Prescript Assist caused lingering lymph swelling/fever even after stopping

[South]

I tried Prescript Assist brand probiotics at a very low dose. Soon afterwards, I started getting a fever type overheating problem. Stopped the prescript assist, and now a few weeks later I STILL have that fever overheating problem, plus now I also have lymph congestion in my neck.

Still? What the heck did I do to myself with this stuff?

Here are the low doses I took: These are the only doses I took.
June 18 1/4 capsule
June 19 1/4 capsule
June 24 1/4 capsule
June 28 1/4 capsule


Could it be "immune activation"? (which I don't really know what that means)
Overgrowth of something in the Prescript Assist?
Maybe leaky gut caused something in the prescript assist to migrate out to the blood?

What?

Any ideas what the heck can I do to get rid of it?

 

[barbc56]

Could it be a virus and coincidental that these two things happened at the same time?

I don't know that much about probiotics other than they replace the needed bacteria when you are on an antibiotic.

What about possible contamination? I would think that would cause an intestinal reaction.

Good luck.

Barb

ETA

Im a bit confused. Are you saying you have a fever? Swollen glands, I would think need to be checked out by a doctor.

 

[South]

Some of the people on Phoenix Rising who are using resistant starch to increase their own existing gut bacteria, experience gland swelling for awhile afterwards.

There are also some hints on other sites of people using certain probiotics and getting this same problem.

@Vegas I know you've written about the kind of bacteria that create LPS (lipopolysaccharide) possible causing this kind of problem, any guesses on if Prescript Assist has that kind of bacteria?

These are the ingredients in Prescript Assist: (sorry to throw such a long list out there for people to read)
Arthrobacter agilis, Arthrobacter citreus, Arthrobacter globiformis, Arthrobacter luteus, Arthrobacter simplex, Acinetobacter calcoaceticus, Azotobacter chroococcum, Azotobacter paspali, Azospirillum brasiliense, Azospirillum lipoferum, Bacillus brevis, Bacillus marcerans, Bacillus pumilus, Bacillus polymyxa, Bacillus subtilis, Bacteroides lipolyticum, Bacteriodes succinogenes, Brevibacterium lipolyticum, Brevibacterium stationis, Kurthia zopfii, Myrothecium verrucaria, Pseudomonas calcis, Pseudomonas dentrificans, Pseudomonas fluorescens, Pseudomonas glathei, Phanerochaete chrysosporium, Streptomyces fradiae, Streptomyces cellulosae, Streptomyces griseoflavus.

 

[adreno]

Some of the people on Phoenix Rising who are using resistant starch to increase their own existing gut bacteria, experience gland swelling for awhile afterwards.

This has happened to me several times, but it normally passes after a few days of stopping or reducing the dose.

PA I believe gave me a sinus infection, that took a while to get over. It might not be safe for everyone.

Have you tried some antimicrobials? Oregano oil seems to work well for me, when I want to reduce the bug load.

 

[South]

@adreno Thanks for the response. How long did it take you to get over the sinus infection, after stopping the prescript assist? (assuming you did stop the prescript assist?)

I have been using antimicrobials, since before even starting/stopping the prescript assist, and have ramped up the antimicrobials in the past week - but no change in symptoms. Used oregano oil, caprylic acid, lactoferrin, all in the past two weeks.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Yeah, I am also looking for ways to optimize the lymphatic clearance in order to restart CB... Meanwwhile I am taking low dose LAB, which I finnally seem to be tolerating apart from the excess GABA.

 

[adreno]

@adreno Thanks for the response. How long did it take you to get over the sinus infection, after stopping the prescript assist? (assuming you did stop the prescript assist?)

I can't remember... a month at least.

 

[South]

@adreno
Thanks, that gives me hope -- I've only been off the prescript assist for about 2 weeks. Maybe in another couple of weeks I'll have gotten rid of this problem I got from it.

@Gondwanaland
I take it you stopped CB (clostridium butyricum) and still have lymphatic congestion, which may have started due to taking the CB? (did I get that right?) How long ago did you stop taking it?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I take it you stopped CB (clostridium butyricum) and still have lymphatic congestion, which may have started due to taking the CB? (did I get that right?) How long ago did you stop taking it?

I took only 2 tabs on May 13 and 15, but made a sequence of mistakes with it which at least helped me to uncover an oxalate issue. Next time I take it will be on a low oxalate diet and supplementation. Shortly after CB (on May 22) I started supplementing Boswellia for joint pain caused by CB, and apparently it caused a worsening in lymph congestion. Plus I was eating everything high oxalates and purines (also worsening uric acid) during that week

I am going to try the Bains Dérivatifs as explained by Asklipia. Gotta find an appropriated basin for that.

I still feel some mild soreness in axillary lymph nodes and neck. Using my rebounder gently (bouncing w/o lifting my feet) has been helping some.

 

[South]

There is a thread here.....
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/sulfite-sulfate-and-ammonia-questions.27211/page-5
in which Vegas writes about lymphatic congestion as a result of taking bifido type probiotics.

....in case anyone reading this thread wants more feedback on this issue.

The lymphatic congestion I got from Prescript Assist is in my neck, not in the groin/lower part of the body, like Vegas wrote about.

 

[South]

@Gondwanaland So that's almost 2 months after stopping the c. butyricum, and still some congestion in the lymph?

Maybe the c. butyricum displaced some other bacteria that were the kind that can break down oxalates, and since then any oxalates you eat cause problems?

My lymph issue is really awful right now, despite following a diet that used to keep most of my gut problems at bay - my neck tonight is just throbbing at both sides.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I didn't like Bifido only, and will keep taking it together with the no-lactate strains as I reported here.

Maybe the c. butyricum displaced some other bacteria that were the kind that can break down oxalates, and since then any oxalates you eat cause problems?

CB allowed me to tolerate acidophilus.

I think my oxalate issues have been going on for several years and just now I realized what it was.

The CB thread gave origin to a Oxalate thread (link in my sig) and we speculate that CB increases endogenous conversion from vitamin K1 into K2, which chelates calcium from oxalates, releasing oxalates which go thru the lymph system and I seem to have a lot of oxalates in my body. My mother had kidney stones some years ago, so it's probably some family issue (no idea of which SNPs involved).

I wonder if some cold packs on your neck would relieve your discomfort?

 

[South]

I wonder if some cold packs on your neck would relieve your discomfort?

They do, thank you for mentioning it - I had two icy ones (and I don't mean beer!) last night.

My neck lymph glands feel better this morning than last night - I took an herbal laxative as I was somewhat backed up yesterday, and that helped - being backed up in the gut seems to aggravate this lymph thing.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Are you having hormonal hot flashes?

being backed up in the gut seems to aggravate this lymph thing

Definetly

I took an herbal laxative

What did you take? Last time I imported supplements I ordered a herbal supp for constipation, but when it arrived I realized all herbs were at the top of the very high oxalate list So I am looking for alternatives

 

[whodathunkit]

So I am looking for alternatives

Magnesium...?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Magnesium...?

I could take 600mg daily of MgO with no effect on BM's, then I took 800mg and would get loose stools
Right now I am not tolerating any form (oxide, citrate) of Mg very well b/c it gives me stiff calves (I think it's calcium, and I don't want to supplement calcium for several reasons). However some weeks ago I pushed it up to 400mg (or was it 600?) with Mg citrate with no effect on BM's either

 

[South]

@Gondwanaland No on the hormonal question - have never had a hot flash, although I'm of the right age to and female. The feeling hot issue started a few days after the Prescript Assist, and it's not a "flash", it's just a general I'm too warm-ness. Haven't used a thermometer though, guess I should next time (if) it comes back.

Since the herbal lax yesterday, I'm much better today - hardly any warmth issues and no neck lymph swelling.

On days I restrict carbs since the week of taking the Prescript Assist, I don't seem to get the problem with feeling warm, and on days I eat more carbs it seems worse. (I don't eat much sugar, I'm talking about complex carbs here)

Maybe the Prescript Assist aggravated some SIBO in my upper gut or something.

A little off topic for this thread - if you sometimes need a little help with constipation, and the herbals are too oxalate-y and the magnesium oxide or citrate aggravate your calcium issues, you could try epsom salts - they are magnesium but it's a form that isn't absorbed well into the blood thus doesn't seem to throw off calcium balance. But warning, it takes some experimentation to find the right dose with it, too much versus not enough. Some people feel it is too dehyrating, but that may be just if they took too much and had too many bathroom visits.

 

[zzz]

Right now I am not tolerating any form (oxide, citrate) of Mg very well b/c it gives me stiff calves

@Gondwanaland, muscle symptoms such as stiff calves are the #1 symptom of hypokalemia, and hypokalemia is much more likely to result from an increase in magnesium intake than hypocalcemia. Oral magnesium supplementation gets only a limited amount of magnesium in the body; from your posts, I know that you are very sensitive to magnesium supplementation, which paradoxically is typically indicative of a severe magnesium deficiency. I would think that it would be best to treat this deficiency and add other electrolytes as needed. Hypocalcemia would be an issue here only if you were severely calcium deficient, which sounds unlikely.

 

[South]

@Gondwanaland And if low potassium (hypokalemia), rather than low calcium, is indeed the issue, then DON'T do the epsom salts idea I suggested - it causes a mild loss of fluid which could aggravate low potassium!

 

[Vegas]

Some of the people on Phoenix Rising who are using resistant starch to increase their own existing gut bacteria, experience gland swelling for awhile afterwards.

There are also some hints on other sites of people using certain probiotics and getting this same problem.

@Vegas I know you've written about the kind of bacteria that create LPS (lipopolysaccharide) possible causing this kind of problem, any guesses on if Prescript Assist has that kind of bacteria?

These are the ingredients in Prescript Assist: (sorry to throw such a long list out there for people to read)
Arthrobacter agilis, Arthrobacter citreus, Arthrobacter globiformis, Arthrobacter luteus, Arthrobacter simplex, Acinetobacter calcoaceticus, Azotobacter chroococcum, Azotobacter paspali, Azospirillum brasiliense, Azospirillum lipoferum, Bacillus brevis, Bacillus marcerans, Bacillus pumilus, Bacillus polymyxa, Bacillus subtilis, Bacteroides lipolyticum, Bacteriodes succinogenes, Brevibacterium lipolyticum, Brevibacterium stationis, Kurthia zopfii, Myrothecium verrucaria, Pseudomonas calcis, Pseudomonas dentrificans, Pseudomonas fluorescens, Pseudomonas glathei, Phanerochaete chrysosporium, Streptomyces fradiae, Streptomyces cellulosae, Streptomyces griseoflavus.

There are some gram-negative organisms contained in this product that thus contain LPS, but they are not enriched with endotoxins. In fact the outer cell walls of most of the gram negative commensals contain therein have lipids that can neutralize endotoxins to some degree. This is the way that it should work in healthy humans and why you are experiencing so much pain. They symptoms are created by the combination of hyperpermeability and a lack of commensals to neutralize the endotoxins, well that is part of it. The gram positive organisms also have their own endotoxins like Lipoteichoic acid (LTA), but these do not elicit the same robust immune response. Honestly as I have started to cross through another threshold, I get the sense I am knocking down some of those gram positive pathogens...probably lactate synthesizers. This should settle down over time for you.

I haven't taken PA in about 2 years, but I am less enamored by this product today. It has exactly some of the organisms we need like the pseudomonas organisms, but an abundance of organisms that are bound to create some havoc...not pathogens, but probably not the best choice. Smaller amounts of prebiotics and even providing the medium in which these organism live might be a better choice. Although i haven't heard that this was particularly beneficial. It's just so hard to consistently re-create favorable conditions in a context of hyperpermeabilty by supplementing microbes. Safer choice involves throwing down some growth factors...although it milder cases the butyrate synthesizer does seem to offer some advantages. Lately I've had greater success focusing on arabinoxylan from oat bran.