PEMF device experiences

[PatJ]

Eventually I tried doing just 5 seconds and it still wasted me.

That's a powerful reaction. The upside is that since you obviously respond to it, then if your health improves enough maybe the Vielight will be useful in the future. There are some messages here on the forum from a couple of people who were using the Vielight. If you use Phoenix Rising's Google site search you'll get more accurate results than the forum software's built in search.

 

[BenFromNZ]

@PatJ
Thanks, yeah I read a bit of the thread on here when I was first looking into the Vielight stuff. Looks like some people get some help - but I seem to have a way stronger reaction than other people. Maybe I will post my experience there.

 

[Jamo77]

@Deltrus

I am looking into the ICES device. Do you think it's a worthwhile investment based on your experience? Did you find a way to get long term relief from your symptoms by using the ICES?

 

[PatJ]

Do you think it's a worthwhile investment based on your experience?

You tagged Deltrus but I thought you might want another perspective. The ICES device increases my fatigue and, if I use it on my head, lowers my already-too-low blood pressure, My fatigue increases no matter where I use it on my body.

Many people have found benefit from the ICES and other PEMF devices, but I'm not one of them (at the moment). I've kept it because it might be useful in the future, or for family members to use.

 

[PatJ]

Update: Something has changed with my health so that now I'm able to use the PEMF device on my body and only experience a mild increase in brainfog and mild lower energy for a couple of hours. The fatigue effect was stronger on the first day I resumed using the PEMF device but has lessened now that I've been using it consistently for a few days.

 

[kelly8]

I just ordered one of these and am interested in using it on my head. Seems like a scary jump though. Any thoughts on brain placement areas that might benefit? I'd like to restimulate my vagus nerve. I also had about 7 or 8 concussions in my life so I'm thinking it might help with reducing inflammation from that?

 

[Learner1]

My doctor's instruction was to put the coil.on my forehead and raised the intensity until.i could feel it in my teeth.

 

[kelly8]

My doctor's instruction was to put the coil.on my forehead and raised the intensity until.i could feel it in my teeth.

The center of your forehead? I had read somewhere that someone else was using it just above and to the front of the ears to try and target the hypothalamus. Did it help you?

 

[Learner1]

It was a loop that went around my forehead, touching the top of my head and the front of my head.

I can't point to any specific benefits though I've read about the benefits of PEMF. Seemed like another way to spend money.

 

[xrayspex]

@PatJ
Thanks, yeah I read a bit of the thread on here when I was first looking into the Vielight stuff. Looks like some people get some help - but I seem to have a way stronger reaction than other people. Maybe I will post my experience there.

Ben what was your reaction--yay or nay?

 

[xrayspex]

Bulletproof podcast and website are one of my go to's for non-medication and cutting edge therapies-this is what he has about PEMF, curious if others think it seems accurate, I am going to try it a local chiro clinic soon

https://blog.bulletproof.com/pemf-therapy/

 

[xrayspex]

You can buy a pemf addition to the spooky2 set up, that is one generator and free software to run it much much cheaper. I use it regularly.

Brenda how is pemf similar or different to rife?

 

[brenda]

Brenda how is pemf similar or different to rife?

The difference is between a pulsed magnetic field verses steady frequencies depending on what you want to treat.

 

[xrayspex]

well after reading the thread carefully now I don't know if I want to try this. I hate interventions that make you feel worse before they make you feel better--always a red flag for me--and stuff that "detoxes" you can backfire....

I used frequency specific microcurrent for a year and halfish and it helped a lot of things but probably because of my cervical stenosis I have become increasingly intolerant to it as it can help improve ligament strength but weaken joint strength because it can work away at scarring etc which in some people is good but if you have instability in neck can make that worse....so am trying to find alternative modalities like that tho for fatigue and pain and brain etc because most meds and supplements are not well tolerated by me and surgery sounds too aggressive for me at this juncture still

 

[xrayspex]

The difference is between a pulsed magnetic field verses steady frequencies depending on what you want to treat.

thanks---do you have a preference? do you think one is cleaner or more effective than the other? if you have time to read the other post I made on this thread today about having stenosis and not tolerating microcurrent ---I am looking for other modalities that may not have as much of a propensity to aggravate degenerated neck and I also was not happy to see people post on here they felt pemf caused detox or bad feelings from even short sessions.....I got down to 3 seconds of micocurrent and had to stop that this summer because it caused pain flare a day later--before that would usually run it 7-12 minutes (normies sometimes do hours a day)

I know microcurrent and pemf are different which is why i wanted to try pemf

 

[xrayspex]

Update: Something has changed with my health so that now I'm able to use the PEMF device on my body and only experience a mild increase in brainfog and mild lower energy for a couple of hours. The fatigue effect was stronger on the first day I resumed using the PEMF device but has lessened now that I've been using it consistently for a few days.

Pat are you still liking pemf? how long did you have to play around with it before you started liking it?

 

[brenda]

thanks---do you have a preference? do you think one is cleaner or more effective than the other? if you have time to read the other post I made on this thread today about having stenosis and not tolerating microcurrent ---I am looking for other modalities that may not have as much of a propensity to aggravate degenerated neck and I also was not happy to see people post on here they felt pemf caused detox or bad feelings from even short sessions.....I got down to 3 seconds of micocurrent and had to stop that this summer because it caused pain flare a day later--before that would usually run it 7-12 minutes (normies sometimes do hours a day)

I know microcurrent and pemf are different which is why i wanted to try pemf

I have not been using rife since 10 days of detox made little difference and l am becoming wary of the microbiome being negatively affected. I do not know enough about pemf to say much.

 

[PatJ]

Pat are you still liking pemf? how long did you have to play around with it before you started liking it?

I'm still using it now that it doesn't exhaust me. I don't know if it's actually helping though, since I'm using it for kidney and liver problems that will take quite awhile to heal, along with other treatments like NIR light, FAR heat, nutrition, and supplements.

Maybe I just didn't give it enough time when I first tried it. When I started using it again recently I went through what felt like an adjustment period. There was extra fatigue initially but after regular use for a few days I rarely feel tired now unless I use a high power setting. It takes some experimenting with the power setting, duration, and location.

Here is some information I've gathered about PEMF, mostly related to inflammation:

[Proper nutrition helps] "Since most of the effects of magnetic fields happen because of how they act on ions, especially calcium, sodium, potassium, and magnesium, these ions and electrolytes need to be at the right levels in the body. It is difficult to heal depleted tissues without sound nutrition. Supplements may also be quite helpful for magnetic therapy to be most effective. Dr. Pawluk usually recommends magnesium supplementation and adequate amounts of daily water. Additionally, some individuals (particularly women) need extra melatonin to optimize health while using PEMFs." (Pawluk)

"Inflammation is a cascade of physiologic processes instigated by the body to repair cellular damage in tissues with good blood supply and to restore the tissue to its normal function." (Pawluk)

"It is important that normal homeostatically stable cells are not harmed by PEMF’s, allowing other treatments to be more effective without proportional increases in side effects. In chronic inflammatory diseases, cells are characteristically maintained in meta-stable states, as a consequence of cytokine secretions and other stressors associated with the disease. In these cases, PEMF’s can work as a stand-alone anti-inflammatory therapy. Even weak, low-frequency PEMF’s induce apoptosis in activated T cells, thereby reducing chronic inflammation without negatively affecting acute inflammation." (Pawluk)

But, too much inflammation is not good because it can lead to scarring.

PEMF works locally but can help globally. "The more local tissues are balanced and healthy, the more systemic balance will occur. Significant magnitudes of local tissue acidity or imbalance will obviously affect the whole body." (Pawluk)

PEMF reduces inflammation:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669296/

From Selfhacked: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/ice...-fatigue-and-inflammation-cure-upgraded-pemf/
[Inflammation] "ICES gets rid of inflammation and oxidative stress locally where ever you put it, including in the hypothalamus/brain, which prevents fatigue." [Causes fatigue for some people, maybe due to healing or lowering of BP]

[Rejuvenate] "It will rejuvenate any tissue you put it on – especially bones, but also joints, skin, etc…"

[Add LLLT] "LLLT has some negatives to it like fatigue and cognitive laziness – but the positive outweigh the negatives, so I strongly recommend LLLT as well."

[Local] "This works better than the supplements because it’s able to work locally and it’s probably more powerful on a systemic level, too. The supplements have many other effects in the body and if you take too many you’ll get side effects. So it’s much better to deal with a problem locally if the source of the issue is local."

[Anywhere] "I put ICES on my brain, gut, thyroid, thymus, heart, kidneys, testes, liver, spleen and anywhere that I have pain." Also uses it to increase digestion and has found great benefits.

[Vasodilation] "Thirty minutes of PEMF treatment on rat brains, induced brain blood vessel dilation, leading to an increase in blood flow and tissue oxygenation that persisted for at least 3 hours. The effects of PEMF were mediated by Nitric Oxide."

From Selfhacked QA: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/ice...es_Inflammation_8211_the_Cell_Danger_Response
[Cell danger response] "ICES does something different to the inflammatory systems than aspirin or NSAIDs do. ... And what it seems to do, what PEMF broadly seems to do, is it seems to break this feedback loop, this pathologic inflammation where cells and tissues get stuck in give it a reset. When you get a metabolic reset, the inflammation goes down."
* "The hypothesis I am developing is that ICES can break the positive feedback loops in the autoimmune system to allow chronic pathologic inflammation to “reset” to normal."
* "I would speculate that you would find it helpful in your case because ICES does not seem to exacerbate immune responses, rather it seems to prevent autoimmune positive feedback loops from locking some of these responses into “always ON mode”."
* More discussion at the link.

[Enhances other therapies] "Every clinician I talked to says that PEMF, my system and others, too, seems to make their treatments two to three times more effective. So whether it’s nutritional, stem cell, low level laser light therapy, acupuncture, IR, all these things seem to work better. And we’ve actually done some studies where we even post the circuit coil. The recovery is two to three times faster."

[Energy output] PEMF seems to work based on a threshold. Just enough energy causes a response. More energy isn't better so the ICES device is intentionally limited in how much energy it puts out. Some people's threshold is higher so the device has multiple power settings.
* "I’ve cut so much of the energy out, and it’s so much less extra excess energy than most types of PEMF that I don’t think it’s possible to [overdose]."
* "Some people use it relatively at a high setting, 24/7, with no problems. If you do overdose on any form of PEMF, seems to be the thing to do is stop."
* "And I think, based on my readings of the scientific literatures, it’s very hard to overdose on PEMF [even with powerful systems]."

[No downside to reducing inflammation] "I actually have a masters degree in Kinesiology and Sports Science, and this is something I’ve actually studied. And when I kind of entered into this area, it was one of the things I was wondering about. And, there’s a lot of belief that inflammation is necessary for wound healing, too. And yet we’ve done some studies where right after, immediately in the recovery right after surgery, we applied PEMF and wounds were healing two or three times faster. Right? And there didn’t seem to be any kind of delay or reduction or attenuation of the healing process.

Even though surgeons will tell you (especially orthopaedic surgeons), you’ve got to have inflammation because it’s there. They’re right. It’s always there after these injuries. And it does seem to be part of the healing cascade, but it doesn’t seem to have to be there for very long."

[Tinnitus increase] "...the only negative feedback we’ve ever gotten from any of our devices is that it makes tinnitus, ringing in the ears, noticeably worse. And the answer was stop using that or turn it down, problem went away."

[Head use] "And so if you’re going to use it on your head, I recommend you start with really low intensity, and also, only do it while you’re awake and alert. And, you can see if you’re having kind of an adverse reaction." PEMF and Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation are basically the same and can be used for brain injury, depression, fatigue, and other problems.

[Duration] "Some people wear it at a very low energy 24/7. Sometimes they put it on their lower back and they just get this really great sort of stress relief. Some people wear it on their head."
* "Probably, they wear it, you know, very frequently. Some people go jogging with it for an hour. Others will wear it discreetly all day. It’s something that’s experimental."
* "So, most people wear it almost every day for at least a half an hour. For chronic, really deep-seated pain I recommend you wear it for four to eight hours if you can every day. Some people like it so much they just put the potency really low and they wear it day and night, 24/7, 365. I never had anyone report an adverse reaction. And, that’s generally true of PEMF."

[Subtlety] Some people think it doesn't work, then they stop using it and realize that it was helping because of how they feel when they stop using it for a few days.

[Light + PEMF] "what clinicians tell me is that when you combine those two for open wounds, you get the very best possible outcome." [Light meaning Low-level light therapy such as NIR light]

[Cell growth] "...the NASA study that tested the magnetic pulse effects on the neuronal cells that found there’s an increased expression of genes that are responsible for growth and regeneration."

[Uses] Many uses are mentioned based on scientific research and direct user experience. Irritable bladder was one condition that may be helped.

[ICES] "Let me tell you one of the secrets of the design of my system, I-C-E-S or ICES system. I actually designed it so that it would emulate a neuromotor pattern that you see during development of a fetus. So some slow twitch, some fast twitch. What I was actually trying to do was emulate the neuromotor responses that are absolutely essential to promote tissue development and maturation. That actually explains what the first several versions of ICES that have the slower and then faster patterns, they’re literally they’re emulating slow twitch and fast twitch muscle."

 

[xrayspex]

I'm still using it now that it doesn't exhaust me. I don't know if it's actually helping though, since I'm using it for kidney and liver problems that will take quite awhile to heal, along with other treatments like NIR light, FAR heat, nutrition, and supplements.

Maybe I just didn't give it enough time when I first tried it. When I started using it again recently I went through what felt like an adjustment period. There was extra fatigue initially but after regular use for a few days I rarely feel tired now unless I use a high power setting. It takes some experimenting with the power setting, duration, and location.

Here is some information I've gathered about PEMF:

thanks Pat! interesting---I do get tinnitus reaction from various things and did sometimes from microcurrent. Hmm seems like I would just have to try this to find out and I would request they put it on a really really low setting because I do not find it helpful to get big "healing crises"

 

[xrayspex]

So I tried PEMF today at a chiropractor office and i asked she just do 5 mins and she talked me into doing it on my neck but I was thinking about how some people posted it worked better to not put it near their head and I started feeling spacey in my head so I had her switch it to just my back. I didnt really notice anything then (around lunch time) but tonight I feel energized getting stuff done around the house...I hope I sleep...not sure its from PEMF but glad I had a decent day whatever 'tis...will give it a try again next week

oh its an older type, not digital, Pulsed Harmonix---my understanding is it is just slower than newer versions which is good by me