Question on Radiation

[Swim15]

So this is clearly a desperate question from someone with too much time on their hands today - sorry guys.

This popped into my head though so I had to ask. Is there any potential for antiviral action of radiation?

Obviously this is absurd from a standard viewpoint but if I could irradiate my body and kill the CFS, potentially in combination with other therapies, to a degree that would give me even 10-20 years of decent quality of life then I’d do it without question.

 

[Hip]

Exposure to ionizing radiation can actually cause an ME/CFS-like illness. They had some of this in Russia after Chernobyl — see here.

Some ME/CFS patients have benefited from therapy with red and infrared light though, there is a thread on this IR radiation therapy, and a couple of success cases in the thread: List of recovery and improvement stories.

 

[Swim15]

I appreciate the fact that you are a widely knowledgeable contributing member. Do you have any formal medical education? Just wanted to throw that out.

So I get this is probably unanswerable but that thought came from the fact that enteroviruses are uncoated viruses and even coated ones have no way to deal with oxidative stress.

If they have no way to deal with oxidative stress my next two thoughts are one, would doing HBOT to a point of oxygen toxicity (how much is acceptable would have to be determined) potentially create an environment too inhospitable and kill the RNA? Or, two, exposing yourself to something like full body X-rays for a moderate period of time.

Obviously it would be a huge risk/reward analysis and probably not even legal but was just curious on theoretical implications although figured no one knows. I’d assume people at chernobyl got large amounts of gamma radiation so something less than that.

Think the CFS is slowly eating away at my mind tbh

 

[Wishful]

I think it would have to be a very very radiation sensitive virus to be killed off at radiation levels that won't harm the human body too badly. If the radiation doesn't kill off all the viruses, imagine if one mutated into an even worse form?

All this assume that ME is due to a chronic viral infection, which is unproven. I'd wait for verification of that before considering any really drastic antiviral measures.

 

[Hip]

Do you have any formal medical education?

Degree in physics, with a long interest in health, supplements and smart drugs (nootropics); but no medical education as such.

In fact I did not realize how little I knew about biology until I got hit with ME/CFS in 2006, and started reading a bit about medical science, virology and immunology in order to try to improve my health. In some ways, it was nice to be given the opportunity to read more about biology, as being housebound I have a lot of time. That's about the only plus side I can think of in this otherwise miserable experience with ME/CFS.

I still know very, very little in general about medicine, but have picked up a few bits of knowledge about ME/CFS-related science.

So I get this is probably unanswerable but that thought came from the fact that enteroviruses are uncoated viruses and even coated ones have no way to deal with oxidative stress.

If they have no way to deal with oxidative stress my next two thoughts are one, would doing HBOT to a point of oxygen toxicity (how much is acceptable would have to be determined) potentially create an environment too inhospitable and kill the RNA? Or, two, exposing yourself to something like full body X-rays for a moderate period of time.

The trouble is, the enterovirus infections found in ME/CFS are not regular infections. You do not actually have many viral particles being created.

Rather the infection exists as a self-replicating strand of viral dsRNA that lives long-term inside human cells. This viral dsRNA is completely naked within the cell; it is not contained within a viral particle shell.

This intracellular form of viral dsRNA infection is known as non-cytolytic enterovirus, and it's quite a complex beast to understand. There is an MEpedia article here. And a thread here.

Chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infection is also found in other diseases: in type 1 diabetes, and in heart diseases like chronic myocarditis.


The body's natural interferon response would normally clear cells of this enteroviral dsRNA, but there is a theory by Lévêque (briefly explained in the article) that the dsRNA becomes resistant to interferon.

So to answer your question: the dsRNA infection in patients with enterovirus ME/CFS is located within human cells as a chronic intracellular infection. Therefore being inside the cell, it has some protection from whatever you are going to throw at it.

I spent countless hours trying to figure out some way of tackling this dsRNA (as indeed has Dr John Chia), but so far I have not come up with much.

 

[Wishful]

I spend countless hours trying to figure out some way of tackling this dsRNA (as indeed has Dr John Chia), but so far I have not come up with much.

The shrunken submarine in that old movie was too big to enter cells and shoot at RNA molecules. Too bad.

... but maybe we could use that shrink ray on modern autonomous drones.

 

[Swim15]

Degree in physics, with a long interest in health, supplements and smart drugs (nootropics); but no medical education as such.

In fact I did not realize how little I knew about biology until I got hit with ME/CFS in 2006, and started reading a bit about medical science, virology and immunology in order to try to improve my health. In some ways, it was nice to be given the opportunity to read more about biology, as being housebound I have a lot of time. That's about the only plus side I can think of in this otherwise miserable experience with ME/CFS.

I still know very, very little in general about medicine, but have picked up a few bits of knowledge about ME/CFS-related science.





The trouble is, the enterovirus infections found in ME/CFS are not regular infections. You do not actually have many viral particles being created.

Rather the infection exists as a self-replicating strand of viral dsRNA that lives long-term inside human cells. This viral dsRNA is completely naked within the cell; it is not contained within a viral particle shell.

This intracellular form of viral dsRNA infection is known as non-cytolytic enterovirus, and it's quite a complex beast to understand. There is an MEpedia article here. And a thread here.

Chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infection is also found in other diseases: in type 1 diabetes, and in heart diseases like chronic myocarditis.


The body's natural interferon response would normally clear cells of this enteroviral dsRNA, but there is a theory by Lévêque (briefly explained in the article) that the dsRNA becomes resistant to interferon.

So to answer your question: the dsRNA infection in patients with enterovirus ME/CFS is located within human cells as a chronic intracellular infection. Therefore being inside the cell, it has some protection from whatever you are going to throw at it.

I spent countless hours trying to figure out some way of tackling this dsRNA (as indeed has Dr John Chia), but so far I have not come up with much.

Thank you sir/ma’am, appreciate it. I was having a rough few days earlier last week when I posted that and figured I risked sounding kind of retarded.

Physics was always incredibly interesting although we never good at it. Was supposed to start med school this month and physics was my worst by far for entrance so props to you and for all the answers you’ve posted.

I just believe there has to be a way to get at this....obviously we all do.

 

[Swim15]

I think it would have to be a very very radiation sensitive virus to be killed off at radiation levels that won't harm the human body too badly. If the radiation doesn't kill off all the viruses, imagine if one mutated into an even worse form?

All this assume that ME is due to a chronic viral infection, which is unproven. I'd wait for verification of that before considering any really drastic antiviral measures.

I asked because UV light can be used to sterilize and inactivate viruses.

The human body has antioxidant mechanisms and other adaptations to deal with toxic stress short term whereas viruses do not.

So my thinking was going towards finding a treatment that is toxic enough to damage the virus particles but not so toxic that the body can’t recover from it or mitigate the damage

 

[Wishful]

I asked because UV light can be used to sterilize and inactivate viruses.

Yes, on surfaces, or in UV transparent fluids, and most importantly: ones that aren't damaged by that exposure level of UV. Human bodies are probably not very transparent in UV, so you might kill viruses on your skin, but not much deeper. Increasing the intensity to kill viruses in your liver, for example, would probably crisp your skin and flesh. Radiation just isn't selective enough for killing viruses without damaging surrounding tissue.