Not Really A Newsflash, But At Least A Long Overdue Admission Of Potential Dangers And Warning Regarding Benzos, Anti-Anxiety Drugs, etc

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

While I doubt this will change much of anything in the near-term, at least it's a start, and may reduce the number of lives unnecessarily damaged or destroyed by the casual prescribing of profoundly brain and CNS-scrambling drugs, administered at unrealistic and unsupported dosages and for waaay too extended periods of time.

And then often withdrawn, just as casually, leaving patients in dreadful states of confusion, pain, and tolerance withdrawal with neither guidance, support, or a knowledgeable, managed tapering plan.

Popular anti-anxiety medications may be highly addictive, FDA says. But is the warning too late
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/popular-anti-anxiety-medications-may-100600932.html

 

[geraldt52]

The trouble isn't so much with the FDA, but with the doctors who prescribe the benzos, ignoring everything that is already known about them and then leaving their patients to fend for themselves when things go off the rails.

I have to say, after the most horrible experience with Klonopin that one can imagine, that I never found the benzos "addictive" in the classic sense. It was never that I "craved" a benzo, but rather that my body lost the ability to function without one. I think that that is more than a distinction without a difference, but doesn't diminish how ill-advised it is to take these drugs for more than a few weeks, except in rare exceptions.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The trouble isn't so much with the FDA, but with the doctors who prescribe the benzos, ignoring everything that is already known about them and then leaving their patients to fend for themselves when things go off the rails.

I couldn't agree more if I'd written your quote myself.

Here's repost of a comment I made in another thread, and apologies if you've already read it, but I think it's appropriate here:

"While I totally agree with you, and am appalled at the way so many Drs, from dentists to dermatologists and gynecologists to gastroenterologists hand out mind and spirit bending psycho-actives like anti-d's, anti-convulsants (touted by their manufacturers as being effective against anxiety, depression, you name it, altho they were developed for epileptic seizures which sadly, didnt produce the expected revenue streams), anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety drugs, benzodiazepnes, and the coyly named Z-Drugs, (which are benzos in a hipper suit) like they were party favors at very large wedding.

The truth is that used judiciously and with thoughtful and informed oversight, they can be a life saver, short term, for a lot of people.

But they never seem to be prescribed short-term, and Drs rarely, if ever, warn their patients about the fire-breathing dragons waiting at the end of that tunnel when the Dr, for whatever reason, decides to take their patients off them, usually waaaaaay too fast, causing indelible, long term, sometimes life-time damage to a structure that the more honest among them will admit that none of them really understands fully, or often at all: the brain and the CNS."

It was never that I "craved" a benzo, but rather that my body lost the ability to function without one.

This is how the classic 'addict' starts. That's what addiction is. No one usually sets out to become addicted or dependent on drugs. They simply have been over-medicated to the point where they can't function without them, where life becomes an endless hell of trying to escape the effects of the absence of the drug.

Benzos work on the GABAa receptors, and by their very presence, down regulate them to the point of non-existence. by supplying exogenous GABA til your system stops producing any of its own. GABA is the soothing, relaxing neurotransmitter that kicks in to stabilize the system and defeat excessive glutamate, the excitotory neurotrnasmitter, which is essential for learning and innumerable critical enzyme conversions. But when it's all that's firing in your brain, brain cells get overworked to the literal point of death, and you go into severe withdrawal, with a system that can no longer produce what you need to stop it and stabilize you.

It;s called TOLERANCE WITHDRAWAL, and it drives more people back into the arms of benzos like Ativan, Xanax, Klonopin, diazepam, etc, then the FDA would ever be willing to count.

I think that that is more than a distinction without a difference,

No. It's a distinction with absoultely NO difference, except that you didn't have to hang out in dark alleys to become dependent. You just had to walk into a Drs office.

Tolerance withdrawal is classic drug withdrawal. It's the same thing that heroin addicts and opioid addicts go thru.

but doesn't diminish how ill-advised it is to take these drugs for more than a few weeks, except in rare exceptions

It not only doesn't diminish that fact, it underscores it, highlights it, and surrounds it with flashing neon lights.

The FDA will do nothing. After all, they approved the off-label use of a drug that was created, manufactured, and marketed originally for epileptic seizures, in an effort to unseat Dilantin as the reigning king of that hill and get some of that sweet, sweet, cash running into their coffers instead.....

But that rich cash flow turned out to be a light trickle, and casting about for other ways to make back their R&D expenditures, they sent out their armies of attractive young 'drug reps', who whispered to Drs that Klonopin had shown promise as an anti-anxiety drug. They didnt mention that the maximum dosage the manufacturer recommended was .25 to .50 mgs, and for no longer than 4-6 weeks, MAX.

The rest is a sort of disgusting history, with the shattered lives of hundreds of thousands of victims left screaming in a long, long trail behind it.

 

[Judee]

Not to mention they prescribe these things for everything under the sun. I really think there is an effort to get as many people on these drugs as possible. Rheumy doctor prescribed for Duluxotine for Fibro (which I don't think I have). Before taking it, I read the reviews. Yikes!!!

Since my ALJ SSDI hearing was coming up I didn't want to be in "non-compliance" so I took two little pebbles out of one capsule. Never again. Had side effects that lingered for a week and a half.

Vitamin D worked to take down my severe pain and even got rid of a floater that an eye doc said I would have to live with for the rest of my life.

Plus I never went back to that Rheumy. (One positive to come out of being turned down for SSDI is I didn't have to worry about following the doctor's orders when common sense said, "No way.")

On top of that, I think he was on drugs himself, to be honest.

 

[Dufresne]

Right on the heels of Jordan Peterson leaving rehab and then speaking out against irresponsible prescribing of these drugs. Could be a coincidence, I suppose.

 

[Mary]

@YippeeKi YOW !! , thanks for posting this. It's astonishing - almost unbelievable - that the FDA is only now going to require warnings about the risks of dependency, etc. with benzos. I love benzos. I took lorazepam 1 mg in the middle of the night for 11 years, for sleep, and I'd still be taking it, only it had stopped working so I needed more and I knew there was no end to that slippery slope. It took me about 8 months to get off of 1 mg. I thought I'd have no problem because I didn't take it during the day, but my sister who is a drug and alcohol counselor was a bit concerned. I did manage to quit (and learned a LOT about sleep and excitoneurotoxicity in the process), and feel like I got off lightly compared to many others.

I just read an article about Jordan Peterson who went to Russia and then Belgrade to recover - incredible. There was no help for him here in the west apparently!

 

[Judee]

I just read an article about Jordan Peterson who went to Russia and then Belgrade to recover - incredible. There was no help for him here in the west apparently!

Mind blowing articles like this one are further proof: A doctor gave me an inept diagnosis for a neurological problem. I should know: I'm a neurologist.

In that article he exemplifies so much of what is wrong with medicine in the west which basically boils down to a stubborn persistence not to learn from their own mistakes.

 

[JES]

Basically no mainstream doctor prescribes benzos in western Europe anymore, I once obtained a prescription but it was 15 years ago, after that perceptions started to change. Maybe this is an issue with USA being more open in general about doctors' rights to prescribe whatever they think is best. This has both pros and cons, the con being you cannot obtain any off-label treatment for ME/CFS in basically any European country.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Right on the heels of Jordan Peterson leaving rehab and then speaking out against irresponsible prescribing of these drugs. Could be a coincidence, I suppose.

I think that it probably is.

The truth is that a LOT of patients are suing Drs over irresponsible prescribing of these drugs, followed by INCREDIBLY irresponsible and reckless dumping of patients when the DEA started cracking down first on opioids a couple of years ago, and then looking more closely at benzos, and even more closely at Drs who's history of writte prescriptions showed an unusually large number of them for benzos.

Drs panicked, and threw patients they'd been prescribing these drugs for, often for years, overboard with no follow-up help, no taperinng or advice other than a dangerous, reckless, and ineffective " ....just cut your dose by half every 2-3 days for the next ten days to two weeks and you'll be fine, fine, fine ....".

Tapering patients off these drugs is a separate and highly DEA overseen specialty, requiring a whole new set of of accreditations, training, and licensing, and there's frequently fewer than 2 per state, if that many. It requires enormous patience and oversight on the part of the Dr, and gritty determination and endurance by the patient, and they're not all successful.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I just read an article about Jordan Peterson who went to Russia and then Belgrade to recover - incredible. There was no help for him here in the west apparently!

Absolutely none, along with a resolute refusal by almost all prescribing Drs to admit the effects of these drugs on the human brain and nervous system, and the devastatng damage they do to almost everyone who's pushed in their direction.

 

[Capecodder]

I’m glad this issue is getting discussed, and hope things change drastically in terms of how these drugs are prescribed. And I hope people read this bf ever considering this “deal with the devil” drug. Klonopin has ruined my life, to the point I am now suicidal over the harm caused by the drug. I don’t know how to continue. The harm caused by it is much worse than my underlying condition. I’m on my third attempt to go off. less than 1% reduction in the med is setting off horrific pain, insomnia, nightmares, fatigue, muscle tightness, IBS, depersonalization, migraines...the list goes on. I’ve successfully gotten off other drugs (legal) in the past. I just can’t tackle k. I’m in severe tolerance, and feel like I’m on the edge of a cliff, being chased by a bear, with the choice being to jump or be ripped apart.
I was prescribed K in 2012 for muscle tightness/CFS. I now know I have hEDS and CCI. Both painful in and of themselves.
I see so many destroyed lives in these benzo forums. In my opinion these drugs should be illegal. Or prescribed sparingly, no more than 1-2 per month.

 

[perrier]

Yes, these drugs are not handled correctly by physicians. If they put someone on this drug, they should check in with them no later than 10 days later. I was told by my GP that you become addicted after two weeks.

I know so many folks with ME who are on Klonopin. It is a hell drug. It was prescribed for sleep and 'excitability" and now these young people cannot get off this nightmare. It is a long perilous road trying to get off. I supposed getting tiny compounded doses and slowly decreasing is the only option but it will take a very long time. How our young people have been damaged. On Naviaux's newsletter page he has a piece he wrote about all the damage done to this generation by drugs and the environment.
" Cell danger response Biology—The new science that connects environmental health with mitochondria and the rising tide of chronic illness"
I was unable to paste it in for some reason.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I’m on my third attempt to go off. less than 1% reduction in the med is setting off horrific pain, insomnia, nightmares, fatigue, muscle tightness, IBS, depersonalization, migraines...the list goes on.

Klonopin is hellish to get off of. I dnt know how long it's been prescribed for you, but for some people it can cause tolerance withdrawal in 2 to 4 weeks.

Roche created Klonopin to cut into the income flow from the more successful, and even more damaging, Dilantin. When that didnt provide the income stream they'd hoped for, their army of attractive short-skirted sales reps whispered to Drs that they'd found that Klonopin was effective in dealing with anxiety,depression, etc. That's when the income stream turned into an absolute Niagara ....

Apparently, no surprize, the Drs didn't bother to read the Roche Labs monograph that accompanied Klonopin regarding its use for anxiety issues: max dose of .25 to .50 mgs, preferably once a day, for 2 weeks optimally, 6 weeks at absolute MAX ....

I’m in severe tolerance, and feel like I’m on the edge of a cliff, being chased by a bear, with the choice being to jump or be ripped apart.

I've felt your pain.

You may need to make teeny, tiny cuts, tho 1% seems pretty small. And you probably need to space those cuts more widely than your Dr suggested, or that logic may dictate. If you're hyper-sensitive, or have been hyper-sensitized, to Klonopin, a 1% cut every 2 (way too soon, probably) to 6 (better, but may not be optimal for your system) to 8 or more weeks. Your brain has been seriously battered by this crepe, and the longer that battering has gone on, the slower and lower your taper and taper cuts should probably be.

Magnesium can be an enormous help. MAGNESIUM GLYCINATE is particularly good, since glycine, an amino acid, is of itself calming and soothing to your battered GABA / Glutamate balance, somethingthat gets totally screwed when you take any benzo-related medication. Try taking 50 mgs every 30-60 minutes, with small amounts of Vit C, maybe 100 to 250 mgs every few doses. A little melatonin might also help you, probably around half of a 1 mg pill or tablet every few mag doses.

I was prescribed K in 2012 for muscle tightness/CFS.

This is irresponsible to the point of criminality, and the sign of a Dr that probably slept thru much of medical school and/or had someone else take his exams for him.

I can;t think of any reason why this would work better than other, safer, options. If he was aiming at the muscle relaxing abilities of something like Valium/diazepam, you;d have been way better off on a small dose of that, since it has a MUCH longer half-life than Klonopin and would require way less frequent dosing, and therefor a much longer interval before tolerance withdrawal would set in, requiring a higher dose to get the same level of relief.

I'm not a big fan of any benzos due to tolerance withdrawal and the hell of total withdrawal, even with careful, informed tapering, but used carefully and judiciously, they have their place.

The problem is that most Drs skip the 'carefully an jusiiously' part.

Good luck, and let me now if you have any questions, yes?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I know so many folks with ME who are on Klonopin. It is a hell drug.

I ABSOLUTELY agree.

I'm baffled by why so many Drs prescribe this unbelievably hellish benzo, but I think it's due to profound ignorance and even deeper laziness, along with little to no regard for their patient's well-being or potential future agony.

It really pisses me off. BIGLY .....

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I never had problems with benzo withdrawal ... for god’s sake ... but withdraw antidepressants has always been a nightmare... I now prefer to have depression over taking these drugs. and honestly: they never really worked. The only thing that can cure my depression is an improvement of my ME

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The only thing that can cure my depression is an improvement of my ME

Oh, @Martin aka paused||M.E. , I was soooo bummed to read about the, hopefully temporary, Abilify failure /hiatus.

I don;t know what's worse: going thru the day to day misery of this weevily little torment of an illness with no visible means of improvement on the horizon, or finding something that helps only to have it give you the metaphorical middle finger and disappear in a cloud of sulfurous dust.

You've been so brave and determined .... don't give up, Martin, and don;t let this temporary set-back put any kind of hitch in your git-along. Easy to say, harder to do ..... ....

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Oh, @Martin aka paused||M.E. , I was soooo bummed to read about the, hopefully temporary, Abilify failure /hiatus.

I don;t know what's worse: going thru the day to day misery of this weevily little torment of an illness with no visible means of improvement on the horizon, or finding something that helps only to have it give you the metaphorical middle finger and disappear in a cloud of sulfurous dust.

You've been so brave and determined .... don't give up, Martin, and don;t let this temporary set-back put any kind of hitch in your git-along. Easy to say, harder to do ..... ....

I can answer your question: it’s harder to find sth, making plans, being happy, meeting with friends, drinking, laughing, working, cooking, walking.... and then being in the same hell as before ... so yes, hopefully it’s temporary...
thank you so much for your kind words!!!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

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