Pacing: Very interesting HealthRising article re HR and HRV monitoring and pacing - I may finally spring for an HR/HRV monitor!

[livinglighter]

I hope you don't mind me asking here, but I am slightly confused. Admittingly, I have only read the link in this post about pacing using HRM and a little bit about HRV. I need to do much more reading to understand how to incorporate both for pacing fully.

Meanwhile, I'd like to ask if you only need to record your HRV in the morning using something like corsense to understand how to pace or if you also need to use it several times a day to understand triggers of PEM?

I'm currently under the impression that I need to measure my heart rate throughout the day to see what activities are causing me to overexert myself or when to avoid doing certain activities. I think this is confusing me about what device will be better for me to understand how to avoid PEM.

Any further help is much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Jyoti]

I did order the Corsense yesterday and have no regrets!

I am looking forward to hearing how it goes, @Mary!

 

[perrier]

I hope you don't mind me asking here, but I am slightly confused. Admittingly, I have only read the link in this post about pacing using HRM and a little bit about HRV. I need to do much more reading to understand how to incorporate both for pacing fully.

Meanwhile, I'd like to ask if you only need to record your HRV in the morning using something like corsense to understand how to pace or if you also need to use it several times a day to understand triggers of PEM?

I'm currently under the impression that I need to measure my heart rate throughout the day to see what activities are causing me to overexert myself or when to avoid doing certain activities. I think this is confusing me about what device will be better for me to understand how to avoid PEM.

Any further help is much appreciated.

Thanks

I am like you Lvinglighter. I need help knowing what to purchase for a severely ill member of our family. It can't be complicated, and preferably on the wrist. We like to turn off wifi for large chunks of the day, due to sensitivities so forget the iPhone. What would be the simplest, best apparatus or 2, whatever the cost? And where would one go to learn how to do this programme? Forgive my idiotic questions, this is all new to me. thanks. PM are also welcome.

 

[hapl808]

I'm just starting, but that's why I chose the Vivosmart 4 (although the pulse ox doesn't seem to be working during sleep so far). But I keep the bluetooth off and only turn it on maybe once per day to allow it to sync to my iPhone. That way I'm not sleeping with a bluetooth device turned on, although supposedly during such times it's mostly in receiving mode and not transmitting, but I like to keep it off anyways.

 

[Mary]

Doesn't S8 work on the welltory app? it has a strobe flash and video.

@gbells - I didn't know a smart phone could be used as an HRV monitor. I had thought it was just for using an app. So in your other post you say you want to pay for the welltory data analysis service - how much is that?

I still think the Corsense would be more accurate, from what I read, and their app is free. Though I could download the free welltory app and try it with my phone and see if my phone will work as an HRM - I'll think about it! If I get the energy to try both, I could compare it to the Corsense for accuracy and ease of use. I really like the design of the Corsense - like a pulse oximeter. And I could let someone else use it too with ease.

 

[gbells]

@gbells - I didn't know a smart phone could be used as an HRV monitor. I had thought it was just for using an app. So in your other post you say you want to pay for the welltory data analysis service - how much is that?

Yes that's the point. You don't need to buy sensors. You can use it for free but for their coaching you have to pay for a plan. I think it's around $5 per month and there is a 10% discount for 1 year prepay. I do it seated so there is no need for a sensor.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I am looking forward to hearing how it goes, @Mary!

I'm curious about how challenging it is to operate these devices if one is a luddite with Cognitive ME.

Is it hard to operate and figure it out?

 

[gbells]

I'm curious about how challenging it is to operate these devices if one is a luddite with Cognitive ME.

Is it hard to operate and figure it out?

For a phone you just sit relaxed and keep your finger over the video camera and strobe for 1 min. That's it.

 

[Mary]

I'm curious about how challenging it is to operate these devices if one is a luddite with Cognitive ME.

Is it hard to operate and figure it out?

That's what I'm trying to figure out! There are different types of HRV monitors. From what I've been reading, the ones with chest straps in general tend to be the most accurate. However, they can be uncomfortable and maybe a bit tricky to get off and on.

The one I've ordered however, the CorSense, looks as easy to use as a pulse oximeter - you just stick it on the end of your finger for a few minutes in the morning. And from what I read, it is supposed to be the most accurate. So this sold me - the easiest to use and the most accurate.

However you have to download an app to interpret the results. I don't know how complicated it will be to work with the app, but I should know pretty soon - I think mine will be arriving this week.

Here's a very handy video EliteHRV (who made the CorSense) sent me with instructions so it may give you an idea of how to use it: CorSense Getting Started Instructions - English - Elite HRV

 

[Mary]

For a phone you just sit relaxed and keep your finger over the video camera and strobe for 1 min. That's it.

Where is the strobe function on your phone? I googled Samsung Galaxy s8 and S9 strobe and came up with hits having to do with turning flash notification off and on, but nothing about strobe.

 

[Abrin]

@Abrin
Thanks for sharing your detailed account about what you’ve found worked best for HRV monitoring.

Anytime!

I know that this illness is not a 'one-size-fits all' thing but hopefully the information will end up useful to some.

 

[Abrin]

I hope you don't mind me asking here, but I am slightly confused. Admittingly, I have only read the link in this post about pacing using HRM and a little bit about HRV. I need to do much more reading to understand how to incorporate both for pacing fully.

Meanwhile, I'd like to ask if you only need to record your HRV in the morning using something like corsense to understand how to pace or if you also need to use it several times a day to understand triggers of PEM?

I'm currently under the impression that I need to measure my heart rate throughout the day to see what activities are causing me to overexert myself or when to avoid doing certain activities. I think this is confusing me about what device will be better for me to understand how to avoid PEM.

Any further help is much appreciated.

Thanks

Tracking heart rate and tracking heart rate variability are two completely different things and right now there is no one consumer device out there is able to do everything well at the same time as also being affordable.

I currently use two devices:

* Garmin Vivosmart 4 to keep track of all-day heart rate because I find it does that task well
* Corsense for helping track heart rate variability because it does that task well

There are definitely other devices that you could use to track either heart rate or heart rate variability but each have varying degrees of accuracy and comfort. All devices are not created equal. I have no doubt that there are probably devices out there that would be better at tracking all-day heart rate but they are just not in my budget right now. The Corsense is the top of its class for accuracy so you won't be able to get any better outside of a hospital but it may not be an affordable option for everyone.

In summary, it is best to use both kinds of devices. One that can track all-day heart rate and one that can track heart rate variability if you can but sadly I know this is not an affordable option for everyone. So, use the devices that are easy for you to acquire but realize that the data from the less accurate devices need to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Abrin]

For those people looking for more information this very long video should be helpful.

 

[livinglighter]

@Abrin
Thanks for bringing me up to speed. “Physios for ME!” I didn’t know it existed.

 

[BrightCandle]

After 3 days of multiple HRV results daily ot seems to map pretty well too how I feel about my energy. My issue with heart rate was while it showed physical exertion it missed the mental aspect, HRV seems to accomodate the impact of both. So the question for me now comes how the heck do you monitor this all day long and get an alarm to go and lie down?

 

[godlovesatrier]

Cort has just tweeted about the Oura ring. Very expensive but it seems really accurate and apparently tells you when to rest.

https://ouraring.com/product/heritage-silver/step1

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371480238501326853

 

[keepswimming]

Do you think it accurate corresponds to that? I mean when you actually notice yourself crashing, the device picks up on it too?

Hi @Judee . Yes, for me, definitely. Crash days my stress levels are noticeably lower (higher HRV) and I dip into "blue" rest a lot more than a on non crash day. I can see which days I've crashed just by looking at my stress record - I also track my fatigue levels separately and it corresponds.

To start with it puzzled me that my stress is lower (higher HRV) on a crash day, because higher HRV is meant to be a sign of wellness and being in a good place for activity. But I did some research and read an article (not aimed at CFS but relevant) which explained if your body has been pushed too far your body can basically force itself into recovery, so unusually high HRV/low stress can mean the opposite - your body is shouting out that it needs to rest. If I find the article I will add the link to this post.

... I found the article, its here - under "Mistake 2"

 

[Jyoti]

Having read this entire thread--several times-- as well as Cort's article on the Oura ring, I keep circling a sense that there is much of value for me here, and yet not quite grasping how to make it work. Like @gbells, I have only the free Welltory option for now--because I want to see where and how there is some correlation to my felt experience before I dive in and spend a lot on a new device.

I know different apps use different ways of describing the data they record. Welltory tells me repeatedly that I have super high HRV scores, that I am 'running like a well-oiled machine' and that "now is a great time to hit the gym for an intense workout.' Given that I have been nearly paralyzed at the times of these readings, you will understand why I am confused. @keepswimming points to a piece (and there are many which say this) that acknowledge that at some times, when the body is totally overwhelmed you may get a high HRV. All the time though?

And then I had my first jab on three days ago and felt fine (my baseline awful normal) throughout the first 24 hours--high HRV scores. Then things got a tiny bit worse. And interestingly, my HRV scores plummeted. I got messages telling me 'you might be getting sick' and 'resist the urge to do anything other than rest.' It put me in mind of Cort's experience with the Oura ring and an approaching virus. I am sure my body is responding to the vaccination provocation and that, at least, seems to be showing up in the Welltory HRV scores.

 

[Mary]

@Jyoti - you might try a different app and see what results you get. This one is supposed to be good, and there's a free version which I think works with almost any smart phone: Elite HRV: The Best Heart Rate Variability Monitor & App You don't have to use their HRV device.

What HRV device are you using with the Welltory app?

 

[Jyoti]

@Mary--I am just using my phone. I haven't decided to take the plunge on the device yet--wanted to get some indication of how it might help, knowing that the phone readings--which Welltory supports-- are not highly accurate, I also thought they might be grossly so.

Have you gotten your Corsense?