OCD- help. (Possible methylation issues)

[Luke1111]

Hi guys,

I've been suffering with OCD since about January 2018. Prior to this I had always had some anxiety but not the extent of my OCD.

In June 2019 I made a major breakthrough in discovering I had severely low b12. Initially I stayed Methycobalamin as I my research told me this was the best form to take. The methy b12 made my OCD 100 times worse and I couldnt handle it.

I was then informed by someone on this site that I may have a methylation issue (comt) gene and i should switch to hydroxy b12.

Long story short i switched to hydroxy b12 and it has been nothing but a miracle. After a day or two i could feel my OCD drifting away and I got much better.

Anytime my OCD got bad I would simply increase my b12 and this would rid me of my OCD.

For 9 months I have felt like I didnt have OCD. However it appears to have slightly come back to a lesser extent (85% gone). I have upped and upped my b12 but this slight OCD remains.

This has also coincided with me taking a b complex which felt like it made my OCD worse. However I have now been off this a week and the OCD persists.

It is very frustrating as I havent had this type of OCD my whole life and everything seemingly fell apart 2 years ago when my b12 started to get low.

Is there anything else I can do or does anyone know anything else that can help other than the b12? Or if I may have a methylation issue?

I dont believe this is something I cant fix as it has happened so sudden.

Hoping someone may be able to chime in with some advice.

Thanks,
Luke

 

[Pyrrhus]

For 9 months I have felt like I didnt have OCD. However it appears to have slightly come back to a lesser extent (85% gone). I have upped and upped my b12 but this slight OCD remains.

This has also coincided with me taking a b complex which felt like it made my OCD worse. However I have now been off this a week and the OCD persists.

It can take time to get used to a B complex. It's common to have negative effects when starting a B complex, and these effects can last for a couple weeks.

Sometimes, switching to a different brand of B complex can help. Personally, I use "B-minus" from the company Seeking Health, which does not contain any folate/B9 or B12. Once I was able to tolerate this B complex, I then slowly added methyl-folate and hydroxo-B12. But everyone's experience is different.

Hope this helps.

 

[JES]

B complexes may be a bad idea if you suffer from "overmethylation" issues. I get anxiety and a restless feeling from most B vitamins, never really achieved tolerance to them. Niacin and niacinamide in particular is the exception, B3 actually has the opposite effect in terms of "methylation", so that may be something you'd want to test.

 

[Luke1111]

Hi JES and Pyrrhus. Thank you very much for getting back!

At the moment I am at a a loss. But I have tried some Niacin last night and I do feel a little bit less OCD. I'm going to take another 50mg soon, I'm hoping this isnt just my mind making a placebo.

I just have a few questions guys if that's ok:

1) How come I was able to take hydroxy b12 for 9 months without any startup methylation?

2) Why do you think the Hydroxy b12 was able to rid me of my OCD?

3) Also, I have taken b complexes in the past for a week or so and the anxiety or overthinking stopped after quitting the complex and I was fine. This time i have probably taken it for about 4 weeks and it appears to have made my OCD worse still even though I've been off it for 7 days.

4) I once took Niacin in the past to help my blood sugar (for my adrenals). I took around 400mg for around 5 days. After the 5th day i began to feel awful, like severely depressed and in a dark place. Do you think its possible that affected my methylation?

5) Do you guys think it is likely I have a methylation issue?

I do apologise for the amount of questions. I feel like I've gone from being so confident regarding my OCD being eradicated to back in the same place I was 9 months ago.

Thanks,
Luke

 

[Pyrrhus]

1) How come I was able to take hydroxy b12 for 9 months without any startup methylation?

I can't answer with any certainty without knowing more about your metabolic state at the time. But, for optimum methylation capacity, you need all the B vitamins together, especially folate/B9 and B12. If you take just B12 without also taking folate/B9 at the same time, it won't boost your methylation capacity. You need both at once.

2) Why do you think the Hydroxy b12 was able to rid me of my OCD?

That's an even harder question to answer accurately. But poor methylation capacity due to a B12 deficiency has been associated with a number of different neurological symptoms. It has been suggested that the reason why poor methylation capacity causes neurological problems is because the myelin sheath around the nerve cell requires methylation. But this is probably an overly simplified suggestion. There are many parts of the nerve cell that depend upon methylation, not just the myelin sheath.

3) Also, I have taken b complexes in the past for a week or so and the anxiety or overthinking stopped after quitting the complex and I was fine. This time i have probably taken it for about 4 weeks and it appears to have made my OCD worse still even though I've been off it for 7 days.

B vitamins can build up in your body to some extent and the downstream effects of a sudden B supplementation can take some weeks to "dissipate". 7 days may just not be enough time for the effects to wear off.

4) I once took Niacin in the past to help my blood sugar (for my adrenals). I took around 400mg for around 5 days. After the 5th day i began to feel awful, like severely depressed and in a dark place. Do you think its possible that affected my methylation?

I think it's more likely that the huge megadose of niacin disrupted the balance of some critical metabolic processes. Niacin is not really involved in the methylation cycle.

5) Do you guys think it is likely I have a methylation issue?

Again, it's hard to say without knowing more about your metabolic state. But, if you can get to a point where you can tolerate all B vitamins without any negative effects, then you can be sure that you are doing your best to correct your methylation capacity.

Hope this helps.

 

[Luke1111]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I took the Niacin for around 10 days and stopped the b12.

So I havent had the b complex for around 17 days and it was 11 days without b12. I had a 11 days of neither and just taking Niacin.

The Niacin helped with my anxiety/ocd and dampened it down quite a lot. However it also made me feel depressed and I still had some OCD.

I have taken b12 today and yesterday and i feel like it helps my OCD but i can feel a surge of anxiety, like my thoughts cause pressure at the front of my head and it's hard to think. Sometimes I get these odd sensations where it feels like I'm going to jump out my skin I csnt describe it.

Can someone help with what's going on? I did 10-11 days without any supplements except for Niacin and now when I take b12 it feels like something isnt right. When I used to take b12 it erased my ocd and i felt great. What is happening?

Hope you guys may be able to help,
Luke

 

[Pyrrhus]

Welcome Luke, to the exclusive club of people who have negative reactions from B12.

It's a small club, as I recently found out with a poll:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/b12-a-simple-5-second-poll-for-everyone.80150/

Over the last 7 years of my illness I have developed Pure OCD. At the beginning this did not present itself so much but has gradually got worse to the point in which i have now been diagnosed with OCD by the NHS. I have tried CBT which has helped some. However, I believe the condition has developed more so due to deficiencies (leaky gut, gastritis). My reasoning behind this is due to the massive effect NAC had on my ocd symptoms.

Symptom improvement from NAC was:
Less compulsions
Less intrusive thoughts
Less rumination
Thoughts have less grip and able to move on
Less doubt
Overall less anxiety.

I did my research. And having always thought I may have a methylation issue I decided to use Methy B12. After 24 hours from using it my OCD went through the roof and was 10x worse.

I was taking a B complex for around 8 weeks with around 800mg of folic acid in.

After around 4 or 5 weeks my ocd became came back again and felt much worse. This has happened before temporarily when I have taken folic acid but only for a few days. I was advised by posters on here that I may have ramped up methylation or had a methyl trap.

I started my protocol in April and took my last b complex on May 17th of this year. I have gone off supplements (even the b12) for weeks at a time to see if I get better but to no avail.

If anyone can help my questions are:

1) Can methylation go on for this long?

2) When will I be able to take b12 again without negative affects?

3) What is actually going on? Why is hydroxy b12 now doing this all of a sudden?

It sounds like what you experienced before with the Hydroxy-B12 and your OCD disappearing was, unfortunately, a one-time fluke. I'm not sure there is a way to "go back to it". In fact, you may still have a ways to go before you can finally tolerate B vitamins without OCD. And, as you suspected, NAC may end up being the key to it.

Since I am also a member of the club of people who have negative reactions from B12, I will share what worked for me. However, in my experience, the proper treatment makes you much much worse before you feel better. And it takes a lot of time and patience. But fixing my B vitamins and glutathione have resulted in the biggest lasting improvement in all my years of trying supplements.

So here's a simplified approach to treatment:

1) Start by supplementing all the non-methylation B vitamins. Personally, I use "B-minus" from the company Seeking Health, which does not contain any folate/B9 or B12. If I recall correctly, it took me about 2 weeks before I could take this daily without any effects.

2) Start on a low dose of N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC), in order to recover your glutathione. I had truly horrible effects from NAC at first, but they eventually went away after a month or two. I took a single dose of 500mg the first week, on Monday. The next week I took a dose on Monday and a second dose on Friday. The third and fourth weeks I took doses on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. The fifth and sixth weeks I took doses all through Monday to Friday, but not on the weekends. The seventh and eighth weeks I took 500mg NAC every day.

3) Then start taking 400mcg methyl-folate on a daily basis. Methylfolate is also known as 5-MTHF, among other names. Stay away from the synthetic "folic acid", which can occasionally cause problems. When I started methylfolate I had terrible side effects, but they went away after a few weeks.

4) Slowly increase the NAC dose from 500mg per day to 1000mg per day. The first week, add an additional 500mg dose on Monday. (You can take one dose in the morning and the second dose at night.) The next week I took an additional dose on Monday and an additional dose on Friday. The third and fourth weeks I took additional doses on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. The fifth and sixth weeks I took additional doses all through Monday to Friday, but not on the weekends. The seventh and eighth weeks I took 1000mg NAC every day. I still needed a couple of weeks afterwards to get used to the higher dosage, but I eventually got there, and it felt great.

5) Start taking 250mcg sublingual hydroxo-B12, once every other week. I bought a bottle of 2000mcg lozenges and carefully cut each lozenge into 8 tiny pieces. I placed a tiny 250mcg piece under my tongue and let it absorb. Even with such a small dose, I had very strong negative effects at first, but these negative effects only lasted 2-3 days after each dose. (Which is why I only took it every other week!). After 2 years, I now get only quite minor effects from the B12.

Anyway, that's what worked for me. Best wishes!