Opinions on de Meirlier

[justy]

If one has had a negative Elisa via uk NHS but it throws up a lot of false negatives, is a western blot at a NHS cost of £300 via my gp worth following since I understand this is not reliable either.

I had two separate tick bites about 10 years ago, no rash or other symptoms and developed ME around then.

Any opinions- gratefully received?

Anyone with a known tick bie and M.E should probably jiust get treatment with an ILADS Dr IMHO

 

[neweimear]

Anyone with a known tick bie and M.E should probably jiust get treatment with an ILADS Dr IMHO

I dont have a known tickbite

 

[neweimear]

I had positive Western serum immunoblot results at two Australian labs.

Mel, I never recall a tick bite and I have no pain so that is why I query my weak positive result. Does lyme cause pain in most people? Thank you.

 

[Mel9]

Mel, I never recall a tick bite and I have no pain so that is why I query my weak positive result. Does lyme cause pain in most people? Thank you.

It certainly did in my case

 

[Orla]

Hi Eimear, I am inclined to agree with you with regard to not trusting the Lyme test. Have you seen this thread? http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...tary-undercover-in-german-lyme-clinics.55493/

 

[Banana94]

Hi
I am just back from seeing de Meirlier. I was shocked at my results, he said I had extremely leaky gut and that I was intolerant to almost every food. I have no major digestive issues but since getting ME, my bowel habits are a bit erratic, fluctuating between constipation and loose bowel movements. He also said I had some neurotoxins going into my brain, that really scared me as I am an emotional wreck since becoming ill. I also stress or become angry very quickly.
He said to continue eating as normal as I can't give up everything. He will post my results and prescription in 3 weeks. I dont want to go on an antiobiotic....does he prescribe antibiotics to everyone?
If anyone received similar results, did his protocol help? I didnt realise my digestive system was such a mess.
I am also sceptical, I am not sure what to make of him as a doctor. I appreciate any feedback

There are some reasons treating the gut with ABX like if you have SIBO and other things. He treated me 2 months with Azithromycin and now 3 month Xifaxan( poorly Absorbed). I feel no changes, only the No carb diet really helps me. I dont know if i can trust him but I take the Xifaxan for 2 more month because I tolerate it well. If he prescribes me more ABX after 5 months I will stop taking it. The risk to destroy the gut is to high...
And (!) All my markers for leaky gut are negative, but I have digestion problems for all my life...

 

[barbc56]

KDM has tests for leaky gut. This is just one example of his lack of science and why I don’t trust him as leaky gut is a made up health condition with an unvalidated test. If you are diagnosed with LG, then the appropriate diagnosis and treatment needed is missing and this could cause serious harm.

Judging from PubMed, if you are going to rely on reality and science as your basis for the diagnosis for leaky gut syndrome, it would be more accurate to say that because of an almost complete lack of supporting basic science and few therapeutic clinical trials showing no effect, virtually no physician who has an understanding of the gastrointestinal physiology gives the disease credence

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/leaky-bowel/

 

[unicorn7]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-r...-is-real-may-be-the-cause-of-several-diseases

I have found a lot of articles about leaky gut ( look for hyperpermeable bowel) on pubmed, there has been some research on it in ME/Cfs as well.

Other than that, there is a lot of research going on in the microbiome area and Maureen Hanson mentions leaky gut in her presentations as well. She did some research on biomarkers like LPS and CD14.

I’m not too keen on antibiotics, but rifaximine is not absorbed, so it only works in the gut. Resarch has shown that is only works in the small intestine and that it doesn’t lead to antibiotics-resistance in the bacteria of the colon.

Seems to me that it is a pretty safe option. For me, it works extremely well. Got rid of all my bowel problems, my inflammation markers are going down and I’m feeling a lot better.

 

[justy]

KDM has tests for leaky gut. This is just one example of his lack of science and why I don’t trust him as leaky gut is a made up health condition with an unvalidated test. If you are diagnosed with LG, then the appropriate diagnosis and treatment needed is missing and this could cause serious harm.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/leaky-bowel/

Intestinal permeability however and bacterial translocation, is what KDM diagnosed me with. These are just the correct terms. When KDM uses the term Leaky gut, he most likely is saying that as a way for a lay person to undertsand intestinal permeability. If you see this research on Liver function, you can see intestinal permeability and bacterial translocation is a validated diagnosis, which is believed to cause all manner of health issues

The luminal side of the intestine is lined by epithelial cells, which promote water and nutrient absorption; the epithelium also provides a dynamic and semi-permeable barrier between the luminal microbiota and the host. The barrier is formed by individual epithelial cell membranes and tight junction proteins that seal the paracellular space between adjacent cells. Thus, the permeability of this barrier is regulated by the integrity of cellular plasma membranes and tight junctions, as well as by epithelial cell processes mediating secretion and absorption. Small molecules (<300 Da) and electrolytes passively cross the tight junction barrier (Sun et al., 1998). Both physiological and pathological stimuli change the barrier permeability. During homeostasis the intestinal epithelium absorbs nutrients while effectively preventing translocation of intraluminal bacteria. However, pathological conditions (e.g. toxins or intestinal inflammation) can increase the paracellular pathway and adversely affect barrier permeability, which poses the risk of an ineffective nutrient absorption and a failure to prevent the translocation of luminal bacteria and their products (also called pathogen associated molecular patterns or PAMPs). This can result in chronic intestinal diseases, but it might also affect other distant organs that drain and filter translocated bacteria and associated PAMPs (Sun et al., 1998; Turner, 2006; Marchiando et al., 2010a; Fouts et al., 2012).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451427/


It was discovered not that long ago, that Zonulin had a role to play in intestinal permeability - being increased in people who show problems with the tight junctions in the gut

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21248165

In turn we can see that KDM uses a stool test to check for levels of Zonulin, which may indicate intestinal permeability

Zonulin opens up the spaces between the cells of the intestinal lining. That normally occurs, in order for nutrient and other molecules to get in and out of the intestine

Bacterial immunobilan


The immunobilan test is an antibody screening assay (IgA and IgM) directed against antigens from intestinal pathogens. IgA are secreted from intestinal cells, IgM are produced by immune cells in the blood. In healthy individuals, pathogenic bacteria are only found in low quantities in the gut and antibody titers in the blood are very low. However, in case of bacterial overgrowth, large quantities of lgA are produced and some of it will be found in the bloodstream. In case of "leaky gut" , bacterial proteins may make their way into the bloodstream and specific IgM will be produced. Therefore, hight titers of IgM for intestinal bacteria is an indicator of increased intestinal permeability. All immunobilan bacteria are strictly associated with the gut, with exception of Klebsiella which is also associated with respiratory and urinary tract infections.

I had the above test done and it showed high levels of IGM against a variety of gut microbes in my blood stream. Bcaterial translocation is a known medical issue.

http://www.redlabs.be/ida

Do note that 'leaky gut' is used in quotation marks to show its colloquial use for intestinal permeability etc.

 

[Learner1]

KDM has tests for leaky gut. This is just one example of his lack of science and why I don’t trust him as leaky gut is a made up health condition with an unvalidated test. If you are diagnosed with LG, then the appropriate diagnosis and treatment needed is missing and this could cause serious harm.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/leaky-bowel/

As stated before, sciencebasedmedicine is not a credible source of medical information. The folks who run it seem to be highly educated, arrogant jerks with their heads stuck firmly in the sand, with zero interest in helping any of us. They pan many issues, diagnostics, and treatments that may be quite beneficial for many of us.

The integrity of the intestines and microbiome are well recognized by leading medical institutions as important underpinnings to health:

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/features/leaky-gut-syndrome

https://www.nutritionletter.tufts.e...articles/The-Lowdown-on-Leaky-Gut_2239-1.html

And see attached, which gives a detailed description.

 

[msf]

Intestinal permeability however and bacterial translocation, is what KDM diagnosed me with. These are just the correct terms. When KDM uses the term Leaky gut, he most likely is saying that as a way for a lay person to undertsand intestinal permeability. If you see this research on Liver function, you can see intestinal permeability and bacterial translocation is a validated diagnosis, which is believed to cause all manner of health issues



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451427/


It was discovered not that long ago, that Zonulin had a role to play in intestinal permeability - being increased in people who show problems with the tight junctions in the gut

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21248165

In turn we can see that KDM uses a stool test to check for levels of Zonulin, which may indicate intestinal permeability




I had the above test done and it showed high levels of IGM against a variety of gut microbes in my blood stream. Bcaterial translocation is a known medical issue.

http://www.redlabs.be/ida

Do note that 'leaky gut' is used in quotation marks to show its colloquial use for intestinal permeability etc.

It was really kind of you to do all that research for barbc56

 

[ljimbo423]

Here is Maureen Hanson's study on the gut microbiome and intestinal permeability in CFS from June 2016-



Results
We observed elevated levels of some blood markers for microbial translocation in ME/CFS patients; levels of LPS, LBP, and sCD14 were elevated in ME/CFS subjects.

Levels of LBP correlated with LPS and sCD14 and LPS levels correlated with sCD14. Through deep sequencing of bacterial rRNA markers, we identified differences between the gut microbiomes of healthy individuals and patients with ME/CFS.

We observed that bacterial diversity was decreased in the ME/CFS specimens compared to controls, in particular, a reduction in the relative abundance and diversity of members belonging to the Firmicutes phylum.

In the patient cohort, we find less diversity as well as increases in specific species often reported to be pro-inflammatory species and reduction in species frequently described as anti-inflammatory.

Using a machine learning approach trained on the data obtained from 16S rRNA and inflammatory markers, individuals were classified correctly as ME/CFS with a cross-validation accuracy of 82.93 %.

Conclusions
Our results indicate dysbiosis of the gut microbiota in this disease and further suggest an increased incidence of microbial translocation, which may play a role in inflammatory symptoms in ME/CFS.
https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-016-0171-4


Jim

 

[Nickster]

As stated before, sciencebasedmedicine is not a credible source of medical information. The folks who run it seem to be highly educated, arrogant jerks with their heads stuck firmly in the sand, with zero interest in helping any of us. They pan many issues, diagnostics, and treatments that may be quite beneficial for many of us.

The integrity of the intestines and microbiome are well recognized by leading medical institutions as important underpinnings to health:

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/features/leaky-gut-syndrome

https://www.nutritionletter.tufts.e...articles/The-Lowdown-on-Leaky-Gut_2239-1.html

And see attached, which gives a detailed description.

@Learner1 you are right on with the fact that the current medical community does not know anything about this disease and they don't seem to want to branch out to figure it out. So we need to be skeptical with their findings and recommendations.

It takes a person who specializes in this or willing to think outside of the box that we can somewhat rely on. It's tough to find.

We are riding a covered wagon into the new frontier of medicine. It's hard.

 

[justy]

It was really kind of you to do all that research for barbc56

Hhah - you crack me up. Im here to help, where i can

 

[justy]

Here is Maureen Hanson's study on the gut microbiome and intestinal permeability in CFS from June 2016-



Results
We observed elevated levels of some blood markers for microbial translocation in ME/CFS patients; levels of LPS, LBP, and sCD14 were elevated in ME/CFS subjects.

Levels of LBP correlated with LPS and sCD14 and LPS levels correlated with sCD14. Through deep sequencing of bacterial rRNA markers, we identified differences between the gut microbiomes of healthy individuals and patients with ME/CFS.

We observed that bacterial diversity was decreased in the ME/CFS specimens compared to controls, in particular, a reduction in the relative abundance and diversity of members belonging to the Firmicutes phylum.

In the patient cohort, we find less diversity as well as increases in specific species often reported to be pro-inflammatory species and reduction in species frequently described as anti-inflammatory.

Using a machine learning approach trained on the data obtained from 16S rRNA and inflammatory markers, individuals were classified correctly as ME/CFS with a cross-validation accuracy of 82.93 %.

Conclusions
Our results indicate dysbiosis of the gut microbiota in this disease and further suggest an increased incidence of microbial translocation, which may play a role in inflammatory symptoms in ME/CFS.
https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-016-0171-4


Jim

Thanks, Jim for this,

KDM also tests for LPS and sCD14 - he also considers these markers for microbial translocation, so clearly he and Maureen Hanson are in accordance with this.

 

[keenly]

KDM has tests for leaky gut. This is just one example of his lack of science and why I don’t trust him as leaky gut is a made up health condition with an unvalidated test. If you are diagnosed with LG, then the appropriate diagnosis and treatment needed is missing and this could cause serious harm.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/leaky-bowel/

That site is ran by crooks who know nothing. That site has received funding from COCA COLA in the past. They are con men who do nothing but bash supplements, organic food and they promote GMO food.

 

[keenly]

As stated before, sciencebasedmedicine is not a credible source of medical information. The folks who run it seem to be highly educated, arrogant jerks with their heads stuck firmly in the sand, with zero interest in helping any of us. They pan many issues, diagnostics, and treatments that may be quite beneficial for many of us.

The integrity of the intestines and microbiome are well recognized by leading medical institutions as important underpinnings to health:

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/features/leaky-gut-syndrome

https://www.nutritionletter.tufts.e...articles/The-Lowdown-on-Leaky-Gut_2239-1.html

And see attached, which gives a detailed description.

Yep. I have had direct run ins with them in the past. They are crooks. They literally promote statin drugs and one of them has written articles saying Organic food should be banned. Madness. Clearly those they serve profit from pesticides. Nobody should pay any attention to their crappy articles.

 

[Binkie4]

Anyone with a known tick bie and M.E should probably jiust get treatment with an ILADS Dr IMHO

Hi Justy
I have only just seen your reply. Thanks. What is an ILADS doctor please? I had almost decided to pay for a western blot but gp discouraged me.
I do need the heart surgery soon, complex according to surgeon. Waiting for test dates. Will probably wait till after that but have no idea about ILADS. Have only started to look up Lyme this year. I have a number of comorbidities, non ME, so I have a lot of doctors but not ME related so a bit behind on the theory so ILaDS
Could you just say a bit more @justy

 

[justy]

Hi Justy
I have only just seen your reply. Thanks. What is an ILADS doctor please? I had almost decided to pay for a western blot but gp discouraged me.
I do need the heart surgery soon, complex according to surgeon. Waiting for test dates. Will probably wait till after that but have no idea about ILADS. Have only started to look up Lyme this year. I have a number of comorbidities, non ME, so I have a lot of doctors but not ME related so a bit behind on the theory so ILaDS
Could you just say a bit more @justy

http://www.ilads.org/ilads/about-ilads.php

It depends which continent you are in? NO ILADS Drs is UK, but others in Germany, Belgium, Finland etc. Lots in US, the website above has more info and lists of Drs i think.

If i was in US i would see Jemsek in Washington and not mess about with other Drs. Hes pretty onto it and his patients have great recovery rates, as far as i can see. Even if in Europe, if you can travel, Jemsek still a good bet - unless you dont tolerate drugs.

 

[Binkie4]

@justy
Thank you for the link. Will be looking at this after surgery. Am in uk but visit NYC so will have a glance there. I do usually tolerate drugs. Such a lot to see and do. Good luck with your health.