Professor - ME patients deserve compensation for highly reprehensible treatment

[SOC]

I fully understand the anger of ME patients. I'm angry. Most of us have lost huge parts of our lives to this illness and much of it was due not simply to the illness itself, but the treatment we have received because of the actions of a few individuals and organizations. We have good reason to be angry.

That said -- revenge, while satisfying, is not productive. Communities of people who have been abused in other ways have learned that the desire for revenge holds people back on their path to healing. The reality is that victims very, very rarely get the revenge they want. When you consider the amount of damage done by serial pedophiles to their victims, even the worst punishment society doles out doesn't begin to compare. Fair, no. Reality, yes.

If we want to heal, and I most certainly do, we have to let go of our need for full revenge. That isn't to say that there shouldn't be an accounting. I expect Wesseley et al, and Reeves and the CDC to take a lot of flak and embarrassment. I expect their reputations to take a big hit in the long run. Is that enough? Is that fair? Not really, considering the damage they did. But realistically, it's probably all we are likely to see.

If we hang onto a need for revenge, we will be stuck in these miserable decades and never fully move on with our lives. My goal is to move forward. I can look back on those losers with disgust, but if I wait for revenge I'm convinced I'll be disappointed. If you have doubts about that, look at any other severely abused community. Desire for revenge hurts the victim more than it does the perpetrator.

Sure, let's be angry -- but let's use it to move forward, not hang onto the past.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Revenge, and justice are two different things. I'm rather well aware of that!

Justice is not served by letting criminals get away with it, because it encourages other criminals to do the same, because they know they too, will get away with it. Bitching about abuse is one thing, committing the abuse or actual violence in repsonse to such are another kettle of fish.
Avoiding this topic is facile at best.

Either those repsonsible are grossly incompetant by letting themselves be blinded by ridiculous unscientific twaddle (like Phrenology and Eugenics of old),
or,
they have perpetrated a terrible crime to let corporations and government avoid the cost of welfare and treatment (and treatment would have saved vastly more money anyway!)...or it's something even worse.
The first, they get a very serious kick up the backside for (in a legal/professional manner, not literally, lol)
The second, the law goes ape on them, it's one of the worst crimes in history: denying treatment and respite to millions of innocent people and possibly letting a contagious disease run unchecked.

this is the issue with Nixon's pardon by Ford, as an example of what happens when a serious crime is "brushed under the carpet"
Technically, Watergate etc wasn't that serious a crime as it wasn't one of violence etc: reprehensible yes but not monstrous.
However, by pardoning Nixon, Ford set a very dangerous precidence that said "If you are President, you will get away with anything because the next guy in the Oval Office will pardon you, so he can get the same benefit if need...nudge nudge nod's as good as a wink!"
that's nasty, dangerous corruption
See also, "Operation Paperclip" and similar like Operation Gladio, some of the worst monsters in history were protected from justice because they had tech or economic benefits post WW2, blech :/ And in the end, those twisted actions ended up causing even more problems

So, if those responsible for our abuse, are let away with it, let scurry back into the woodwork....more such abuses will occur FORVER, until stopped one distant century away, or one perhaps wipes out the Human Race entirely.

And hey, I'm not the one who sets the legal punishments in some nations don't blame or accuse me for THAT for goodness sake!
I don't like the most extreme ones (British history is full of good reasons why they're wrong if anyone wishes to debate such, Start with Derek Bentley if you wish), but it is, like it or not, the state sanctioned outcome. Pussy footing around that is silly.
Justice requires that terrible deeds are exposed publicly, to be shown they are heinous, wrong, and not acceptable, otherwise they do become acceptable!
Justice needs victims to stand up and accuse their abusers, or they abusers will harm others.
Justice is best served by wrongdoers genuine remorse, repentance and coming forward and admitting their guilt, not punishment afterwards (all that usually does anyway is get them off the streets and not much more), but fat chance with a lot of sleeks as they simply don't care ; they won't accept the suffering and wrongdoing they have done.

So, in this case, what that person from Norway has done is great, but it needs said by their government's leader, on camera, and then followed up with proper investigation, if need be, new laws or tightening up of old ones/regulations.

This is NOT a case of one single doctor accidentally misdiagnosing someone due to a genuine accident, which while tragic, is fully understandable and easily forgivable.
This is instituionalized abuse of millions, leading to unecessary suffering and even death.
Wrongful imprisonment, children being abducted by the authorities, torture in the name of science and healing, etc.

And every day those repsonsible do not come forward, admit and expose it all, more suffer needlessly.
That is a horrendous crime that is nor served by simple letting it all go away with a few words and not even form the major wrogndoers.

A true "Mea Culpa" from Wessely, Reeves etc, today, and explaining it all in detail, could do a tremendous amount of good by stopping further harm, and to some extent, expiate their sins and letting the world understand what has occured.
The silence, however, is deafening :/

 

[SOC]

A true "Mea Culpa" from Wessely, Reeves etc, today, and explaining it all in detail, could do a tremendous amount of good by stopping further harm, and to some extent, expiate their sins and letting the world understand what has occured.
The silence, however, is deafening :/

I agree with you on this point. Not sure we'll get a true mea culpa, but we should.

Justice and revenge are indeed two different things. We may get some justice in the form of recognition of failures, and some future good could come of that. That's not revenge.

 

[max]

Well written SilverB.

 

[Desdinova]

Apologies from Weasel and Co would be meaningless to me. I know even if their egos did allow them to apologize it wouldn't come with one bit of sincerity. An admission of guilt by those who are supposed to run my governments programs is what I want.

Admitting to saying one thing while doing another "Oh CFS is a real serious disorder.... It's NOT DEPRESSION..". (The only thing missing from that is whomever is saying that winking and nodding while doing so). Allowing Psychiatrists to run and influence and dictate the direction, treatment and overall world view of this disorder while not being directly appointed to any offical high level position is criminal.

Those in charge admitting that the way they've treated ME/CFS is a repeating of history in the sense that they the Medical authorities have rushed to label such things as MS, Parkinson's, Epilepsy etc. as mental illness.

And admitting that it's been classified By The World Health Organization as a Neurological Disorder for Decades. Do that and it will be a start. Put up respectable funding, real serious money and doing real research and studies and expunging the phoney, flawed, and skewed studies done by the mental illness camp will be a true beginning.

 

[Battery Muncher]

If I recover, I think I'm going to try and move to Norway.

The last social democracy in Europe.

 

[barbc56]

Don't want to sound like Polyanna here.

What I am saying is you have to be careful of pushing people into a corner and the only defense they will have to get out of that corner is to fight back scratching and kicking.

Many the things I have written my anger on paper. It's theraputic. I sometimes let myself wallow in my misery, let myself have a great pity party, rail at the injustice of it all.

But I also know that I don't want to be stuck in that mode, that the anger can feed on itself until I become paralyzed, festering and destroys my health. So I give myself a time limit to be in this abysyl mind set.

Then I take action. That action may simply be getting out of that mindset, at least for the time being. I don't want to give that anger more power over me than it deserves.

TBH, that's what I have on paper and being human, don't always follow that plan. But it's a plan.

Life isn't fair. Sometimes when life gives me lemons, I throw them. Sometimes I make lemonade, with and without sugar. Sometimes I let them bury me and I sit there hands over my ears, covered with lemons.

Realistically, much easier said than done. But keeping all the above in mind, keeps me sane, hopefully gives me some kind of perspective.

It sickens me to say that we have to learn to play the "game" to win our goals. To let go a bit, not completely, but to help us be focused and move closer to making a difference. Maybe losing a battle or two, but winning the war. Picking out battles.


In many ways, it's the me/cfs human learning curve.

 

[justinreilly]

What silverblade said! (except i want more than an apology from the criminals. Punishment by society is important partly for deterence and partly for Justice and partly for the symbolic value that the state/society is saying "that was very wrong." of course i would love it if wessely etc came forward now and admitted everything and that would certainly merit some leniency/mitigation in sentencing)

 

[floydguy]

I fully understand the anger of ME patients. I'm angry. Most of us have lost huge parts of our lives to this illness and much of it was due not simply to the illness itself, but the treatment we have received because of the actions of a few individuals and organizations. We have good reason to be angry.

That said -- revenge, while satisfying, is not productive. Communities of people who have been abused in other ways have learned that the desire for revenge holds people back on their path to healing. The reality is that victims very, very rarely get the revenge they want. When you consider the amount of damage done by serial pedophiles to their victims, even the worst punishment society doles out doesn't begin to compare. Fair, no. Reality, yes.

If we want to heal, and I most certainly do, we have to let go of our need for full revenge. That isn't to say that there shouldn't be an accounting. I expect Wesseley et al, and Reeves and the CDC to take a lot of flak and embarrassment. I expect their reputations to take a big hit in the long run. Is that enough? Is that fair? Not really, considering the damage they did. But realistically, it's probably all we are likely to see.

If we hang onto a need for revenge, we will be stuck in these miserable decades and never fully move on with our lives. My goal is to move forward. I can look back on those losers with disgust, but if I wait for revenge I'm convinced I'll be disappointed. If you have doubts about that, look at any other severely abused community. Desire for revenge hurts the victim more than it does the perpetrator.

Sure, let's be angry -- but let's use it to move forward, not hang onto the past.

However, there is the larger issue that goes beyond CFS. Many of the people we've fought against will oppress people with other conditions. Putting the full press on these people will not only keep them from oppressing those with CFS but those with other conditions. In certain situations (perhaps Wessley), people getting there a** handed to them might prevent others from feeling comfortable in taking ridiculous and even unethical positions. It's not necessarily about revenge but attempting to prevent future shenanigans.