One of the most effective ME/CFS treatments, the Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine, discontinued in 2005, is available once again from a new source

[serafim]

@mattie what kinda side effects did you get?

 

[mattie]

@serafim
After the 0.3 mL and higher Medgamal injections, I developed red, warm skin reactions about 5–7 cm in diameter, usually appearing 2–3 days after the shot. A few days later, marble-sized lumps also formed at the injection site. These are likely granulomas—small localized immune reactions to the injected substance, which can occur with vaccines containing adjuvants like aluminum. They are harmless but can take 3–5 weeks to fully subside.
No other side effects.

 

[serafim]

@serafim
After the 0.3 mL and higher Medgamal injections, I developed red, warm skin reactions about 5–7 cm in diameter, usually appearing 2–3 days after the shot. A few days later, marble-sized lumps also formed at the injection site. These are likely granulomas—small localized immune reactions to the injected substance, which can occur with vaccines containing adjuvants like aluminum. They are harmless but can take 3–5 weeks to fully subside.
No other side effects.

Thanks for sharing. That’s really annoying, maybe I should titrate faster (0.3-0.5-0.7-1) cause I don’t want to end up with a back full of granulomas

 

[mattie]

cause I don’t want to end up with a back full of granulomas

I’m getting a new one every week, and they tend to be a bit larger with the higher doses. I prefer doing the injections in the stomach — there’s a bit more space to spread them out there.
They’re not painful, just kind of annoying.

 

[Looking for Answers]

@glazevedx also told me that he got these lumps when he injected the Russian vaccine, he said:


On the assumption that it is the aluminium hydroxide adjuvant in the vaccine that is remaining at the injection site for several days causing a granuloma lump, possibly using an aluminium chelator like silica or magnesium malate may reduce the length of time the lumps remain. Aluminium hydroxide is insoluble in water, so I imagine disperses slowly.

Although it is possible that clearing the adjuvant more quickly with a chelator might reduce the immune benefits of the vaccine. But ChatGPT says "vaccine granulomas mostly reflect the reaction to the adjuvant (eg aluminium), not necessarily the vaccine's antigen".

This post gives some info about silica as an aluminium chelator.





I wonder if this viscosity is a characteristic of the new formulation of th Russian vaccine? I believe the manufacturer Medgamal stopped producing the vaccine for a few years to update their production process. The old formulation that I used in 2016 was not viscous.

Hi,

I just got my Medgamal staph vaccine. I just re-read all of the posts here. Just trying to make sure I have all the key information. You mentioned filter needles versus regular needles. Would it make sense to use the regular needles to put it into the Bacteriostatic water and then use a filter needle to extract it from that. Also, from where do you buy Hospira bacteriostatic water. There seems to be lots of different bacteriostatic water listed on Amazon. Also, which needles are you using and can you provide a link to where your purchased them.
Thanks

 

[Hip]

Also, which needles are you using and can you provide a link to where your purchased them.

For injection, I used very thin yellow 30 gauge needles (outer diameter 0.3 mm) which are ½ inch long, and used 2 ml plastic syringes. I bought the needles here in the UK. In the US, Amazon appears to stock them.

It's usually a good idea to inject a 1 ml volume of liquid slowly over a period of 60 seconds or so. What I do is squeeze in around 20% of the liquid, then wait for 15 seconds, and then squeeze in another 20%, etc, until the whole 1 ml is injected.

Hospira bacteriostatic water can be bought here in the UK, and here in the US. There are brands other than Hospira as well.

Would it make sense to use the regular needles to put it into the Bacteriostatic water and then use a filter needle to extract it from that.

I've never used filter needles, but I think you would just use those for the injection itself. When you are pushing needles through the rubber stoppers of bacteriostatic water bottles, it blunts them a bit, so it is a good idea to use a fresh sharp needle for injection.

If you are being fastidious, you can disinfect the surface of the rubber stopper of the bacteriostatic water bottle with an alcohol disinfectant before pushing in the needle, to minimise introducing bacteria into the bottle via the needle insertion.

Note that you never remove the rubber stoppers on bacteriostatic water bottles; to add or remove solution to the bottle, you push a needle through the stopper, and then squeeze liquid in, or suck liquid out, with a syringe attached the the needle.

Incidentally, since I did not use filter needles, what I did to minimise the amount of glass fragments getting into my vaccine vial is to hold the vial at about a 30 to 45° angle to the horizontal while snapping it open, rather than holding it vertically. If you hold it vertically, it makes it easier for the fragments to fall downwards by gravity into the vial.

Good luck!

 

[Looking for Answers]

Thanks for the feedback,

 

[datadragon]

My first thought is that its interaction with ADAM10 subsequently lowers NLRP3 inflammasome activation.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11886709/

This will make more sense after reading one of these recent posts of mine below and may further help confirm a good general target of the NLRP3 inflammasome for some of the cases in which that activation of NLRP3 such as a virus is what is mainly fueling the WASF3 increase and leading to PEM/exercise intolerance in that case, rather then something that is more directly activating INFy increase.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/your-experience-with-hbot.93182/post-2480465

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/ketamine-and-rtms.93584/#post-2480289

This may also be relevant since INF-a was what dr phair was focused on and that also leads to inf-y
This one metions neutralization of IL-1α inhibits the antiviral activity of IFN-γ by 90%, whereas no inhibition of type I IFN activity was observed. Indeed, the antiviral activity of IFN-γ depends largely on the basal level of NF-κB, which is maintained by constitutively expressed IL-1α. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568997221000227#s0070

Alpha toxin bind to the cell surface protein ADAM10. Ref: 1 ADAM10 is involved in several aspects of immune regulation, and ADAM10 activation may promote T-cell exhaustion, which makes it harder to clear viruses. So alpha toxin may hamper viral clearance.

 

[Malcolm1978]

My first thought is that its interaction with ADAM10 subsequently lowers NLRP3 inflammasome activation.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11886709/

This will make more sense after reading one of these recent posts of mine below and may further help confirm a good general target of the NLRP3 inflammasome for some of the cases in which that activation of NLRP3 such as a virus is what is mainly fueling the WASF3 increase and leading to PEM/exercise intolerance in that case, rather then something that is more directly activating INFy increase.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/your-experience-with-hbot.93182/post-2480465

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/ketamine-and-rtms.93584/#post-2480289

This may also be relevant since INF-a was what dr phair was focused on and that also leads to inf-y
This one metions neutralization of IL-1α inhibits the antiviral activity of IFN-γ by 90%, whereas no inhibition of type I IFN activity was observed. Indeed, the antiviral activity of IFN-γ depends largely on the basal level of NF-κB, which is maintained by constitutively expressed IL-1α. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568997221000227#s0070

Alpha toxin bind to the cell surface protein ADAM10. Ref: 1 ADAM10 is involved in several aspects of immune regulation, and ADAM10 activation may promote T-cell exhaustion, which makes it harder to clear viruses. So alpha toxin may hamper viral clearance.

This happened to me after I got covid the first time and why the staph vaccine caught my attention. I hope someone can give it a few months and see how it goes. I have a feeling I'd get a few weeks of feeling good and then crash.

3 years ago after getting covid the following happened to me and I was wondering if anyone can relate.

April 16th 2022
: got covid and feeing terrible. legs especially incredibly weak

17th
:no change

April 19th
: Starting to feel a little better and my head is clearer, fatigue not as severe.

April 20th
: continuing to feel a little better and decided to clean drive with power washer

April 21th
: tired and some muscle pain after yesterday but the tiredness is more related to yesterday than the regular fatigue.

April 22th
: still a little sore but able to do some work in the front garden

April 23th to 29th
: continuing to feel ok and spend the week cleaning the decking, emptying the shed, hanging some shelves and finally getting the cement done on the decking paving stones.

April 30th
: Got up late after sleeping well and decided to get my hair cut. feeling good and planning the next few days. Around 8p.m I can feel the extreme fatigue starting to come back. over the following few days right back to feeling lifeless and the brain fog is back, depressed.


I did get covid again last year but it made no difference to me the second time which I assume was because the antibodies where in my system.

 

[serafim]

I got my third shot recently and I do not recommend using the same injection site after 2 weeks! It was very painful. I’m going to use the buttocks for the next two shots.

Too soon to tell if it’s doing anything but at least I don’t think I’ve had any side effects

 

[mori]

I received the vaccine supply recently and will be starting soon.

 

[Hip]

In terms of how long it takes for the benefits of the Staphypan Staphylococcus vaccine to manifest, this post says:

Ninan kindly put me in touch with an ME/CFS patient in Sweden who did very well on the original Staphypan Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine. This patient said she started to feel the first inklings of improvements after 2 weeks taking the vaccine, with the full benefits taking 3 or 4 months to manifest.

I heard a similar story from another patient in Sweden (a professor of medicine with ME/CFS) who takes Staphypan, who told me "it took about 4-5 month until I was completely convinced about the positive effect".

In rare cases, it can take up to 6 months before the benefits appear.

 

[mattie]

In rare cases, it can take up to 6 months before the benefits appear.

that’s likely going to mean plenty of granulomas for me. I’ll finish the 20 ampoules I bought to give this a fair shot.

 

[Hip]

that’s likely going to mean plenty of granulomas for me.

I wonder if drinking Volvic mineral water daily, which contains orthosilicic acid, might help disperse the granulomas more quickly, as orthosilicic acid chelates the aluminium adjuvant which causes the granulomas.

This is pure speculation though, as I have not seen any studies which demonstrate that aluminium chelators can help with granulomas.

 

[Hip]

I asked five AI bots about the mechanism of granuloma formation, and these bots all gave the same explanation, which is as follows:

• After injection, insoluble aluminium hydroxide adjuvant particles remain in the tissue for a long time.
• Macrophages and other immune cells are then recruited to the injection site to clean up this foreign material.
• Macrophages engulf the adjuvant particles, but since they cannot fully degrade them, the material accumulates inside the cells.
• When the body cannot eliminate the foreign material (in this case, the adjuvant), it walls it off by forming a granuloma, which is a collection of immune cells, mainly macrophages, epithelioid cells, and multinucleated giant cells. This is a chronic inflammatory reaction designed to contain and isolate the irritant.
• Granulomas are often itchy and can persist for months or years.
• In rare cases, they may develop into a sterile abscess (non-infectious pocket of pus-like fluid).

I never had any granulomas appearing when I injected the Russian adsorbed Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine (though this was the old formulation of this vaccine).

I asked AI "why do some people experience vaccine granulomas from a given vaccine containing an aluminium adjuvant, but other people do not?".

AI gave various answers, such as:

• Individuals who have a Th2-skewed immune system may react more strongly to adjuvants like aluminium.
• Someone previously sensitised to aluminium — perhaps from earlier vaccines, antacids, or deodorants — may react more strongly to subsequent exposure. This can explain why granulomas sometimes occur only after multiple injections.
• Areas with poor circulation may clear adjuvants more slowly, promoting granuloma formation.

AI also suggested that injecting intramuscularly rather than subcutaneously can reduce the risk of granuloma formation.

I then asked five AI bots this question: "for a toxoid vaccine with an aluminium adjuvant, which type of injection is more immunogenic: subcutaneous or intramuscular?".

All the bots said that intramuscular injection is more immunogenic, and that intramuscular gives the optimal immune response.

 

[mattie]

The granulomas are neither painful nor itchy in my case. They are gradually shrinking, and I estimate it takes about 4-8 weeks for them to completely disappear. ChatGPT also suggested an IM injection, but I responded that I find that suggestion totally irresponsible since this vaccine was clearly not developed for that use.

 

[serafim]

The granulomas are neither painful nor itchy in my case. They are gradually shrinking, and I estimate it takes about 4-8 weeks for them to completely disappear. ChatGPT also suggested an IM injection, but I responded that I find that suggestion totally irresponsible since this vaccine was clearly not developed for that use.

Mine were a little itchy. But I didn’t get any granulomas when I injected into the buttocks.

I stopped after 0,5 ml. It made me worse. I still haven’t recovered to where I was before the injections.