Rare Coenzyme Q10 gene variations in ME patients

[Valentijn]

Someone asked me about the COQ2 gene, which is involved in CoQ10 (ubiquinone) synthesis, so I took a look at all of the genes involved in CoQ10 synthesis for 12 ME patients I have full 23andMe data for, compared to 12 controls.

Purple highlights mean a result is calculated as being present in 1% or less of the general population, red is for 1-2.5% prevalence, orange is 2.5-5%, and yellow is 5-10%. Bold red font is used for missense mutations.

Neither ME patients nor controls have any rare SNPs in COQ2, COQ7, or COQ10A. ME patients and the controls have about the same number of rare variations for COQ4, COQ5, COQ6, ADCK3 (COQ8), COQ9, and COQ10B.

But ME patients have far more rare variations than the controls for PDSS1 and PDSS2 (COQ1):

• We have 5 variations at less than 1% prevalence (purple), versus 1 for the controls.
• We have 3 variations at 1-2.5% prevalence (red) versus 4 for the controls.
  
• We have 11 variations at 2.5-5% prevalence (orange), versus 4 for the controls.
• We have 23 variations at 5-10% prevalence (yellow), versus 14 for the controls.

If weighing the occurrence of the PDSS1 and PDSS2 variations according to rarity, we would score 110, versus 52 for the controls. So we have just over twice as much rarity in these SNPs as the controls do.

 

[adreno]

And what does these genes do?

 

[Valentijn]

And what does these genes do?

They produce CoQ10 ... though I'm not sure what all CoQ10 does

 

[adreno]

It is a component of the electron transport chain and participates in aerobic cellular respiration, generating energy in the form of ATP. Ninety-five percent of the human body’s energy is generated this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q10

 

[Jon_Tradicionali]

Does anyone supplementing with CoQ10 feel they benefit from it?

 

[heapsreal]

Does anyone supplementing with CoQ10 feel they benefit from it?

i was taking 100mg twice a day of q10 as well as acetyl carnitine 500mg once a day, didnt notice alot but i increased the doses after a few people have improved on it but also after seeing the doses used for mitochondrial diseases use much higher doses then alot of us.

So i increased my q10 to 400mg in the morning and acetyl carnitine to 1000mg in the morning and have noticed an increase in energy and stamina but its not like a stimulant type energy. I am going to slowly increase the doses higher and see. I have just ordered some 400mg strength pills and have 100mg strength, so will attempt to increase it in 100mg increments of q10.

I would suggest increase slowly as i know when i started acetyl carnitine it was abit too overstimulating at first when i took just the 500mg dose.

 

[Snowdrop]

i was taking 100mg twice a day of q10 as well as acetyl carnitine 500mg once a day, didnt notice alot but i increased the doses after a few people have improved on it but also after seeing the doses used for mitochondrial diseases use much higher doses then alot of us.

So i increased my q10 to 400mg in the morning and acetyl carnitine to 1000mg in the morning and have noticed an increase in energy and stamina but its not like a stimulant type energy. I am going to slowly increase the doses higher and see. I have just ordered some 400mg strength pills and have 100mg strength, so will attempt to increase it in 100mg increments of q10.

I would suggest increase slowly as i know when i started acetyl carnitine it was abit too overstimulating at first when i took just the 500mg dose.

Good to know you'll have at least a little more energy for those 'emergency' situations.

 

[Mij]

I find ALCAR stimulating so I stay at 500mg/day in the morning.

I've recently increased CoQ10 to 200mg/day from 100mg and whether it's coincidental or not I actually went out after a shower(which normally exhausts me) in the evening, in warm humid temps because I was craving for an ice cream cone- I didn't feel too bad. I would never have the stamina to do that before. If I have to spend my money on one supplement it would be CoQ10.

 

[adreno]

Are you guys using dry powder or soft gels?

 

[heapsreal]

Are you guys using dry powder or soft gels?

I'm using a powdered capsule but take it just prior to a meal with fat in it. Plus my vit e is in an oil base I take at the same time.

 

[adreno]

A Modern Approach to the Treatment of Mitochondrial Disease

Ubiquinol doses of 2 to 8 mg/kg per day (administered twice daily with meals) seem prudent; this form of CoQ10 in a solubilized, bioavailable form is preferred over ubiquinone. Ubiquinone doses of 5 to 30 mg/kg per day (administered in two divided doses daily with meals) is an available alternative.

This would translate to approx 400-2400mg standard Q10 for an average sized person, quite a lot.

 

[Mij]

I take Ubiquinol in a gel cap. I've recently switched to one that contains PrimaVie® shilajit, it's supposed to enhance the absorption of CoQ10. I weigh 50kgs, so I guess I should be taking a little more but I'm staying with 200mg. It's expensive.

 

[adreno]

I take Ubiquinol in a gel cap. I've recently switched to one that contains PrimaVie® shilajit, it's supposed to enhance the absorption of CoQ10. I weigh 50kgs, so I guess I should be taking a little more but I'm staying with 200mg. It's expensive.

Since you are using ubiquinol, you are well within the recommended range, which would be 100-400mg in your case.

 

[ukxmrv]

I'm using the gel caps and finding that at times (and I don't yet know what is pushing this) I am getting more stamina and less PEM for the Coq10. Been experimenting with doses between 75-400 per day.

 

[heapsreal]

I read a couple of similar articles of late explaining the difference between ubiquinol and ubiquinone. From what i have read it doesnt really matter other then ubiquinol costs alot more. Im still on the search for more research on this as well as self experimenting on higher doses on ubiquinone, later i may try the more expensive q10.

Hers an article explaining the difference,


Visit the vitamin aisle in any drug or grocery store, and there is most likely an entire space filled with CoQ10 products. Google “CoQ10” and nearly 7 million results appear. Read about nutrients for heart health and CoQ10 is sure to be featured. Without a doubt, people are talking about CoQ10 in a number of different spaces. Have you joined the conversation?


At Nature Made, we are always engaged with the conversations people are having about CoQ10, and have taken particular notice to one that is causing quite a bit of confusion: the ubiquinone vs. ubiquinol debate. Recently, some people have been describing ubiquinone—the form of CoQ10 that has been available for years—as inferior now that a new form, ubiquinol, has emerged. We’ve seen a lot of conflicting and misleading information on this debate and hope to shed a little light on the real story.


A Quick Review of CoQ10

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is a fat-soluble nutrient produced naturally by our bodies. Found in every cell in the body, CoQ10 is concentrated in organs that require the most energy — such as the heart, liver, muscles and kidneys. CoQ10 is concentrated in these organs because it is essential to the process of producing cellular energy.


Ubiquinone vs. Ubiquinol

In the body, CoQ10 exists either in its oxidized form, ubiquinone, or in its reduced form, ubiquinol. When oxidized CoQ10 (ubiquinone) is used by the body, it transforms and becomes ubiquinol. In the same way, reduced CoQ10 (ubiquinol) becomes ubiquinone when it carries out its role in the body.


To better understand how this works, let’s take a look at CoQ10 and cellular energy production. CoQ10 is found inside the powerhouses of the cell called the mitochondria, the site where energy production occurs. It acts as an electron acceptor or donor in the chain of reactions that lead to energy production. When oxidized CoQ10 (ubiquinone) accepts an electron from another molecule in the chain, it becomes reduced (ubiquinol) and when reduced CoQ10 (ubiquinol) donates an electron, it becomes oxidized (ubiquinone). Maintaining this state of equilibrium is how the body benefits from CoQ10.


CoQ10 Supplements

Regardless of what form of CoQ10 you take as a supplement, the body is able to convert the consumed form to the other form as needed. In other words, if you take a reduced CoQ10 supplement (ubiquinol), the body can convert the reduced CoQ10 (ubiquinol) to the oxidized CoQ10 (ubiquinone) and vice versa. This conversion takes place to maintain a state of equilibrium between reduced CoQ10 (ubiquinol) and oxidized CoQ10 (ubiquinone).


The Bottom Line

Unquestionably, both forms—ubiquinone and ubiquinol—are effective and essential to important pathways in the body, and in states of need, either form can be reduced or oxidized to form the other.


Next time you purchase CoQ10 keep the following points in mind:


• Both CoQ10 forms—ubiquinone and ubiquinol—are important, effective and do great things for your body
• The body is extremely intelligent and is capable of turning one form of CoQ10 into the other as needed
• Feel great that you are choosing such a important supplement for your health

http://www.naturemade.com/resource-...h/understanding-coq10-ubiquinone-vs-ubiquinol

 

[adreno]

Here is also a very good article on the differences between the two forms:

http://thorne.com/media/pdfs/Q-Best_Sheet_Email_Click.pdf

At this point I am unimpressed with the ubiquinol version, and use ubiquinone.

 

[heapsreal]

Here is also a very good article on the differences between the two forms:

http://thorne.com/media/pdfs/Q-Best_Sheet_Email_Click.pdf

At this point I am unimpressed with the ubiquinol version, and use ubiquinone.

good find, i did read it the other day but unable to find it.

https://www.usana.com/media/File/dotCom/company/science/crb/UbiquinoneVersusUbiquinol.pdf another interesting article. It doesnt seem like the price is worth the difference between the 2 in effects., but i havent used ubiquinol to be able to compare.

 

[adreno]

However, I do think oil based softgels are worth the extra money. I recently found these, which have a very good price, but haven't tried them yet:

http://www.iherb.com/MRM-CoQ-10-100-mg-60-Softgels/22808

 

[heapsreal]

However, I do think oil based softgels are worth the extra money. I recently found these, which have a very good price, but haven't tried them yet:

http://www.iherb.com/MRM-CoQ-10-100-mg-60-Softgels/22808

What do u think of the addition of bioperine which is suppose to help absorption?
I take it with a fatty meal. I just bought some high dose q10 400mg x 120 for $45 and get a second free. So 400mg is my current dose and i have some 100mg pills which i will dabble with adding to the 400mg doses and see how even higher doses work.

 

[heapsreal]

MitoQ is another type of q10 that supposedly is much stronger then other q10 supplements. pills come in 5mg doses, so its quite low, maybe they are very strong??