periodontal disease

[Virginia]

Just when I thought there wasn't anything new my body could present, I discover have periodontal disease......with clean teeth. I am told an immune system that is out of control over reacts to normal bacteria. I hope someone can suggest management and treatment. "Deep Cleaning" every 3 months at a hefty price doesn't seem logical. VitaPick??? Increased supplements?? Thanks, Virginia

 

[Jody]

Hi Virginia,

Welcome to the forums.

Vitamin D deficiency can contribute to tooth decay. Found that out when we discovered our son who has cfs, had a mouth full of cavities and needed a root canal.

 

[Lily]

Virginia....

From what I've read, Sjogren's syndrome isn't all that uncommon in people with FM/CFS. A few of the symptoms include dry skin, mouth and eyes - dry mucous membranes in general, and when that occurs in the mouth, periodontal disease follows. I'm sure there could be many other explanations, but sometimes this one overlooked.

 

[dannybex]

From what I've read, Sjogren's syndrome isn't all that uncommon in people with FM/CFS. A few of the symptoms include dry skin, mouth and eyes - dry mucous membranes in general, and when that occurs in the mouth, periodontal disease follows. I'm sure there could be many other explanations, but sometimes this one overlooked.

Hi Virginia,

I'm currently dealing with dry eyes (or dryer, weaker than usual), and slightly dry mucous membranes, but just for the last 2-3 weeks or so. They've been microscopically better the past few days...I added more EFA's (which I had stopped a few months back) and yes, vitamin D and A. Also a vision supplement...cheap, from Trader Joes.

I don't think I have Sjogren's (my mouth isn't very dry at all), but I agree that it can overlap. Periodontal problems are VERY common with FM/CFS...many folks have found hidden infections under their crowns or fillings and have found some benefit in having them repaired.

I'm waaaaaay overdue for dental work, but can't afford it, so am managing with flossing, etc., plus have heard that peppermint oil (and other oils) can be quite helpful, as can CoQ10, vitamin c, and bioflavonoids.

just my two cents,

Dan

p.s. A waterpik-type irrigator is very helpful too. Also a rinse/mouthwash called Biotene.

 

[caledonia]

I had dry mouth and eyes too. My doctor called it "sicca syndrome" which is not quite Sjogren's but will still cause cavities, gritty eyes when using the computer, etc.

The best thing I've found is to greatly increase essential fatty acids, via pharmaceutical grade fish oil. I take 12 Grams per day. At one time I was up to as much as 18 Grams per day. At those doses you want pharmaceutical grade so you can be sure it doesn't have mercury in it. Read Barry Sears book The Zone on how to dose the fish oil and how it all works in the body. It also does many other great things, such is alleviate pain, PMS, help mood, etc.

You should also suspect adrenal fatigue and get that tested and treated with the help of a naturopath. (Regular doctors won't have a clue.) I'm still working on this part, because I've had so much trouble tolerating adrenal supplements. In theory, once I get my adrenals working again, I won't need so much fish oil.

My dentist uses something I call the supersonic gum zapper. There's an official name for it, I can never remember. Anyway, it's a very high pitched sonic thing + water they aim at your gums and it kills all the bacteria. They use it every time I go. It helps keep my gums in good shape.

 

[Mark]

I have periodontal disease too, had an operation to pare down my underlying enamel and now on 3-monthly deep cleans. As I'm sure you know, the root cause is a bacterial infection below the surface enamel where brushing can't reach it. I've long thought it was related to the rest of my symptoms, as a vulnerability to infection, and I've seen one article on periodontal disease mentioning a link to CFS. But I'm afraid I don't really have anything to suggest beyond the sense that it is clearly related somehow, and the excellent advice of Athene. I clean thoroughly after every meal using those little wire 'toothpick' brushes that let you get down into all the little gaps, and I also rinse/mouthwash a lot. I found the regular mouthwashes made the rest of my symptoms worse though, so chlorhexidineand salt water are probably the best plans.

 

[Virginia]

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to reply, but I am so challenged that computer using is difficult, so I hope you all will know how to access this general message. I go to a new (and hopefully compassionate) dentist today with your inputs....thank you ......this forum is a lifeline for me! Virginia

 

[Jenny]

Hi Virginia

Only just seen your message.

I had very severe periodontal disease 20 years ago after nearly 10 years with ME. Several of my teeth were becoming loose (and I was only 40). I had surgery on all four quandrants (this decreases the depth of the pockets). I was also told I should have root planing (deep ultrasonic cleaning of each tooth to the roots) every 3 months. I've mostly been able to get to the periodontist for this every 3 months, only missing occasionally because of severe relapses.

The surgery was tremendously successful. After a few years, X rays showed the bone had regrown and the teeth tightened up. I will always have to carefully floss and clean between all my teeth every time I brush and have 3 monthly root planing. But if I didn't I would loose my teeth.

It's really important to get this sorted out. Apart from tooth loss, there also seems to be a link between periodontal disease and heart disease. (I don't think it's known if this is causal though.)

Hope your appointment went well.

Jenny

 

[strawberry]

Periodontal disease has always been a big problem for me. Patches of it appear and last for months and by the time I get the existing ones under control more appear in other parts of my mouth. I have lots of severe gum recession. The gum and bone literally dissolve. I've also noticed that if I eat something sugary my gums bleed more when I brush later. I spend a good half hour brushing, cleaning between the teeth with little brushes, and then flossing to keep things under control.

Before I got CFS bad 10 years ago I had many bouts of PVFS 4-6 months long over the years, and I mean with all the neuroimmune/PEM/alcohol intolerance symptoms of CFS. And I noticed that I'd get persistent bleeding gums then and it would stop when the PVFS spontaneously resolved.

 

[Molly29]

Teeth and Gums

I use a really good all natural formula called TOOTH AND GUM...this blurb is from their website....

Tooth and Gum Formula from Dr. Schulze's
STRENGTHENS and TIGHTENS gums and REDUCES inflammation
DISINFECTS and KILLS germs and bacteria in your entire mouth
FRESHENS breath, relieves pain.

Herbal Ingredients: White Oak Bark, Bayberry Root Bark, Tea Tree Oil, Echinacea Angustifolia Root, Habanero Pepper, Peppermint Oil

I swish it around in my mouth after flossing and add 2 "dropperfuls"
to my natural toothpaste and brush my teeth with it.

Works VERY WELL....for me

Molly

 

[Adam]

I have peridontal disease too. 80% bone loss in upper jaw, 50% in lower and am due for a deep clean/antibiotics injected into root of teeth...I think!

Geez!

 

[kerrilyn]

I was just wondering yesterday how many PWC had 'bad teeth'? Before or after they got sick? And how teeth issues are linked to heart ailments.

My mom had peridontal disease in ther 30's. She had lovely straight teeth without a lot of cavities/fillings. My brother inherited her teeth. I got a crooked mess full of cavities. A mouth full of metal fillings and a few root canals and I'm the one 'sick' one of the family. My dentist keeps a regular check on peridontal disease with me too.

 

[Hip]

The virus that gave me CFS actually triggered periodontal disease with a few months of catching it. My oral health perviously had been really excellent, with perfect pink gums. But all of a sudden, as a result of this virus, the gum line started to recede, and brown plaque appeared on these areas of newly exposed enamel.

I believe that my particular viral infection may be generating high levels of the enzyme elastase (an enzyme which can eat away at the gum tissue); in addition, the normal immune suppression found in CFS will allow oral bacteria to proliferate, which then exacerbates the gum problems.

So I think this periodontitis has dual causes.

In terms of treatment, I found that taking 25 mg of zinc acetate dissolved in a teaspoon of water and swished around the mouth once a day would effectively kill the oral bacteria. You can then swallow this zinc, as a dietary supplement. I think most forms of zinc supplement are strongly anti-bacterial.

 

[Athene]

I've made a very exciting discovery that I think may save my teeth., My receding gums are so bad that there are molar roots exposed.
I am taking a high dose of vitamin C, which helped a bit, but now I have added Vitamin K, which I recently found out is also essential for connecive tissue.
In a week I have no bleeding (I can actually floss my teeth with not a drop of blood!!!) and no pain, not even with hot or chilled drinks, I can feel that my gums are more solid and no longer "squashy".

I wanted to share this in case anyone else wants to try it. Another benefit is no more spontaneous bruising.

 

[helsbells]

Just as a heads up I was told Gum disease is also common in EDS so another chance for overlap.

 

[Hip]

....I have added Vitamin K, which I recently found out is also essential for connecive tissue.....

That is very interesting Athene - thanks.

 

[HopingSince88]

Be careful with the Vit K. This is a coagulant. It is what has the opposite effect of heparin. Anyone with hypercoagulation should probably avoid Vit K.

 

[Athene]

Thanks for mentioning that Vit K fact, HopingSince. I seem to have problems coagulating and I forget that others may not! I think if you don't know your status, it would be worth getting tested before taking it.