Problems with using antibiotics on and off?

[frozenborderline]

if u use doxycycline for anti inflammatory purposes but not for a specific infection, is it bad to stop and start, or is that only when u have an infection that could get resistance?
I'm not treating an infection as far as I know.

I do get headaches with doxycycline which I dont recall in the past.

I dont know if the dangers of antibiotic resistance are overrated. Also wondering what effective doses would be for mmp-9 and other mmp inhibition.
Finally, I'm in an area with too many lyme ticks , and I worry it could mask an initial infection , like make the rash not appear. How much of a concern is that? Even if the abx diminished the rash would they cause a false negative in blood tests?
anyway, thanks

@Hip @rpapen77 @pattismith

 

[frozenborderline]

I wondered about this bc of @Hip and @JenB ideas about mmps and connective tissue

 

[percyval577]

is it bad to stop and start, or is that only when u have an infection that could get resistance?

I dont know if the dangers of antibiotic resistance are overrated. Also wondering what effective doses would be for mmp-9 and other mmp inhibition.

My dermatologist told me that low dose doxy (50mcg) wouldn´t induce any resistance. I don´t know how good this is empirically supported by research, though definitely logical possible when the resistant strains have no advantage over the bigger amount of non-resistant strains.

In normal dose it´s a very very bad idea to stop and start as the resistant strains are favored. You need to start and to kill practically completely! Note also that horizontal gene transfer is a normal mechanism in bacteria, which accounts quite a lot for resistance, if I remember rightly!

Resistance is not overrated, I fear, its a serious danger which may account for many deaths in the future.

 

[Hip]

Also wondering what effective doses would be for mmp-9 and other mmp inhibition.

Only low doses of doxycycline are used for MMP inhibition in periodontal disease.

The drug Periostat, which is used to inhibit the MMPs which cause periodontal disease and gum damage, is just 20 mg of doxycycline. I have read that at this low dose of 20 mg doxycycline, doxycycline does not significantly inhibit gut bacteria.

 

[frozenborderline]

Only low doses of doxycycline are used for MMP inhibition in periodontal disease.

The drug Periostat, which is used to inhibit the MMPs which cause periodontal disease and gum damage, is just 20 mg of doxycycline. I have read that at this low dose of 20 mg doxycycline, doxycycline does not significantly inhibit gut bacteria.

Okay, but any thoughts on whether resistance from using doxy on and off is a problem

 

[Hip]

Okay, but any thoughts on whether resistance from using doxy on and off is a problem

Since low-dose doxy does not really impact on bacteria, I would doubt whether these bacteria would develop resistance.

I don't think antibiotic resistance is an issue anyway in an individual; I believe antibiotic resistance occurs in a similar way to viral mutation: when millions are infected with a virus, a mutated strain can appear.

 

[percyval577]

I don't think antibiotic resistance is an issue anyway in an individual; I believe antibiotic resistance occurs in a similar way to viral mutation: when millions are infected with a virus, a mutated strain can appear.

To my knowledge there appear in an individual strains with properties to survive abx better right after an abx application. After a certain time then the amount of these strains diminishes until after a year there are only very few left. This is due to the fact that a positive property mostly occurs with downsides. Nevertheless a few are left and will enhance their property again as soon as a new application is done.

I also remember vaguely, that every application is a step to a resistant stain, though most virulent is this in ppl who have a lot contact with abx or ppl with abx (doctors, caregivers for old ppl and others).

 

[frozenborderline]

I don't think antibiotic resistance is an issue anyway in an individual; I believe antibiotic resistance occurs in a similar way to viral mutation: when millions are infected with a virus, a mutated strain can appear.

Interesting. I know even at a non low dose , lots of doctors including me/cfs doctors, will prescribe minocycline or the like for neuroinflammation, which is a case where it's off label and you're presuming theres not an infection. In that case it seems more likely people would deviate from taking it daily.


Regardless I know I must pick one soon.

I'm sort of waiting on a losartan script tho, which lowers tgf beta. So I can cover multiple bases at once, connective tissue wise

 

[Hip]

Apparently Periostat (= 20 mg of doxycycline) should not be taken for more than 3 months in a row. See this post. But a study showed that even 9 months of Periostat did not alter the gut microbiome.

 

[frozenborderline]

Apparently Periostat (= 20 mg of doxycycline) should not be taken for more than 3 months in a row. See this post. But a study showed that even 9 months of Periostat did not alter the gut microbiome.

But its not a problem to do the opposite , right?

 

[Hip]

But its not a problem to do the opposite , right?

What do you mean by "the opposite"?

 

[frozenborderline]

What do you mean by "the opposite"?

To take it too infrequently, like a pill once a week or something

 

[Hip]

To take it too infrequently, like a pill once a week or something

I doubt if taking Periostat just once a week will have any significant effect on connective tissue. But it will not affect the microbiome either.

 

[frozenborderline]

I doubt if taking Periostat just once a week will have any significant effect on connective tissue. But it will not affect the microbiome either.

What about doing a course of doxycyline for a week or two

 

[Hip]

What about doing a course of doxycyline for a week or two

I guess you could consider trying it, and seeing if there are any benefits.

 

[heapsreal]

Since low-dose doxy does not really impact on bacteria, I would doubt whether these bacteria would develop resistance.

I don't think antibiotic resistance is an issue anyway in an individual; I believe antibiotic resistance occurs in a similar way to viral mutation: when millions are infected with a virus, a mutated strain can appear.

Also think good and bad bacteria flora change and why it may seem like resistance but alternating between different abx can continue to work.
Recently read that doxycycline may improve c-dif caused by other abx???