Psychosomatic vs chronic stress

[PracticingAcceptance]

Thank you so much for that list with those nine factors @pamojja . I am doing all of them, except the radical diet change, since my diet was good to begin with. Just tweaking my diet instead, for now. Your list gives me hope. I know it might not make a difference, but it's good to have validation that I'm doing all I can within my power.

Only way to know at an individual level could be trying interventions addressing psychosomatic factors, and trying interventions addressing stress, and monitoring the difference.

Yeah, I've done this, and found that stress makes my symptoms worse, and resolving/not resolving emotional problems does not make a difference, except for the stressful element of having to deal with problems, and the energy I put into it.
I also know what it feels like to have a small psychosomatic physical issue, and ME/CFS doesn't behave in the same way in my body as that.
This discussion is stemming from my personal experience.

there are unknown factors

I think this is the key barrier in understanding this field of how the mind impacts bodily health. Not enough research yet.

mind/body pluralism is a false dichotomy

I agree on this point

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Thank you so much for that list with those nine factors @pamojja . I am doing all of them, except the radical diet change, since my diet was good to begin with.

I liked the list, also...thanks for posting that. I DID the radical diet change. I've purged another massive list of things from the diet, the list of acceptable foods shrinking again.

 

[andyguitar]

What you might want to consider @PracticingAcceptance is making a distinction between the mind, the brain, and the body. How to separate those 3 things is something that has been debated for 1000s of years. And I dont see much point in starting a debate about it here. But when it comes to ME/CFS I'd say it's the brain and body that need help not the mind. One thing that strikes me about this illness is that underneath the symptoms people are still themselves. So i'd say the mind is not involved.

 

[pamojja]

Thank you so much for that list with those nine factors @pamojja . I am doing all of them, except the radical diet change, since my diet was good to begin with.

Also worth to mention, that the diet-changes found with succesful cancer patients could be very individual. Some vegetarians have put meat back in their diet!

Also in my case that happened, because having been on a low-fat vegetarian diet from age 10 to 40 causing a serious CVD problem, I added healthy fats (~70% kcal of diet), eggs and fish back in. Much later some occational beef (beside all the other interventions..). And experienced remission from my, by conventional medicine considered non-reversible, condition. Only after I came across the work of Kelly, and since also overcame the last remains of PEM.

One framework to explain such differences in bio-chemical individuality would be different autonomous-nervous system metabolic types, used for example by the late pancreatic cancer doc Nickolas Gonzales (the following notes taken from an interview):

Dominant sympathetic types: Typ ‘A’ personalities, disciplined; mostly solid cancers; do good on much plant based foods: fruits, vegies, seeds, grains, nuts, plant based oils: hemp, flax; Vitamin B1, B2, B3, 8:1 ratio magnesium to calcium, high vitamin C & D; but not on much meat protein, no b12, no choline, no B5, no zinc, no selenium, no fish oil. Yes to beta Carotene, chromium, folic acid, riboflavin, thiamin, & niacin​

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Parasympathetic: types are rather creative with unconventional ‘formal’ education; mostly blood-based cancers; do good on lots of meat and a ketogenic diet, saturated fats, fats from fish oils, Calcium 10-15 ratio to magnesium (high magnesium causes depression), Vitamin B12, B5, Choline; not as good on grains or seed. Need zinc & selenium, not good with other large Vitamin B doses.​

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Mixed or balanced types: suffer rather from allergies and fatigue.​

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I seem sort of mixed (could change again). I wouldn't want to go without most varried of greens, but consider additional healthy fats have been absolutely crucial to my improvement. I do well on all supplemented nutrients at high doses. Mg:Ca rather 2:1.

 

[percyval577]

That's the first time I've heard anyone with ME/CFS say that stress reduces symptoms. You're exceptional

I can experience this too, especially when I was very bad it was a help still to be able to work for two times a day for two hours. There is a tiny thread on stress. Since I am slowly improving I am much more vulnerable to stress or other exertions (if I am allowed to categorize like so). I think that some nerves build up again, and now there can in some sense things go miss in a here now more complicate way, whereas my pain and sleep difficulties luckily have gone.

She believes we have a Central Nervous System hypersensitivity disorder or some such thing.

I didn´t manage to watch the video, rather because of the attitude "everything is so important and serious, and now especially this patient´s problems with something" ("and we will evaluate this in a human manner (but will probably not be cheerful)").

I thing well that the core may easily be a hypersensitivity, but I don´t see why this would exclude any physiological illness.


Finally, one will feel more easily any minor or major stress when there is something wrong in the body. So, having had stress before/while onset doesn´t say anything (I got this idea from: Onset Patterns and Course of [ME/CFS] Chu et al 2019).

 

[PracticingAcceptance]

making a distinction between the mind, the brain, and the body.

Thank you @andyguitar , that's actually a very helpful perspective.

 

[pamojja]

Interesting short video on Stress handling: