Preliminary result of furthered improvement obviously leading to health

[percyval577]

I think I have found a cure at lest for my CFS, its complex though. It contains:

1. restrictions / avoidances (maybe prerequisite)
2. taking almost all of the following stuff in small amounts but more constantly, dosage is key
3. taking the majority of the stuff separatly
4. adjustment molecules (for readjusting actions in rather good circumstances from 1.)
5. inhibitory electrolytes
6. selenium
7. distributions of metals
8. distributions of some vitB´s
9. plant oil (don´t exactly know why)

The idea is that triggers have transiently changed action of nerves in the pronounced geometrical structures of the brain (non-specific thalamus and basal ganglia), and now the are trapped in a normal acting, which though is all together not reflecting anymore the complete structure.

Concrete there are two main traps:

• the nucleus caudatus is a funnel, so action potential from behind will need more and more support to come forth until it reaches the nucleus accumbens (speculative though, and still not provable)
• the basal ganglia project to one small nucleus in the middle of the thalmus, and here its projections to the long non-specific nucleus intralaminares will hinder a proper wave of unknown length or action in cells to come forth, and resonating back.

The basal ganglia then are known to be vulnerable. They may also display very geometrical actions in the putamen and the globus pallidus, which are wheel shaped.

My triggers are:

1. borrelia containing Mn, which are known to acculmulate in the substantia nigra in dopaminergic nerurons near their nuclei, and from fume inducing a parkinson like disease without degeneration. (Manganese also elevates NO when LPS are present, and play a crucial role in innate immunity).
2. maybe fluoride, which acts on typical neurotranmitters in the basal ganglia
3. EBV
   • which blocks VitD receptor eg decoding for manganese exporter ZnT10, possibly matching up with 1.
   • which alters in a consequence potassium currents.
   • which acts on dUTPase, which is in a fly associated with neuroplasticity, possibly matching up with NO (which is responsible for the learning mechanism, acting on all sorts of nerves) induced from Mn.
   • I have forgotten right now other actions.

The main thing may be that basal ganglia and the non-specific thalamus need to be especially plasticable for making the being able to behave and adjust itself in the current situation, say on mondays or in a wood, or when making art, asf. Therefore they are a vulnerable in itself, and are in human beings especially big. The body itself needs plasticity, eg, when being blind and wanting to read with fingers. It wouldn´t be surprising when this structure influence some othe parts.

There might be predispositions: epigenetics, psycholoigal (without that any part of the illness itself is psychological driven), genetics, microbiome, maybe more.

However, I think the method should be key. I have (and using straws for being friendly to my teeth):

1. manganese, fluoride, caffeine, alcohol, bread and to lower extent other complex carbs
2. as having said, crucially
3. as having said, importantly
4. magnesium, potassium, chloride together with hydrogencarbonate (being very very carefully)
5. acetate, vitB12, citrate (see also 7.), vitC
6. selenium
7. nickel, chromium, zinc!, aluminum - all in chocolate. A chelator is citrate.
8. B5. 2, 7, 1, (maybe sometimes 3). Alcohol might lead to some release and exhaustion.
9. olive and linseed oil

VitE is still to be evaluated. The main question is if instead of the idea mentioned above, the improvement is due to my low manganese diet alone, and all the other stuff only helps to put up the structure again, and the brain would do so anyway within some time. It´s not possible to decide. If not so, the question is, if not the structure influences eg the manganese dependent actions, so that I could have shortened the long and difficult improvement since autumn 2015.

I like to be optimistic, and think that a lot of mysterious diseases (maybe mostly FND´s, misclassified as mental disorders) might be influenceable this way, at least when there is no inert other error. It also may be helpful in general aging. But without getting a feeling and probably some imagination it will not work, listening to what is happening.

When there is another inert error, it could be dangerous, as all the readjustment might serve a further breakdown. But if the geometrical structure has gotten worse than nesessarily induced by the inert other error (which may happen easily as the structure is very plasticible), then it would work until a certain success at least. After all, I can only speak from my experience.

 

[percyval577]

It has gotten a bit simpler.

A)

Low Manganese and intake of Selenium are the main thing, surprisingly,
pointing to H2O2 (esp in the putamen, I think)

Selenium sometimes with B2 or B1 or B7, and this may be a good order, say first day with B2 asf.

For the 4th time Nickel turns out to be of surprising importance. I have described the effect in 2018 here: threads/a-nickel-effect.60979/

It could well be a good idea to take a combo of B´s sometimes, I found small sips helpful, stretching the intake.


B) NO inhibitors with some other action each. Taking sips only. Leaving 1 -10 minutes between sips:

Acetate (one or very few drops in 0.4 L water)
VitC and B12 (240mg and 50mcg, resp.)
Citrate (tip of a knife)

It can be easily too much (!)
With citrate I need to eat a bit of chocolate sometimes (with good effect), as citrate is a chelator, and chocolate contains metals.


B) during the summer I combine this with inhibitory electrolytes. It takes tension away.

acetate
VitC + B12 and Mg (250mg) + Cl (a drop from 33g in 1 L water) or taking mineral water instead
citrate
K (150mg)

Here also unsatured fatty acids may be mentioned, especially after acetate.
Another good effect I recently got from VitC with protein shakes without any B´s, of course, after fatty acids.
Cl needs HCO3- for entering the brain, which is contained in these Vit-water supps or mineralwater anyway.


C) restrictions

Manganese, as mentioned
Alcohol, and too much or even any (!) Caffeine, sadly

Two other things I found to be of effect are meat and complex carbs, so I avoid to eat them together at least. As I had forgotten the now mentioned Nickel thing, it may or may not be important. Same with EMF from computers and TV (calcium influx).

I don´t know if it can translate to others. I could imagine that this is not too seldom, though.
Coming back later with arguments.

 

[percyval577]

By accident I did in May everything right, and it caused a rather wonderful summer, at least I was active with one thing round the clock, apart from normal sleeping time.

But as a matter of principle, I don´t keep up with supps for a longer time, and it was also not clear which of the things having done did it, so I finally relatively deteriorated as mid of September.

I have posted yesterday the post above for reminding myself on the caffeine issue, though forgot Nickel, which I now reintroduce for the 4th time with a surptising effect. I edited the post therefore.


The basic practical question underlying this example of a combo may rely on this simplified construction:

Imagine, there are waves encoded in a part of the nervous system (having downstream effects), and this has gotten here exaggerated and there silenced, how could it be possible to reestablish a proper wave formation. Therefore even more important than What to take may well be How to take it, and how Much to take. In my experience this is so far key even before the most important what´s, so far at least.


Concretely speaking, my guess - and this is not already possible to Show, as far as I am aware - is firstly that in the wheel-shaped putamen a round shape or a spiral shaped action of synapses wants to take place. But vertically short cuts happen as well, encoded by manganese using mechanisms. And e.g. this has gotten disturbed and is perpetuated by biological algorithms.

Most of the threads (with providing literature) I have made so far had been thought to fit in here, and most of them may still do. Though they are still a stub, not surprisingly.


Looking forward, indeed.

 

[Pyrrhus]

By accident I did in May everything right, and it caused a rather wonderful summer, at least I was active with one thing round the clock, apart from normal sleeping time.

But as a matter of principle, I don´t keep up with supps for a longer time, and it was also not clear which of the things having done did it, so I finally relatively deteriorated as mid of September.

I'm sorry to hear about your deterioration in September.

At least you had a good summer!

 

[percyval577]

I'm sorry to hear about your deterioration in September.

At least you had a good summer!

Yes, indeed. Thanks for your sympathy. It was comparable very mild,
though enough then to wish for any nice life.

 

[percyval577]

some hot vitamin B wisdom [after 250mg magnesium (retarding), and a quarter zinc retarding supplement]

• Modul 1) - B2 or B1 or B7 (starting with B1 is the best)
• Modul 2) - combination of (little ) B5 and (very little) B3, i.e. at the same time)

Modul 1 can be drunken in a sip immediately followed by a sip from Modul 2

Modul 1 I put amounts mentioned below in 2cl, and from this water only a teaspoon or even less in 0.2 l water (until now with a drop of vitD, being aware of sideeffects and 1/8th tablet of Mg containing also citrate)

Modul 2 also in 2 cl and putting half a teaspoon in black (ceylon!) tea, containing some manganese, or in water (can be hot, it nevertheless remains enough of the B´s to work.)


B2 - 2.5 mg
B1 - 50mg
B7 - 2.5mg

B5 - 2mg
B3 - only a tiny bit from a capsula

 

[percyval577]

Immediately after wakeing I use inhibitory stuff water, slowly drinking and not too much,
good effect may stop after a few sips - in 0.5l:

vitC, 1.5 tablets containing also citrate
vitB12, one drop
chloride - two drops from a MgCl solution of 33g in 1 l water
plus zinc (actually from the vitC suppöement) which is very very nice and probably as well helpful

 

[percyval577]

in my impression the following scheme on geometrical patterns helps thinking
(specifically in the basal ganglia and non specific thalamus)

A sidewards (in the direction of the two ears)
B forewards (in the direction of the eyes)
C asymmetrical round (like being high from drugs)
Ac acetate (vinegar) ... vC vitamin C ... vD vitamin D



..... A .................................... B .......................................................C

..... B6 ..................... B2 -> B1 -> B7 (-> B3) ....................... B5 ............................................. some of the B-vitamins

..... Mn ..................... Al ..... Zn ..//.. Cr ...................................... Ni ...........................................................metals

..... K ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Cl .................................................. (Mg) .........................................................inhibitory electrolytes

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, B12 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Ac ..........................., vC ... vD.............................................................NO-inhibitors

..........................................................LYS..........................................................................................................amino acids


The etiology then would be that any impacts have caused a disbalance of nerve actions in their geometrical pattern,
which is preserved because every cell still acts only after its inherent algorithm.

The cure then is to reestablish a nice geometrical pattern (along the geometrical macro-structure) - quite complicate.

 

[percyval577]

a new spirit:

Mixing (small amounts of) the stuff (single applications) with Tyrosine (tiny bit of it) -> Dopamine system.


If the the disease would be purely neurological, this then I would call the solution.
Looking foreward to assess the progress.


Apart from the stuff for which I have given my (personal) impressions how they work geometrically,
EVERY stuff may well work like so.

Accordingly, the main thing here is, to induce one geometrical action at a time,
untangeling peu à peu what has hereafter become tangeled up by too much an amount of any of one or two.
Otherwise - like in normal meals - one would confirm a chaos structure.

Therefore it´s unimportant if my concrete impressions given in the last post would be reproduced by anyone else.

 

[percyval577]

So I tried BCAA´s, and they work in this manner too. Otherwise the intervention is a bit restricted, possibly b/c other stuff is missing in my household to get applicated in that manner right now.

There are 20 amino acids, and I have only LYS, and the three BCAA´s until now, apart from TYR, which is in small amounts the helper (pre-dopamine). Say there are missing 8, and it would be enough to slow down the improvement significantly.

There are round about 25 metals important or suppossely important, same thing (don´t see the details right now though).


With the amino acids there is a trick that works in a limited way: drinking whey proteins and some few minutes thereafter a mix of inhibitory molecules (I use the last mentioned one), but its limited to one application in a certain time frame, and not as clean as the single applications.



The idea that its mainly a wrong pattern which exceeds by far the normal variance for readjustment would be consistent enough with the following recent findings, if I am not mistaken:

Nayaran et al 2020
Informatics Inference of Exercise-Induced Modulation of Brain Pathways Based on Cerebospinal Fluid Micro-RNA in [ME/CFS]

Germain et al 2021
In-Depth Analysis of the Plasma Proteome in [ME/CFS] Exposes Disrupted Ephrin-Eph and Immune System Signaling

 

[Learner1]

@percyval577 Interesting thread. However, it's not making any sense to me. I take almost all of those nutrients, which I find helpful, based on lab testing. I've found the ratio of each nutrient to the others is important, along with time if day and activity.

It is not clear to me what problem you're trying to solve and what products in what doses you're taking. I'm also confused about your "sipping" vitamins. Most of those things taste awful by themselves, taking them out of capsules would result in nausea for me.

Is there another way you can explain this? Id like to understand it better. Thanks!

 

[gbells]

There is no evidence that ME is due to nutritional deficiency.

 

[percyval577]

@percyval577 Interesting thread. However, it's not making any sense to me. I take almost all of those nutrients, which I find helpful, based on lab testing. I've found the ratio of each nutrient to the others is important, along with time if day and activity.

It is not clear to me what problem you're trying to solve and what products in what doses you're taking. I'm also confused about your "sipping" vitamins. Most of those things taste awful by themselves, taking them out of capsules would result in nausea for me.

Is there another way you can explain this? Id like to understand it better. Thanks!

You would be on the path of the thread when you say daytime and ratio.

I am going to elaborate.

There is no evidence that ME is due to nutritional deficiency.

And this is what the thread is basically saying, i.e. rather there is no absolute deficiency, all stuff may be totally normal and even if not, to bring them in for normalization wouldn´t do the thing (according to the idea, and according to experience which says you may be helped but not cured).

But there is the idea of a relative deficiency popping up to one time point in a certain environment, if one wants to correct X, though the single nerve cell don´t know about any X.

The single nerve cell though may well be waiting for any stuff which may well be released by the body to induce the action of the nerve cell, say NI: NIckel comes and the algorithm of the cell now reacts and induces a firing in direction A, or maybe Chromium comes, and the same cell may well react with firing in direction B.

Or B12 comes, and a nerve cell may well stopp firing in direction C or VitC comes and the same nerve cell may well stopp firing in direction D.

Asf.


The idea is, that any impact has taken place and changed such direction, in my case probabaly manganese. So this is now preserved, and the concrete net of possible firings is changed. None of the cells now it, they still follow their algorithm but the being feels otherwise (bad here).

So, how can it get corrected? It exceeds the natural frame of variances (b/c of the huge impact, in my case from borrelia and EBV) -

And the answer of the thread is: you do this stuff into the body so that the cells are changing the shape of network again.

So I make myself a story, what direction any stuff might induce, and then I peu à peu I build story so to say, taking a bit this and a bit later that. And it works!

But one may well learn to "listen" into the brain, and this may well take some time. No lab test will ever say that you now could change the action of these or that nerves!

 

[percyval577]

In the body there are fluiding metals around and aminos asf. If only a littel bit comes into the stomach or even into the mouth, all particels of the same stuff will get closer to each other, and more of the stuff will enter a cell. Therefore, everything works pretty promptly.


with the metals I admit that I got some of them from pieces of metals in my flat, holding them into water for half a second. Tiny bit of atoms may release into the water. Its even too strong. Aluminum is a very weak metal, so I put a drop in another vessel, this even four or five times, with chromium only two times, with nickel three or four times, As I said in my nickel thread, I don´t know what to say about the method, is it safe or not, but it works.

Note that e.g. from chromium a certain amount of atoms will turn into Cr7+ ions which are known to cause cancer. Therefore is on Cr supplements the advise, to limit the time of usage, b/c chromium will store up in the cell, and then a certain amount will turn into the 7+ ions. I took some supps (the normal method), and now the metal-water method is indeed a bit stronger, so that I even could think about a threetimes water.

Eating sometimes chocolate - which is rich in metals - might be neccessary to feel the effect. Zinc I take in a almost normal dose, well, a quarter.


And so with all other stuff, regardless of tasting or anything. Sometimes, the lesser the better.

 

[percyval577]

From the above scheme, I can say that a mix of metals is not good, a mix of aminos might be possible, and a mix of inhibitors differs not too much from single application, though this may well be often the better choice. It found it to be a very bad idea to take all five of the inhibitory stuff at once.

It seems to be a good idea to mix two things of different category, say metal and inhibitor asf. Some combinations may well be especially helpful.

 

[gbells]

And this is what the thread is basically saying, i.e. rather there is no absolute deficiency, all stuff may be totally normal and even if not, to bring them in for normalization wouldn´t do the thing (according to the idea, and according to experience which says you may be helped but not cured).

But there is the idea of a relative deficiency popping up to one time point in a certain environment, if one wants to correct X, though the single nerve cell don´t know about any X.

There are a lot of bioindividual differences based on our genetics, preferred diet, stress states but that's no different than anyone else. I think with HHV-6 viral infection the main thing is combining protein and carbs to increase tryptophan absorption. But otherwise I don't know that ME induces any other nutritional quirks into the mix that need to be addressed. I am an advocate of appetite based eating in general.

I can't really identify anything I need after ME that I didn't need before. I think the main problems we have in the USA are: soil depletion of minerals causing low mineral levels in vegetables, degradation of the fish stock and excess glyfosate in the food chain messing up people's intestinal bacteria. I supplement a lot of minerals-selenium, trace minerals, magnesium, manganese, copper which I think is mostly due to soil depletion from commercial farming.

 

[JES]

I agree with above, I don't understand exactly this thread. If you adjust the intake of minerals and vitamins, I think you need to have some kind a reference, like blood measurements, to see if you lack in selenium. Otherwise you are just guessing as there are a million of different combinations you could take if you factor in every single vitamin, mineral and trace element.

 

[gbells]

I agree with above, I don't understand exactly this thread. If you adjust the intake of minerals and vitamins, I think you need to have some kind a reference, like blood measurements, to see if you lack in selenium. Otherwise you are just guessing as there are a million of different combinations you could take if you factor in every single vitamin, mineral and trace element.

The body has internal nerve sensors for when a nutrient gets low, it is essential for survival for wild animals eating natural diets. The gut has so many neurons it is called the second brain. Unfortunately for most people this is a vestigial sense and they are not aware of how to tune into it.

Dietetics largely ignores this however and just gives everyone a one size fits all estimation. A small percentage of dieticians follow a flawed system called Intuitive Eating that tries to do this but it isn't very sensitive or specific.

I can track all of the minerals this way and it is very obvious when I need selenium, the enteric gut brain shouts it loudly. Getting that out is another of my post-ME projects that I am looking forward to.

 

[percyval577]

I agree with above, I don't understand exactly this thread. If you adjust the intake of minerals and vitamins, I think you need to have some kind a reference, like blood measurements, to see if you lack in selenium. Otherwise you are just guessing as there are a million of different combinations you could take if you factor in every single vitamin, mineral and trace element.

Well, already per prerequisite the method demands that you feel the effect. So, this would be a task, to develop a kind of imagination.

The approach is not about deficiency, but is comparable to the derivative in mathmatics. It´s only in respect of some nerves (non-specific ones).

Another question is, how much an influence it is. Is it only a help for symptoms which will get destroyed soon enough again, or is it possible to readjust the affected nerves again on the long run?

 

[gbells]

Well, already per prerequisite the method demands that you feel the effect. So, this would be a task, to develop a kind of imagination.

The approach is not about deficiency, but is comparable to the derivative in mathmatics. It´s only in respect of some nerves (non-specific ones).

Another question is, how much an influence it is. Is it only a help for symptoms which will get destroyed soon enough again, or is it possible to readjust the affected nerves again on the long run?

If you have a bacterial infection then tell your doctor and get on some antibiotics.