Potassium Arsenite 0.05% Cures CFS in Falcons, so what about humans?

[Hip]

CFS is a diagnosis of exclusion and the criteria referred to (CDC working case definition) apply to humans not other species.

That does not imply that animals can't get ME/CFS though.

Besides that, as any good vet or doctor will tell you, bacterial (Staph) septicaemia is treated with antibiotics, not arsenicals.

Nevertheless, the bacteremia that Dr Tarello and his wife had was well-documented, did not improve on antibiotics, but vanished after potassium arsenite treatment:

Blood cultures proved Staph-positive and micrococci-like organisms in the blood were repeatedly observed in the 3-year period preceding the arsenical therapy, during which several medicaments, including antibiotics, proved unsuccessful. Following treatment with a low dosage arsenical drug (potassium arsenite 0.5%, im., 1 ml/12 h, for 10 days) both patients experienced complete remission. At the post-treatment control made 1 month later, micrococci had disappeared from the blood, and the CD4/CD8 ratio was raising.

Source: 1

Though it is possible that the potassium arsenite treatment may have also acted on other infections present in these patients and animals, such as on a coxsackievirus B infection. Since coxsackievirus B has some immunosuppressive properties, I wonder if that might have been the cause of the bacteremia. Analogously, human ME/CFS patients get gut dysbiosis, which is a bacterial overgrowth, and perhaps due to immunosuppression.

 

[Isabelle]

That does not imply that animals can't get ME/CFS though.



Nevertheless, the bacteremia that Dr Tarello and his wife had was well-documented, did not improve on antibiotics, but vanished after potassium arsenite treatment:

.

Respectfully, it does imply that you can’t use the CDC working case definition to diagnose it in animals.


I would also assume that treating yourself and your wife in this way was both off label and illegal in many parts of the world.

 

[Hip]

Respectfully, it does imply that you can’t use the CDC working case definition to diagnose it in animals.

Nobody used the CDC criteria for CFS to diagnose animals. It's not possible anyway; you can't ask an animal whether it has unrefreshing sleep or headaches, for example.

I don't know much about it, but presume CFS diagnosis animals comes down to the vet's observations, experience and judgement.

Dr Tarello used the CDC criteria to diagnose himself and his wife.

I have never heard of any other human ME/CFS patients with bacteremia though.

 

[Isabelle]

Nobody used the CDC criteria for CFS to diagnose animals. It's not possible anyway; you can't ask an animal whether it has unrefreshing sleep or headaches, for example.

I don't know much about it, but presume CFS diagnosis animals comes down to the vet's observations, experience and judgement.

Dr Tarello used the CDC criteria to diagnose himself and his wife.

I have never heard of any other human ME/CFS patients with bacteremia though.

To my knowledge the label CFS is not routinely used to diagnose animals. Dr Tarello used the CDC criteria here:

'To evaluate the association with a presumptive staphylococcal infection and bacteremia, seven dogs and eight cats diagnosed with CFS (two meeting the CDC working case definition) were submitted to rapid blood cultures and fresh blood smears investigations.'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11440190

 

[Hip]

Dr Tarello used the CDC criteria here:

'To evaluate the association with a presumptive staphylococcal infection and bacteremia, seven dogs and eight cats diagnosed with CFS (two meeting the CDC working case definition) were submitted to rapid blood cultures and fresh blood smears investigations.'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11440190

I never noticed that. That is a bit odd. It does not make much sense, as many of the CDC CFS case definition symptoms would be hard if not impossible to observe in animals.

I assume in general vets will just observe animal behavior to try to diagnose ME/CFS, along with physical signs such as swollen lymph nodes and a chronic sore throat.

 

[healthyalmonds]

BUMP... I experiencing a severe flair up of CFS. Have been bed-bound for two weeks with horrible flu-like symptoms and the feeling as if I've been hit over the head with a frying pan. I feel as if I'm dying. At the onset of this particular flair up was a herpes I break-out AND impetigo. It is my gut feeling that I have a low-grade chronic staph infection throughout my entire body. Thanks to the research you guys have done, I'll have enough info to show my doctor, who is open to trying new treatments. If you've heard anything new about Staphylococcus Spp. and how it relates to CFS, I'd love to hear it.

To ameliorate concerns about a chronic Staph infection, ask your doctor to check your nose and ears for the presence of Staphylococcus aureus. If you test positive, topical antibiotics such as Mupirocin or Triple Antibiotic Ointment may be prescribed or recommended.

 

[humanzee]

I had recurring staph infections prior to getting CFS! I had antibiotics for every staph infection and then went all out at the end - using the technique they use to tackle MRSA. I got rid of the infections but a couple of weeks later the CFS symptons started. Now, 21 months later i'm still battling CFS.

Writing this just made me realise I don't think i've been tested for staph since the infections stopped. I presumed I had won that battle since the infections stopped. Hmmm, time to get tested.

Anyway, I was going to ask whether you think the arsenic treatment might work for me (if I infact still have staph) or is the staph Dr Tarello had different because he caught it from animals? Anyway, i'm definitely going to the doctor next week to get tested for this and will report back.