Peptides- Who has used these?

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Hi @xena ....You might want to narrow your question. There's a whole lotta peptides, which are simply short chains of amino acids created either endogenously by the body for specific purposes (like oxytocin, glutathione, insulin), or exogenously in the form of various supplements, like BCAAs, collagen and numerous others.

@Mary has a long and happy history with BCAAs and has a lot of information about them.

If you're relatively 'normal' and consume enough quality protein sources (meaning essential and non-essential aminos), your body has everything it needs to make functional peptides. But with M.E., 'normal' pretty much goes out the window .....

As far as introducing exogenous peptides, I think if would depend on what you're using them for and/or what body system or function you want to improve. Muscle builders use specific peptides, for instance. @Mary's found them helpful for promoting energy and shortening her PEM episodes ....

I know this is vague, but it's the best I could come up with right now ....
 

hapl808

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I assume you're talking about peptides like BPC157, TB500, etc. I've used a few. They sound amazing and the research is promising, but for ME/CFS and connective tissue problems I found it wasn't worth the trouble (or potential risks). My guess is if you're healthy and tore a tendon then BPC157 is magic. But if the reason you tore a tendon is that your collagen synthesis system is broken, then not sure peptides will help.

YMMV.
 
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I assume you're talking about peptides like BPC157, TB500, etc.
I assumed pretty much the opposite: that @xena was interested in more naturally occurring peptides, not lab-produced synths ....
They sound amazing and the research is promising, but for ME/CFS and connective tissue problems I found it wasn't worth the trouble (or potential risks)
The research on BPC157 is pretty sparse, and no one seems to have been able to establish a safe dose, or how to use it to treat specific medical conditions safely and most effectively. It's definitely interesting, but until there's a lot more research, I'd be hesitant, particularly since it only seems to be effective as an injectable ....


But then, I'm extremely cautious about fiddling with an already weirdly out-of-whack ME system, and I salute your courage in experimenting with it :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:.....

TB-500 started life as a veterinary preparation, used initially on race horses to improve track performance and speed healing, and is a chain of some 15 or 16 amino acids (most, but not all, naturally occurring peptides are chains of 3 to 8 aminos), which is why it's considered a synthetic: it just doesn't exist anywhere in nature, at least not in this reality. It's a lab-produced replica of the naturally occurring thymosin beta 4, a complex healing protein produced by the thymus gland. It's a sort of Franken-peptide.

You're a lot braver than I am. You definitely have my respect for your adventurous spirit and courage :nervous::nervous::nervous: :thumbsup::thumbsup:!!!
 
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Yes there was definitely a time when I wouldn't have touched something like this but I'm feeling more able to now.
You're another brave warrior :woot::woot: :thumbsup:, and your best bet is @hapl808, maybe @Hip ....I'm still too timid to venture that far offshore, but I send you great gusts of supportive and hopeful wishes for helpful discoveries and happy landings ....

If I can think of anyone else with a range and depth of experience or knowledge with synthetic peptides, I'll come back and tag them here for you ....
 

Hip

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There are many peptides. Some are just growth hormone stimulants, which probably will not do much for ME/CFS.

Others are immune boosters or tissue healers, which may be useful. Of these, ones which have been used in ME/CFS, sometimes with success, include:

LL-37
BPC-157
TB-500 (thymosin beta 4)

A good place to buy peptides is https://www.peptidesciences.com . This website also provides a good description of how each peptide works.

One member of this forum obtained very major improvements on LL-37 plus BPC-157. The following comes from the Recovery and Improvement Stories thread:

Peptides LL-37 + BPC-157

LL-37 is a broad-spectrum antimicrobial peptide naturally made in the body. Anecdotally, supplemental LL-37 helps fix gut issues. BPC-157 is a peptide naturally found in the stomach which may promote healing and tissue regeneration.

ME/CFS patient (beatsmyth) — with severe ME/CFS experienced a 2-level gain, moving up to mild ME/CFS, after taking a combination of two peptides LL-37 and BPC-157 for three months. He took 125 mcg of LL-37 daily for 6 weeks, then took a 2 week break, and then took LL-37 for another 6 weeks. This treatment also fixed his IBS.​
 
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xena

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You're another brave warrior :woot::woot: :thumbsup:, and your best bet is @hapl808, maybe @Hip ....I'm still too timid to venture that far offshore, but I send you great gusts of supportive and hopeful wishes for helpful discoveries and happy landings ....

If I can think of anyone else with a range and depth of experience or knowledge with synthetic peptides, I'll come back and tag them here for you ....
Wow thank you very much 😊

Great information, thank you @Hip
 

Hip

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Great information, thank you @Hip
If you want some info on how to reconstitute these dried peptides with sterile water, and then inject these peptides, someone in a FB group was asking me this a while back, and I have pasted my answers below in case they are useful for you.

It's a bit of a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it is straightforward.



Instructions for Reconstituting Peptides


— How do you reconstitute proteins and peptides?

You never actually open the little bottles containing the protein/peptide or bacteriostatic water: instead you transfer bacteriostatic water by pushing a hypodermic needle through the rubber stopper (after having removed the protective metal cap), and drawing water out into the syringe.

What you do is draw out 1 or 2 ml of bac water from the bac water bottle, inject that into the bottle containing the dried protein/peptide, give it a shake to dissolve all the protein/peptide into the water, then draw that water back out again into the syringe, and then inject it into the bottle of bacteriostatic water.

So now all you protein/peptide is dissolved in the bacteriostatic water bottle. If you had say 5000 mcg of protein/peptide to begin with, and if your bac water bottle is 30 ml in size, you will now have 5000 ÷ 30 = 167 mcg of protein/peptide per ml in the bac water bottle.

If you search YouTube for "reconstituting peptides", you will see some videos showing how it is done. For example:


— What needles do you use (size, length) for injections?

I use very fine 30 gauge hypodermic needles which are only 0.3 mm thick (shown in the attached image). If you are using Luer Slip syringes, make sure you get the corresponding Luer Slip needles to go with them. As opposed to Luer Lock, which is an alternative system of connecting needle to syringe.

You can buy 30 gauge sterile needles here in the UK: https://www.medisave.co.uk/search/?q=30+gauge+needle

In the US search here for needles: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=shop&q=30+gauge+needle

I find when you push the needle through the rubber stopper of the bac water + protein/peptide bottle, in order to draw out your dose for injection, surprisingly the rubber blunts the sharp edge of the needle at bit, which then makes it harder to push the needle cleanly into your skin.

So I use two needles, one to draw out the dose from the bac water bottle into the syringe, and then I change the needle on the syringe for a fresh one before injecting.


— Where do you inject?

A good place to inject is into subcutaneous fat on the belly, in the areas 2 inches left or right of the belly button.


— Where do you buy your bacterial sterile water/sterile vials?

The high-quality major brand is Hospira bacteriostatic water, so you can Google for websites which sell this. It the UK it can be quite expensive, eg, $15 for one 30 ml bottle.

In the UK I buy mine here: https://www.bacteriostatic-water-uk.com

In the US you can buy here: https://www.bacteriostaticwater.com/products/bacteriostatic-water-30ml
You can get plain bacteriostatic water or sodium chloride bacteriostatic water. However, sodium chloride is not recommended due to its tendency to cause precipitates with acetate salts.


— How do you store the bacteriostatic water containing the protein or peptide?

One you have reconstituted the dry protein or peptide with bacteriostatic water, it should be kept in the fridge (but try not to let the water freeze).

Hospira say that after reconstituting, their bacteriostatic water is safe for 28 days, before bacteria slowly builds up in the bac water bottle. Bacteriostatic water has an antibacterial preservative that slows bacterial growth, but eventually the bacteria will build up. However, I've sometimes kept reconstituted proteins/peptides for about 2 months in the fridge, and have injected them without apparent issue.

If you are going to try to extent the lifespan of these bacteriostatic water bottles in the fridge, I would suggest placing them in the coldest part of the fridge, where the temperature is below 5°C (below 5°C bacteria grow much more slowly). Next to the cooling element at the back of the fridge is typically around 5°C.

But try to make sure the liquid does not freeze, as this might be harmful to the protein or peptide (you can freeze dry lyophilised proteins/peptides, but once reconstituted by dissolving into water, freezing/thawing may stress and damage the protein/peptide).

I bought a digital fridge thermometer with max and min temperature recording, in order to ensure that the temperature in the area I stored my bacteriostatic water bottles was below 5°C, but remained above 0°C.

Another way to help reduce the bacterial levels in the bottle is to disinfect the rubber stopper with alcohol just before you push the hypodermic needle through the top. That helps prevent bacteria entering the bottle via the needle. I usually disinfect my rubber tops in this way before pushing in the needle.
 

xena

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You're another brave warrior :woot::woot: :thumbsup:, and your best bet is @hapl808, maybe @Hip ....I'm still too timid to venture that far offshore, but I send you great gusts of supportive and hopeful wishes for helpful discoveries and happy landings ....

If I can think of anyone else with a range and depth of experience or knowledge with synthetic peptides, I'll come back and tag them here for you ....
<3 <3 <3 :)
 

heapsreal

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There seems to be a big variety of experiences with these peptides and one big reason is, are they real or fake?? Even if prescribed by a Dr, many have had a variety of responses and many sources aren't FDA approved etc.
If one was taking a growth hormone releasing peptide, one could compare igf levels prior compared to after through a blood test.
 

Hip

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There seems to be a big variety of experiences with these peptides and one big reason is, are they real or fake??
I know someone who has actually sent some of these peptides away for independent lab testing, and from the results, it appears that some peptide companies are watering down their peptides by 50%.

So you may find a company which sells their peptides for 50% less than other companies; but if they dilute down their products by 50%, you are back to square one.

Peptide Sciences I believe sells 100% pure peptides, but are more expensive.

@mitoMAN may have some comments on this.
 

heapsreal

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I know someone who has actually sent some of these peptides away for independent lab testing, and from the results, it appears that some peptide companies are watering down their peptides by 50%.

So you may find a company which sells their peptides for 50% less than other companies; but if they dilute down their products by 50%, you are back to square one.

Peptide Sciences I believe sells 100% pure peptides, but are more expensive.

@mitoMAN may have some comments on this.
Also some peptides are quite fragile to movement when shipping or to heat. I've heard stories of people ordering growth hormone that was 100% legitimate but when shipped it can lose its potency. But I'd say different peptides are more prone to issues than others.
 

Shanti1

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Hi Xena,

I have tried a few peptides (BPC-157, ARA290, cerebrolycin, TB-500, Growth Hormone stimulants) with no improvement with the exception of GDF-11. GDF-11 is quite controversial, so you you would want to give this thread a good read: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ion-after-taking-elixir-of-youth-gdf11.79778/ before trying. Even though the other peptides I tried didn't help me, I've seen reports of them helping others. I have more peptides I'd like to try in the future. Most things I try don't help me, but every now and then I hit upon something that does,
 

mitoMAN

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Also some peptides are quite fragile to movement when shipping or to heat. I've heard stories of people ordering growth hormone that was 100% legitimate but when shipped it can lose its potency. But I'd say different peptides are more prone to issues than others.
sadly this was a myth created by a fragile peptide called recombinant HGH which is a 191amino acid chain peptide trifolded. But even rHGH is not fragile when shaken, our lab did a hammer shaking test with a machine around a few thousands shakes total. No degradation. However it is sensible to heat and UV.
HCG with above 200aa is even more fragile and degrades quickly once in solution even at 2-8 Celsius.
All other peptides below 100 amino acids are not fragile at all.
 

heapsreal

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sadly this was a myth created by a fragile peptide called recombinant HGH which is a 191amino acid chain peptide trifolded. But even rHGH is not fragile when shaken, our lab did a hammer shaking test with a machine around a few thousands shakes total. No degradation. However it is sensible to heat and UV.
HCG with above 200aa is even more fragile and degrades quickly once in solution even at 2-8 Celsius.
All other peptides below 100 amino acids are not fragile at all.
The big problem the last few years is postage. Peptides can be stuck in a shipping container for weeks, exposed to heat. One big reason some have problems.

Do they have test kits for peptides? Similar to hormone test kits?
 
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alpha1 made me feel a lot worse, from memory some people here have had terrible reactions to alpha1 and/or tb500 putting them into crashes they cannot recover from. So be careful.

BPC-157 just made me feel sick, not sure why.

kpv has been very useful but hard to discern the exact benefits for me, but I worry that it may do more harm than good and this is my primary concern. KPV is a potent antimicrobial, helps MCAS symptoms, very strong anti inflamatory upstream of a-msh.