Non alcoholic beer clinical study!

[Dysfunkion]

Hi @Dysfunkion

I'm grateful to you for resurrecting this thread and I'd like to add a product recommendation for others.

In the U.S. I know of HopTea (tea with hops) and HopLark (mineral water with hops, I think).

I found myself strangely relaxed after trying those products and the next time they are on sale I will try them again. Thanks for the nudge!

No problem! Unfortunately it was a one off thing as tonight when I tried again the effects were much weaker at the same amount and just made me more sleepy and a little more focused and I was able to at least sit still enough for a show. No real "feel good" effects this time save for the very basic relief that can't possibly get better as some degree of tolerance clearly instantly developed. An annoying headache too.

Really don't know what to do from here, everything that makes me better in some ways has horrible neurological regressions in others, then I switch something around, whatever the issue is in my nervous system adapts, and then that just repeats in a different presentation. It's like having various forms of fatigue and neuropathy on shuffle.

update from morning - This morning though in terms of focus and some level of physical comfort I feel better but pretty drained after it having almost a diet coke version of effects the next night trying it. Sleeping took a little longer to get to but it was much deeper. Don't really know what to think here on it but I'm leaving it be at the moment.

 

[ChrisD]

Hi @Dysfunkion

I'm grateful to you for resurrecting this thread and I'd like to add a product recommendation for others.

In the U.S. I know of HopTea (tea with hops) and HopLark (mineral water with hops, I think).

I found myself strangely relaxed after trying those products and the next time they are on sale I will try them again. Thanks for the nudge!

Not to be a party pooper but something to bear in mind with Hops is that they are quite estrogenic I believe, and obviously many of us M & F are dealing with oestrogen dominance. So basically every component of beer is not great, but everything in moderation.

 

[bad1080]

It wasn't intoxicating but had a very familiar kava vibe to the experience that I'd get much later into the night if I was consuming a lot without the weed like buzz but a weed like flavor to the feeling from the terps if that makes sense.

hops is in the same family as cannabis (Cannabaceae)

 

[Dysfunkion]

hops is in the same family as cannabis (Cannabaceae)

Yeah I wish the feeling stuck but it was giving me cravings anyways which in another way wasn't good.

As of right now the dose from yesterday has left me less tired now than the first dose did the night before when the effects were heavier. Digestive system itself isn't too happy with the hops tea. This did like I said calm down whatever neurotransmitter storm from the vitamin C high dose was kicked up. And on that I actually have something weird I want to test since in that "improvements from dietary changes" topic the one other thing I get major fluctuations in how I feel from is cooked salmon. The only thing common about everything causing shifts is that there seems to be ingredients in what I consume is that there seems to be some almost broken excitory/inhibitory neurotransmitter balance problem that can't really achieve proper homeostasis but its vulnerable to be shifted around from various consumed compounds. When it's jacked up, it stays up and causes major problems. When it's too low I am prone to extreme crashes like the one that landed me here in severe for the first time in my life after that looking back likely lions mane kindled saw palmetto crash. I tend to do better when things are actually on the lower end of energy because the higher end when it does get jacked up in an excitory loop makes it almost impossible to even work or do much outside interacting with others.

 

[perchance dreamer]

In recent years, I've stopped drinking altogether since even a little bit with a meal makes me feel bad the next day. It's fine, but occasionally when I have Indian food, I miss beer. It's just the drink for that spicy cuisine.

 

[Dysfunkion]

In recent years, I've stopped drinking altogether since even a little bit with a meal makes me feel bad the next day. It's fine, but occasionally when I have Indian food, I miss beer. It's just the drink for that spicy cuisine.

I miss beer in general, I do actually enjoy it sometimes but I just know touching alcohol for me is a bad idea even if just a little these days. I will also miss Indian food as the vast majority of it contain curcumin which I have a very bad reaction to now. Next week I am going out for some Thai food though and there's some things I can have from that cuisine.

I didn't have any hops last night, today I feel a bit better from whatever I caught in the past week, a bit head achy and have some malaise. I'll try the hops again tonight as I'm curious to see what will happen effects wise if the same thing will just now repeat over and over again without change along with how I feel the next day. I also do have like I said in another post that yucca supplement coming in tomorrow which I wonder if it might actually help with my guts if it's the sulphur compounds in hops causing some of the issues with it. I do feel clearer mentally and even after a day without them can sit down and enjoy a show or anything much easier. I'm also wondering if it helped something and there is a herx element to it. Only one way to find out like usual!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

When I was growing up, in the late 1950s, Hops were being grown outside Sacramento CA: everywhere. a vine climbing these very tall trellises.

That ceased. Nobody around there grows hops. I wonder who still does? Or where its happening.

 

[Dysfunkion]

When I was growing up, in the late 1950s, Hops were being grown outside Sacramento CA: everywhere. a vine climbing these very tall trellises.

That ceased. Nobody around there grows hops. I wonder who still does? Or where its happening.

Probably just on larger farms, when I was digging around to see who was selling them there's a handful of sites but many of them are just distributing them. I ordered a couple different strains from somewhere in Washington. I was surprised to see so little out there condiering how popular IPA's are.

---

On what happened last night I made a tablespoon to start with, had a tablespoon more, and then a 3rd which would be the max dose. The first and second had the same effects as the night before only this time there wasnt any big headache or over sedation feeling. The first table spoon had sort of a more stimulating effect, the second more sedating, and the third stimulating but I was able to sleep very well and sit still much easier as I enjoyed a show later and actually was able to take more of it in. Today I feel more awake than I did in the afterglow of the first and second day but in the background more calm and comfortable. Definitely one of the more puzzling roller coasters I been on with something.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I ordered a couple different strains from somewhere in Washington

Seeing these HOPS fields, growing up. I had to look it up. Where did all that go?

Hops farming declined in California due to some diseases, and then the Pacific Northwest came up with less labor intensive methods. Also, people are making more beer without hops.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Seeing these HOPS fields, growing up. I had to look it up. Where did all that go?

Hops farming declined in California due to some diseases, and then the Pacific Northwest came up with less labor intensive methods. Also, people are making more beer without hops.

I honestly never seen one in person in New England up here wherever I been. There is a lot of wine fields and beer breweries up here but not native hops. I'm not sure how one makes beer or what besides flavor the function of hops in beer is (do all of them generally use at least a small amount? Is there some list somewhere because now I'm curious).

---

On the current hop activities, I tried them last night and the result was about the same as the night before. The yucca I tried as I mentioned in another post gave me more physical energy without being stimulating and mental stability (? hard to describe, just more focused and functional). This morning that same effect repeated subtly, the hops afterglow + the yucca is a great combo though because I haven't been this clear and focused mentally in a while if a bit sedated from the hops but I can cut the dose back a tablespoon or brainstorm some other ways to use it. We'll see if this keeps up but I also want to take out the hops and see what the yucca does on its own.

edit - Ok so the game plan here is to have the hops tonight and then tomorrow we're just going to be on the yucca (Yucca glauca dried root capsules - half the dose listed on the bottle - Secrets of the Tribe brand) and see how I feel over the next few days. Since i'm the only person that has tried this combo I'm in uncharted waters here and don't really know what to expect.

 

[Dysfunkion]

So it's been a couple days since I cut the hops out and left in the yucca capsule, there is definitely no dependence factor with the hops as I didn't even really get any distinct rebound from dropping them. With just the yucca I feel generally more energetic and capable. Not much for my mood but it seems to relieve some degree of inflammation as my speech is also a bit better on it. I tried a few tablespoons of the hops again last night and the effects are less drastic now but it generally makes me much more calm and focused and lasts into the next day (not sure for how long but there is a slow burn off of effects with me). The hops are also what is primarily causing in better senses as with just the yucca they are a little brighter but that's it. The hops seem to almost lift a sensory veil I don't often even know is there until I have the contrast whatever is going on there.

Since it applies here on some sexual aspects of their effects with me. On both of these my sexual functioning is much better overall. Yucca alone helps POIS symptoms a bit but the combination drastically improves it and makes it easier to recover. this combination has also completely cured me of what was left of my PFS/PSSD like syndrome symptoms I had from my likely lions mane kindled and saw palmetto triggered crash (which also what landed me in severe territory for the first time). Not sure what that means but yes it also did all of that.

edit 4/18 - Last night I tried the new hops I got in that were 10.6 alpha acids which was way too much, it was absurdly sedating and I really been feeling it into today. So obviously the Biokoma one's a far lower in alpha acids and tonight I'm not having any as I want to pass this out of my system first (I can't find any information on the half life of alpha and beta acids in the body so I'm just going by feel). Same general effects though but the much higher alpha acids profile really blunts the more "feel good" effects I got out of the Biokoma one's. I was quite functional and productive today under the more intense after glow sedation from the higher alpha acids though. Just feeling pretty tired in a more general sense right now. Tomorrow I'll see how I feel and possibly get back to the other one's as I wait for the 3.8 percent alpha acid hops I ordered to come in hoping that's about right and that it's not something else about the Biokoma one's that make them so good in my case.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Update on the hops, still using them at a few tablespoons every night. As I used them more the mouth dryness side effect has stopped and the effects are much more mild. Overall I feel better and function better with them on top of the yucca. The only side effect I'm currently having is some bloating that's likely compounded with my immune system being a bit haywire right now due to the high pollen in the air and how I physically over did it the past couple days and messed my back up a bit (this also caused some bloating for some reason, so it may largely be this and the immune reaction compounded the effects of the hops on my guts). I'll just need to keep going and see. The 4 percent alpha acid strain should be in next Tuesday to see if that matches the effects of the biokoma one's with the mystery alpha acid content.

 

[bad1080]

On the current hop activities, I tried them last night and the result was about the same as the night before.

could you post a picture or a link to what it is you're taking? is it like dried and powdered hop umbels?

edit: another thing i can find here are blossoms

 

[Dysfunkion]

could you post a picture or a link to what it is you're taking? is it like dried and powdered hop umbels?

Its the Biokoma brand, whole flowers, I brew them in tea. This combination with the yucca is the only thing that seems to get me further into mild. Not sure why, if i'm tired with this stack im super exhausted in a more normal way. Like today i'm at work and realized I forgot to eat my breakfast this morning and i'm running on empty here. It also makes me feel a bit more sedated at times a bit more than I'd like sometimes. On Monday ill be able to try the new ones and im "hopping off" for now till then to get a clearer picture. I dont want to use these all the time either and I dont like the digestive effects but I feel like I tried almost everything else under the sun at this point.

 

[bad1080]

thanks!

I dont like the digestive effects

what are they?

 

[Dysfunkion]

thanks!

what are they?

Just some more bloating and motility is a bit slower with them. If you already have issues there that might also be an issue.

 

[bad1080]

how long before bed do you drink the tea? or how long after you drank it you feel the effect?

 

[Mary]

In recent years, I've stopped drinking altogether since even a little bit with a meal makes me feel bad the next day. It's fine, but occasionally when I have Indian food, I miss beer. It's just the drink for that spicy cuisine.

Some 20 years ago one glass of wine would leave me feeling sick for the entire next day, and 2 glasses would make me sick for 2 - 3 days. And then my chiropractor who did muscle testing found that my liver was overloaded with toxins primarily from a job I'd had in my late teens where I had heavy exposure to chemical solvents. I did a liver detox under his supervision - it took a month and was quite unpleasant, felt crappy and tired the whole time, but at the end of the month my digestion was so much better. I also started taking milk thistle to help protect my liver, and since that time have been able to drink like a "normal" person. But I don't drink beer now because of the calories!

 

[Dysfunkion]

how long before bed do you drink the tea? or how long after you drank it you feel the effect?

A couple hours because usually I do as im enjoying some shows later. There's no intoxicating effect but don't go for high alpha acids, I tried a 10 percent strain before and it just about knocked me out.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Some 20 years ago one glass of wine would leave me feeling sick for the entire next day, and 2 glasses would make me sick for 2 - 3 days. And then my chiropractor who did muscle testing found that my liver was overloaded with toxins primarily from a job I'd had in my late teens where I had heavy exposure to chemical solvents. I did a liver detox under his supervision - it took a month and was quite unpleasant, felt crappy and tired the whole time, but at the end of the month my digestion was so much better. I also started taking milk thistle to help protect my liver, and since that time have been able to drink like a "normal" person. But I don't drink beer now because of the calories!

I have a feeling thats my situation too or was when I was much worse to a much higher degree because I'd react the same way to wine. Even when I was drinking wine was off limits, I always felt like death after wine for days after.