Pentoxifylline: shows amazing results but it's a potent immunesupresive agent: your opinion?

[leokitten]

And to add to previous post, pentoxifylline might have caused improvements in my skin and muscles in my extremitites. I had some significant skin changes that were very sudden after getting ME and have been consistently bad and not changing for 8+ years. Also, when my ME symptoms are bad my muscles would go suddenly very flabby especially in my lower legs. Like they have no blood going to them. Now this is much reduced and skin and muscle tone are better.

I cannot guarantee improvements are due to pentoxifylline, as I've also been taking moclobemide overlapping much of this time and was previously also on low-dose Abilify for many months last year. But earlier on during treatment my skin changes and muscle tone improved quite a bit and are still same improved even after stopping Abilify in October.

I can say if pentoxifylline works and causes these improvements it doesn't work very fast, so you have to be patient and take it for like 3 months or more before evaluating. I think one reason behind this is many of us have had ME for a long time, so if it does improve things and reverse damage by improving circulation it's not going to happen overnight.

 

[Pearshaped]

hi @serg1942 how are you and how is your friend doing ?
is she still on pentoxyfilline ?
Have you tried it ?

 

[Pearshaped]

@Hip, @leokitten,

Thank you for letting me know about the studies on pentoxifylline as an anticancerous agent. I have done a further reading of the available literature on the subject, and indeed, there are many papers showing an antineoplasic effects of pentoxyfilline in different cancers in mice.

While this is encouraging, I must add that the opposite seems to be also true: pentoxifilline can promote cancer growth in mice. For example, pentoxifylline promotes colon adenocarcinoma-derived metastatic tumor growth in lungs and also in liver of mice:

https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/or.11.5.1121/abstract

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14534700

Similarly, it strongly promoted rhabdomyosarcoma-derived tumor growth in mice:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7974171/

A possible explanation, beyond the suppression of cytotoxicity, can be that this drug increases blood flow in cancerous cells. Thus, a human study inserted a catheter in cancerous lymph nodes of 11 oncologic patients with different types of cancer (adenocarcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, lymphoma, melanoma, and transitional cell carcinoma), and found that pentoxifilline actually increased the blood flux into the tumors, accounting for one of the reasons why it helps chemotherapy to work. However, enhancing blood circulation through the tumors is a way of "feeding" them:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167814001004935

So, how is it possible to show one thing and the oposite at the same time? Well, it seems that pentoxyfilline has anticancerous properties, including antineolasic, antifibrotic, and antiinflammatory properties. It also works at a molecular level inducing cell apoptosis, and inhibiting adhesion molecules on cancerous cells.

But, as I reviewed above, it seems to lower NK (and probably CD8+) citotoxicity as well as other key aspects of a necessary cellular response against cancer. So, I guess that depending on the type of cancer, it's location, and host's immunity status, it will go one way or another (in this regard, the increased blood flow of pentoxifylline to tumors was shown to be dependent on the location of the tumor, in mice:
https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/pmc1968634).

However I'd like to make an important point: I am concerned about people with ME/CFS taking this drug. And, ME/CFS patients are already immune-suppressed, with a reduced Th1 and cellular innate (NK dependant) response. Obviously this could tip the balance towards unwanted side effects.

Also, many ME/CFS patients have tested positive for infections, including Lyme disease (I have, by CDC criteria, and meet ME/CFS diagnostic criteria as well).

So, do we know what might happen if we take pentoxifylline with a chronic infection? Well, here's a study showing that pentoxifilline worsens lung damage in mice with chronic tuberculosis:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1783172/

In summary, I think I have reached a dead end regarding whether the use of pentoxifylline may be dangerous or not. We just do not have enough data, and prospective longitudinal trials in humans are needed.

I think I will err on the safe side though, and won't take this drug for now.

I'm sorry for the "assay"! I really appreciate your inputs and the debate!

Best,
Sergio

Sorry to have tagged you, I missed some post, in particular this one where you say you wont try it,
All the best.

 

[Shanti1]

I have taken pentoxifylline 6-7 times now over the last few months. I know this seems like an odd way to take it, but I seem to get an immediate positive response to it.

I'm extremely sensitive to medications. I am not sure I have ever taken a med where I didn't notice anything. I either feel better or worse. I tried pentoxifylline as part of my experimentation with some of Dr. Jay Goldstein's medications and pentoxifylline is one of a handful that I have a positive response to.

I've learned from past experience that I quickly tend to develop tolerance or a reaction to things that initially help if I take them daily. This is why I've opted to only take pentoxifylline only intermittently.

Pentoxifylline has a lot of mechanisms of action, with many needing time to take effect. Since I feel an effect within 15 min, I'm thinking might be responding to its Adenosine 2 receptor antagonism or phosphodiesterase inhibition, which sounds like caffeine, which I already use as either green tea or coffee..... so I'm not sure.

@mitoMAN @Pearshaped

 

[serg1942]

Sorry to have tagged you, I missed some post, in particular this one where you say you wont try it,
All the best.

Hi pearshaped,

It's ok. Yes, I decided not to take it because of the immune-suppressive effects.

For my friend it stopped working after about 6 months or so, so she stopped taking it....

Take care!

 

[Pearshaped]

Hi pearshaped,

It's ok. Yes, I decided not to take it because of the immune-suppressive effects.

For my friend it stopped working after about 6 months or so, so she stopped taking it....

Take care!

oh so sad it stopped working for her.
Thank you so much for your reply.

 

[Hip]

Just came across this story of a long COVID patient who substantially improved from a two month course of pentoxifylline.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Recently I asked ChatGPT what drugs could be used to improve microcirculation and hypoperfusion and its first suggestion was pentoxifylline.

 

[ChookityPop]

Just came across this story of a long COVID patient who substantially improved from a two month course of pentoxifylline.

Any info on the dose?

 

[Hip]

Any info on the dose?

400mg 3x daily for 8 weeks it says in the thread.