not know if that would improve if taken every day. The recommended amount for weight loss is 250mg so I figured if others are taking the higher dose, why not me? Well didn't help much on the spot anyway. Took 100mg zinc. The thing is, I did't know I was catching a cold until I was out for the day s I couldn't just grab more zinc and zinc late in the day will keep you awake.,..

Trif
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
I have a whole closet of supplements if that makes you feel any better. :)

Maybe try the PS first since the rhodiola is out of stock? I really think more of us should try PS because of our HPA axis dyregulation issues...

Minerals can make you nauseous for sure. I have made that mistake before too! Hope you are feeling better today.

Ema
Ema, what effects have you noticed from PS? How is that supposed to affect HPA? I was supposed to take it but never really knew what it was supposed to do for you (I got my homocysteine normal w/o it). Would it help allergies? Thanks! -- Oh, I see above you say you take 800mg/day and it gives the HPA a 'kick'. (Does that mean it helps allergies???) (I am so hoping)
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
MaryB, I took high dose Rhodiola for 10 years to control hypoglycemia (age 40-50). I would get low blood sugar from just being cut off in traffic (and be unable to stop shaking until I ate...this is very much a prescription for diabetes as it is exactly how my friend who has since died of it contracted diabetes...she took a big adrenaline shock falling on the ice and suddenly went from normal to brittle diabetic, dying young of diabetic kidney disease). Rhodiola has been proven to increase glycogen stores. After age 50 it was no longer strong enough for me to prevent hypoglycemia and I had to take DHEA which did the trick.

I am investigating cAMP as it is required to break down glycogen and it is low in people with allergies. Some herbs raise it including Spirulina. I did not look at rhodiola because I am investigating as pertains to allergies. would be nice if one thing fixed all. SO now I am curious if rhodiola raises cAMP. I'll check and report back.

Triff
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/16/4/3371

Salidroside Attenuates Hydrogen Peroxide-Induced Cell Damage Through a cAMP-Dependent Pathway

Shuang Guan, Wei Wang, Jing Lu, Wenhui Qian, Guoren Huang, Xuming Deng and Xuelin Wang 1,*


Abstract: Salidroside, a major component of Rhodiola rosea L., has shown various pharmacological functions, including antioxidant effects, but the signal transduction pathway of its antioxidant effects is not very clear. In this study, we found that salidroside could attenuate hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)-induced HL-7702 cell damage, inhibit H2O2-induced cytosolic free Ca2+ ([Ca2+]i) elevation, scavenge reactive oxygen species (ROS) and increase 3’-5’-cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) level in a dose-dependent manner, but it couldn’t influence 3’-5’-cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP) levels. Therefore, these results indicated that the antioxidant effects of salidroside were associated with down-regulation of [Ca2+]i, ROS occur via a cAMP-dependent pathway.

So looks like it would have an effect in allergies too, idk the dose. It takes 3 months at 2g/day for Spirulina to help with allergies...
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
Ema, what effects have you noticed from PS? How is that supposed to affect HPA? I was supposed to take it but never really knew what it was supposed to do for you (I got my homocysteine normal w/o it). Would it help allergies? Thanks! -- Oh, I see above you say you take 800mg/day and it gives the HPA a 'kick'. (Does that mean it helps allergies???) (I am so hoping)
It's hard to say because I've just started and I still am battling giardia. But I would say that I feel less stressed/more clear in my brain. I've also noticed that my vision seems to be improving again. I'll report back in a few months after I've been taking it regularly for some period of time.

PS can also boost dopamine in the hypothalamus which should theoretically help to lower my high prolactin. Hopefully more gently than the bromocriptine!
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
It's hard to say because I've just started and I still am battling giardia. But I would say that I feel less stressed/more clear in my brain. I've also noticed that my vision seems to be improving again. I'll report back in a few months after I've been taking it regularly for some period of time.

PS can also boost dopamine in the hypothalamus which should theoretically help to lower my high prolactin. Hopefully more gently than the bromocriptine!
Thanks! Despite COM+/+ I always test low in dopamine. I methylate ok with lotsa supplements so it's something else. I could try PS. Not sure how I'd know if I was making more dopamine because of it. (The test is $300 and so not gonna happen).
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
Ema
triffid113

Thanks ema - I feel better today - had a hypo this morning (I don't have diabetes) but think it was because I didn't eat much after lunch yesterday as I was feeling so sick and probably exerted myself too much seems to have stabilised okay now.
triffid
I get you on the hypo attacks - I have been trying to be more careful but exerting too much energy or stress can bring one on. I've been rx DHEA but not started it yet - one thing at a time..........
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
Here's another take on the issue of thyroid problems.Hypothyroid as well as hyperthyroid are very real diagnoses with many symptoms but have real science based procedures to back them up.. As someone who at one time hyperthyroid, it's a scary experience. I could have easily had a heart attack because of my erratic/very rapid heartbeat. I don't wish that experience on anyone. I am now hypothyroid. Using OTC supplements as well as desiccated thyroid can inadvertently lead to hyperthyroidism and/or similar symptoms.The endocrine system is very sensitive and works in a delicate balance. A change in one part can change the others which can not only be harmful to health but mess up the reading on Thyroid tests thus possibly leading to treatments that do not relate to what health problem are actually present. These problems can be caused by the dessicated thyroid as well as OTC supplements.

People who use over-the-counter "thyroidsupport" supplements may be putting their health at risk, according to a study being presented at the annual meeting of the American Thyroid Association. The supplements contain varying amounts of two different kinds of thyroid hormones apparently derived in large part from chopped up animal thyroid glands, says the study's senior investigator, Victor Bernet, M.D., an endocrinologist at Mayo Clinic in Florida. Liothyronine (LT3) (Cytomel) is uncommonly used for thyroid dysfunction. The active form of thyroid, administration can cause wide fluctuations in FT3 levels, increasing the risk of cardiovascular harms compared with LT4. If LT4 is like gradually turning up your home’s thermostat, LT3 is akin to big fire in risk/benefit profile, LT3 is generally used only in patients intolerant to LT4, or in those who are unable to successfully achieve treatment success and symptom resolution on LT4 alone.


Combination therapy (LT4 + LT3) occurs, but isn’t supported by good evidence, despite what you might expect from the testimonials. Trials comparing LT4 to LT4 + LT3 have shown nobenefit over LT4 alone — and sometimes LT4 alone comes out on top.


The hormones are known as T3, or triiodothyronine, and T4, or thyroxine. They are regulated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and intended for use only in prescription medication because they can cause significant health issues, such as an increase in heart rate, heart irregularities and palpitations,nervousness, and diarrhea, Dr. Bernet says.
"These hormones have effects throughout the body, which is why they are controlled," he says.
Not only did nine of the 10 supplements studied have animal hormone, the amount of hormones in the products varied significantly, sometimes exceeding doses used for individual patients and comparable to levels found in prescription thyroid medication, Dr. Bernet says
http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2011-jax/6514.html?rss-feedid=1
Contrary to popular believe on the web, endocrinologists do treat subclinical hypothyroidism and there is a systematic way to dianose and treat this disorder.
Awareness of subclinical thyroid disease, which often remains undiagnosed, is emphasized, as is a system of care that incorporates regular follow-up surveillance by one physician as well as education and involvement of the patien
thttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15260011?dopt=Abstract
Subclinical hypothyroidism is generally defined as a “normal” T4 and a slightly elevated TSH: That is, some laboratory signs of a thyroid dysfunction, but not sufficient enough to warrant a diagnosis. Symptoms are not always present, and can be vague and nonspecific: dry skin, constipation, depression, poor memory, etc. Subclinical hypothyroidism can only be diagnosed based on test results. The clinical significance of the condition is unclear. Arecent Cochrane Review suggested that treating subclinical hypothyroidism doesn’t seem to result in meaningful differences in symptoms or quality of life, nor does it decrease cardiovascular morbidity. Given the risk/benefit perspective seems unclear, treatment decisions need to be individualized, and based on the severity of individual symptoms.Liothyronine (LT3) (Cytomel) is uncommonly used for thyroid dysfunction. The active form of thyroid, administration can cause wide fluctuations in FT3 levels, increasing the risk of cardiovascular harms compared with LT4. If LT4 is like gradually turning up your home’s thermostat, LT3 is akin to big fire in risk/benefit profile, LT3 is generally used only in patients intolerant to LT4, or in those who are unable to successfully achieve treatment success and symptom resolution on LT4 alone.
Combination therapy (LT4 + LT3) occurs, but isn’t supported by good evidence, despite what you might expect from the testimonials. Trials comparing LT4 to LT4 + LT3 have shownnobenefit over LT4 alone — and sometimes LT4 alone comes out on top.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...acts-the-controversies-and-the-pseudoscience/
As far as Armour being more natural, pigs are not people and have a different ratio of T4 and T3 than levothyroxine. So in this case synthroid is more natural as it is tailored to how the human body works. T3 is unstable with a very short half life. T4 in most cases will convert to the right amount of T3.

I have lots of trepidation with the practice of using symptoms to only using symptoms to diagnose, as other health conditions may be overlooked. The symptoms cited by the alternative webpages are vague and can mimic other diseases. Increasing your dose by symptoms only is IMHO not appropriate medical practice, may have dangerous health consequences and a form of self medication.

It’s important that we know as much as possible about treatment options and all the issues, as much as humanly possible, when it comes to decisions about our health care.




.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
I am now hypothyroid.
Most people don't want to be hyperthyroid OR hypothyroid but to be euthyroid.

I'm not sure how being hypo helps the case that T4 alone is sufficient!

Using OTC supplements as well as desiccated thyroid can inadvertently lead to hyperthyroidism and/or similar symptoms.The endocrine system is very sensitive and works in a delicate balance. A change in one part can change the others which can not only be harmful to health but mess up the reading on Thyroid tests thus possibly leading to treatments that do not relate to what health problem are actually present. These problems can be caused by the dessicated thyroid as well as OTC supplements.

It's always important to use supplements with the guidance of a skilled practitioner. This is true for all supplements, not just thyroid.

Most thyroid supplements contain amino acids and/or iodine which are very unlikely to cause any great long-term harm.

Desiccated thyroid supplements are widely used worldwide and have a very good safety profile unlike many other of the drugs that we are subjected to. I bet there are fewer deaths from natural thyroid products than from Tylenol.

This article discusses the safety and benefit of combination therapy and provides a rebuttal to the flawed and biased studies showing otherwise:

http://www.thyroidscience.com/Criticism/lowe.3.16.09/lowe.bta.rebuttal.3.16.09.pdf

There are lots of problems with the study posted showing that there was supposedly no benefit to T4/T3 only therapy. The dosages were not equivalent, the FT4 was allowed to drop, the TSH was allowed to rise, the dosing of T3 was not appropriate once a day, the measurement of FT3 24 hours after a dose is totally inaccurate due to the short half life...the list goes on and on.

But most tellingly, the study itself quotes a handful of other studies that show that there WERE benefits to patients of combination therapy but then invents excuses as to why THOSE were flawed and not their own study!

Unfortunately, they then have to conclude that half the patients on combination therapy improved whereas half did not. While this proportion is probably not entirely accurate, it does show that nearly 50% of people on T4 do better with the addition of T3 to their thyroid medication regimen. Funny how they didn't choose to highlight that finding but instead attributed it to chance.

Contrary to popular believe on the web, endocrinologists do treat subclinical hypothyroidism and there is a systematic way to dianose and treat this disorder.

It's true that subclinical hypothyroidism is studied in the literature. It's also true that a certain subset of people with subclinical hypo may not benefit from thyroid hormone replacement. But since a certain number of people DO benefit, and there is very little risk for a trial of thyroid hormone, it seems very silly to write it off. There is little possibility for harm and great possibility for benefit. Seems like a no-brainer to me!

And the truth of the matter is that endos in general do not recognize and/or treat subclinical hypothyroidism. They BARELY treat overt hypothyroidism when they are reliant on the TSH only.

I saw 6 endos before I found one in this area that was familiar with the concept. She was one of the most senior faculty members of the state school of medicine. She acknowledged the problem of subclinical hypothyroidism but had no explanation for why it was not taught in the medical school. Endos are NOT taught about this issue currently in the way that they should be taught. They are taught to treat to the TSH alone so that is what they do.

If treating patients as lab results worked, we would have no need for doctors and could just go to see computers. A skilled clinician should have judgment that is more valuable than a lab report and that is how it was throughout history.

Medicine was every bit as much of an art as a science. We have lost that now and the population's health reflects this trend.

Spend 5 minutes in the waiting room of any typical endo and you will see the fattest, sickest people you would ever want to meet. It's a crying shame and it should be criminal.



You REALLY need to vet your sources a little more closely!

Read a little bit more about the Executive Editor of sciencebasedmedicine.org and then post anything from that blog here with a straight face.

ETA: There are reports that his affiliation with Yale may not be all it is made out to be. I don't know for sure if this is true, but I have no reason to doubt it.

http://www.bolenreport.com/feature_articles/Doctor's-Data-v-Barrett/novellahumiliation.htm


"Novella claims to be a neurology professor at Yale University, and throws the name "Yale" around like he was throwing seed to the morning chickens - but, to me, that is an outright fabrication.

Novella, evidence shows, works for a medical center that "rents" the name "Yale" from the University, who then, assuming the monthly payments are up to date, gets to claim that all their staff doctors are, in fact, professors at Yale (insert bad smell here).

In short, Novella is just another justifiably self-disappointed crap-career loser...



The reality of Novella, easily found, is that he testifies for insurance companies, and that seems to be the extent of his practice. I get a picture of Novella saying"that hatchet imbedded in Mr. Smith's head by his employer is causing no neurological damage, and it is clear that Mr. Smith is faking his claims of pain... His employer was right to fire him when he didn't show up for work the next day. Mr. Smith clearly self-inflicted his injury... and has previously demonstrated his social recalcitrance when he failed to institutionalize his autistic child, actually claiming that the autism started after a series of 152 vaccinations were given in one day by a pediatrician. It is clear that Mr. Smith, and his wife, caused the autism themselves, in that they are clearly genetically defective... blah, blah, blah..., blah, blah, blah..., blah, blah, blah..., blah, blah, blah..., blah, blah, blah..., blah, blah, blah..."
You know - the usual quackbuster testimony."


As far as Armour being more natural, pigs are not people and have a different ratio of T4 and T3 than levothyroxine. So in this case synthroid is more natural as it is tailored to how the human body works. T3 is unstable with a very short half life. T4 in most cases will convert to the right amount of T3.

Yes, pigs are not people and that is why Armour doesn't work well for some people and they do better on a synthetic bioidentical T4 + T3 therapy so that they can control the proportion.

But the actual thyroid hormone is the same (and bioidentical) regardless of the source whereas the same cannot be said for the conjugated estrogens in Premarin. Those are not bioidentical and do not work the same way. The only difference in the thyroid hormone is the proportion, not the content.

T3 is not unstable just because it has a short half life. That's just biased writing to make people fearful. Scary things are unstable so if T3 is unstable it must be scary too! Just fear-mongering, pure and simple.

I have lots of trepidation with the practice of using symptoms to only using symptoms to diagnose, as other health conditions may be overlooked. The symptoms cited by the alternative webpages are vague and can mimic other diseases. Increasing your dose by symptoms only is IMHO not appropriate medical practice, may have dangerous health consequences and a form of self medication.

Funny, because that is how hypothyroidism was historically treated for years with many fewer problems. It's your choice to remain hypo as you stated in your first paragraph.

No one is saying not to have expert clinical guidance or advocating self medication. I am advocating learning the actual facts, speaking to patients who have been through it and coming to your own conclusions.

The TRUTH of the matter is that some people do great on T4 only therapy. Some people do not and benefit from the addition of T3 to their regimen. This results in a greatly improved quality of life and very few risks when appropriately monitored by a doctor who is not a slave to the TSH and actually bothers to monitor your free thyroid hormone levels.

Ema
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
The dosages were not equivalent, the FT4 was allowed to drop, the TSH was allowed to rise, the dosing of T3 was not appropriate once a day,
The dosing of T3 once a day was not only inappropriate, but potentially dangerous. That is probably (I hope) why the dosages were not equivalent.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
The dosing of T3 once a day was not only inappropriate, but potentially dangerous. That is probably (I hope) why the dosages were not equivalent.
The dosages were not equivalent because it is not possible to calculate equivalencies accurately. They are different hormones. Sure, T4 can turn into T3 under the right circumstances but it is like trying to compare apples and oranges.

Progesterone can also turn into aldosterone but you don't see anyone out there trying to talk about how much progesterone equals aldosterone!

Studies that puport to do this are lost from the very start.

The only thing they could have done would be to go by the FT3 and FT4...and see when people have the same levels of thyroid hormones, which preparation(s) caused greater satisfaction.

Of course, it would have been really difficult for many people on T4 alone to get their FT3 equivalent to those on combination therapy...which is kind of the whole point!
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
This article discusses the safety and benefit of combination therapy and provides a rebuttal to the flawed and biased studies showing otherwise:http://www.thyroidscience.com/Criticism/lowe.3.16.09/lowe.bta.rebuttal.3.16.09.pdf
This is not a study but as the title suggests an opinion paper in rebuttal to the standard practice position paper published by the British Thyroid Association.
While the authors do use citations, many of them are questionable. For example some of the citations are exact duplicates of the first citation but another author quoting the original article. To me this seems less than professional.

There are lots of problems with the study posted showing that there was supposedly no benefit to T4/T3 only therapy. The dosages were not equivalent, the FT4 was allowed to drop, the TSH was allowed to rise, the dosing of T3 was not appropriate once a day, the measurement of FT3 24 hours after a dose is totally inaccurate due to the short half life...the list goes on and on.
Desiccated thyroid is also problematic because of the once a day dosing and that’s why it’s not used except for a subset of hypothyroid patients and then it’s used judiciously. I don’t know if the T3 prescribed by physicians is effective throughout the day, but that’s an interesting point and would like to look into that.
But most tellingly, the study itself quotes a handful of other studies that show that there WERE benefits to patients of combination therapy but then invents excuses as to why THOSE were flawed and not their own study!

“Invent” is a personal opinion. Nothing wrong with personal opinion but it’s standard procedure for papers/studies to cite data they think is valid.

"Novella claims to be a neurology professor at Yale University, and throws the name "Yale" around like he was throwing seed to the morning chickens - but, to me, that is an outright fabrication……………………………



I hold Novella in high esteem and find his articles which are based on the latest studies and best medical practice credible. But that’s just me. The criticisms by Bolan, IMHO, sound like speculation and it seems he has a grudge with Steve Novella. Again, this is my take on reading the above.


Yes, pigs are not people and that is why Armour doesn't work well for some people and they do better on a synthetic bioidentical T4 + T3 therapy so that they can control the proportion.

But the actual thyroid hormone is the same (and bioidentical) regardless of the source whereas the same cannot be said for the conjugated estrogens in Premarin. Those are not bioidentical and do not work the same way. The only difference in the thyroid hormone is the proportion, not the content.
Actually they are not the same or bioidentical because of the difference in proportion of T4 to T3 and this difference is what is worrisome to endocrinologist because of unintended side effects.
T3 is not unstable just because it has a short half life. That's just biased writing to make people fearful. Scary things are unstable so if T3 is unstable it must be scary too! Just fear-mongering, pure and simple.

It’s certainly not my intention to spread fear. This post is my opinion based on my research of the medical literature showing another side of this issue.

While T3 added to T4 may be used on a certain subset of patients. T3 is chemically unstable, if that is the correct term, because of the half life of T3. The dosage does not last throughout the day which makes a therapeutic dose differ over time. T3 has some serious side effects that need to be taken into consideration when adding T3 to T4 for treatment of hypothyroidism.
Funny, because that is how hypothyroidism was historically treated for years with many fewer problems.
Just because a medicine is used historically does not necessarily show its efficacy is better. Scientific medical practice is a process that may change. A good example is the change in boundaries in TSH for diagnosing.
It's your choice to remain hypo as you stated in your first paragraph.
I am not hypothyroid.
No one is saying not to have expert clinical guidance or advocating self medication. I am advocating learning the actual facts, speaking to patients who have been through it and coming to your own conclusions.

I couldn't agree more. These are my conclusions and why I believe it’s important to see an endocrinologist if a consult is warranted. Endocrinologist have years and years of study in this area. If people are not being helped by synthroid alone or have subclinical hypothyroidism, this can be detected by standardized tests and if a reading is low or high normal, frequent screening is the recommended practice even by a PCPs.




My main concern is when some of these alternative doctors see every vague symptom as hypothyroidism even if the blood test for TSH is in the normal range. Unfortunately, there are many other health conditions that can have the same symptoms.
Extra thyroid can give you a” lift” as it speeds up metabolism but that is not the same as hypothyroidism or even showing you need it. The improvement patients see may be a direct result of this. Taking thyroid medication when not warranted has the potential of shutting down the thyroid gland.
I have stated my case so won’t post more about this. I’m just showing another view as it’s important to see all sides of an issue. Choices are choices and different opinions are just that. People are free to do this and hope a different take is not taken personally.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
You know, the irony is that conventional medicine sends more patients into self treatment than any blog or forum on the Internet. It is their own failings and unwillingness to pick up a medical journal in this century that drive people elsewhere for answers. The system is broken and we are the casualties.

I don't believe zealots on either side of the issue. There are plenty of alternative med practitioners out there selling snake oil, for sure. But I don't even think there should be a divide between "alternative" and conventional medicine. Sometimes we don't know why things work and that is OK (unless you are an insurance company). But this is true in conventional medicine as well. Last time I checked, Pharma still wasn't sure how SSRIs worked but they're sure not stopping selling antidepressants in the meanwhile!

It's unrealistic to expect a peer reviewed double blind study for every possible issue or treatment. And it's impossible to overlook study bias and design flaws when holding papers up as the gold standard.

I've been very lucky (if you could call it luck) to see some of the very best specialists around and I try to share that with people who are interested. I've also seen some of the very worst doctors. I hate for people to get stuck in the drug, drug for side effect, drug for side effect of side effect model of "treatment" when in many cases (like endocrinology in particular!) there are very real options to get people up and moving again.

When doctors combine the best of science with the best of clinical practice experience and judgment, patients have the best outcomes. The two should never be mutually exclusive.

Ema
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
The dosages were not equivalent because it is not possible to calculate equivalencies accurately. They are different hormones. Sure, T4 can turn into T3 under the right circumstances but it is like trying to compare apples and oranges.
That did occurs to me. My main point is that the appropriate daily dose of T3 should not be given at one time. It would wallop the adrenals and probably do a lot of other nasty things besides.