Nicotine protects against neurodegeneration (activated microglia)

[Hutan]

I tried a 4 mg nicotine lozenge again today. It is placed under the tongue and dissolves slowly.

Within minutes I was feeling dizzy and nauseous. There was possibly a slight improvement in my vision. But I went for a drive (just around the quiet streets nearby) as it is when driving that I am most conscious of the blurriness. And it really didn't seem to be better.

(By the way, the blurriness isn't fixable with lenses. My optometrist and I have tried. She is convinced it's neurological. And the blurriness gets worse with PEM.)

Perhaps it wasn't a fair test as I am in a bit of a crash today from a busy few days. But I haven't been able to replicate what seemed to be a significant improvement in my vision from the first lozenge on two subsequent tries. And, some 5 hours after having the lozenge, I still feel sick from the nicotine.

So, for me, I think I'm going to cross nicotine off the list of things to try and move on to something else.

 

[trails]

I posted this on another thread but will repost it here on the off chance someone may find it useful or interesting.

I suffered with progressively worsening muscle fatigue and PEM for about 10 years, but those were pretty much my only symptoms and I could live with them. Then a little over a year ago, virtually overnight, I was hit with the full range of other symptoms - persistent and overwhelming fatigue, interrupted sleep patterns, significant cognitive issues, nerve pain at base of neck and across shoulders, etc.

Interestingly, all of the last year's symptoms (other than PEM) appeared within a month of quitting cigarettes and have persisted without letup ever since. Over the last month or so, I've resumed vaping nicotine through an electronic cigarette (which I ironically used to quit smoking real cigarettes). I've definitely seen a fairly significant improvement in cognitive symptoms as a result of restarting the e-cigs (12mg nicotine).

 

[AaroninOregon]

LOL, your hubby sounds a lot like mine.

Snuss is thinly sliced and chopped dried out tobacco (similar to dried tea leaves). They put it in a packet that looks like a tiny tea bag. You use it by putting it inside your top lip. Sweden has some (not all) snuss that is pasteurized in a way so that many of the harmful chemicals are taken out. They also have nicotine only snuss. However, both are expensive. All snuss in america has all the harmful chemicals still in it. However, it is much cheaper. I've been thinking about switching to sublingual nicotine tabs to see if they work just as well.


EDIT TO ADD ARTICLE: Here is an interesting article on Snus (whoops, it only has one s on end) http://science.howstuffworks.com/snus3.htm

Excellent. One more form of nicotine to experiment with. I just can't do smoking on a regular basis (chronic bronchitis).

Thanks @Mya Symons

 

[Battery Muncher]

I tried a 4 mg nicotine lozenge again today. It is placed under the tongue and dissolves slowly.

Within minutes I was feeling dizzy and nauseous. There was possibly a slight improvement in my vision. But I went for a drive (just around the quiet streets nearby) as it is when driving that I am most conscious of the blurriness. And it really didn't seem to be better.

(By the way, the blurriness isn't fixable with lenses. My optometrist and I have tried. She is convinced it's neurological. And the blurriness gets worse with PEM.)

Perhaps it wasn't a fair test as I am in a bit of a crash today from a busy few days. But I haven't been able to replicate what seemed to be a significant improvement in my vision from the first lozenge on two subsequent tries. And, some 5 hours after having the lozenge, I still feel sick from the nicotine.

So, for me, I think I'm going to cross nicotine off the list of things to try and move on to something else.

Have you tried a lower dose? If you haven't tried nicotine before, 4mg is a really huge dose. It would probably make me throw up.

 

[Hutan]

@Battery Muncher
Yes, the second time I just had half of the lozenge. Pretty much the same level of nausea (yup, I thought I might throw up) although it didn't last as long. But no discernible effect on vision or energy levels.

 

[leela]

FWIW I found a site called virginvapor that has a line of pharma-grade nicotine vaping liquids made with organic ingredients, and without propylene glycol.

 

[Mya Symons]

I can't even believe anyone would try this. Both of my grandparents died from throat cancer due to smoking. Trade this for that. My mom lives on oxygen due to emphysema and COPD. No thanks.

This is too crazy for me.

Even if it's an electronic cig...it still puts out chemicals of a toxic nature.

Let's all just do cocaine! Joke.

I think your right Misfit Toy. If you are not a smoker or already use tobacco, it is probably not a good idea to start for any reason, especially with a weakened immune system. It is a habit that I started when I was 13 and haven't been able to break, even though I have tried so many times.

As far as I know nicotine by itself is still a cancerous substance. It is a natural pesticide created by the tobacco plant to keep away insects. Pesticides, whether man-made or natural, seem to always be a cancer risk for humans. It is true that it is less of a risk when it is not combined with the other chemicals in cigarettes or burned. But it is still a risk.

 

[leokitten]

If you are a tobacco smoker I would think again about any positive effects of smoking. The potential short-term neuroprotection exerted by nicotine is completely erased by the fact that over the long-term tobacco smoke accelerates neurodegeneration. Smokers experience significantly faster cognitive decline as they age:

Impact of smoking on cognitive decline in early old age: the Whitehall II cohort study

Now I know this study only involves people who smoked tobacco, not those who only used other nicotine containing products. Maybe in the future it would be possible to do such a longitudinal study with an additional cohort of non-tobacco nicotine users.

I would guess that likely much of the neurodegeneration is caused by all of the toxic chemicals in tobacco smoke, but I believe that a significant amount of neurodegeneration is also caused by nicotine itself due to the fact that it is a potent vasoconstrictor staving the brain of blood and oxygen as well as a sympathetic nervous system activator.

Also personally I think that PWME who are in the "wired but tired" subgroup should really think twice about smoking or using nicotine, it's almost certainly making your ME/CFS worse. It's a vicious cycle because the reduced cerebral blood flow and sympathetic activation caused by smoking and nicotine exacerbate the sympathetic activation you likely already have and cause you to feel more stressed and anxious which then makes you feel you have to smoke more to calm yourself down.

 

[lansbergen]

If you are a tobacco smoker I would think again about any positive effects of smoking. The potential short-term neuroprotection exerted by nicotine is completely erased by the fact that over the long-term tobacco smoke accelerates neurodegeneration. Smokers experience significantly faster cognitive decline as they age:

It does the opposite for me. At 70 I am much better than I was at 50.

QUOTE="leokitten, post: 623482, member: 12350"]Also personally I think that PWME who are in the "wired but tired" subgroup

I was in the "wired but tired" group

 

[heapsreal]

Im a non smoker but alternative forms of nicotine have interested me as i have read they can help increase dopamine . Low dopamine i think can play a roll in our cognitive problems as well as lower pain and improve energy and mood.

so the other day while at the chemist I bought nicotine gum, 2mg pieces suppose to be equal to 1 cigarette . Half life is suppose to be 1hr. From what i have researched all the negative effects of smoking dont seem to happen in other forms of nicotine like gum. Also found research showing lower incidents of neurological conditions amongst smokers, although increased incidents of most other health issues .

I have had some extra fog of late , so time to experiment . The gum tasted ok and it worked within minutes and my fog cleared. Felt like most of my brain was now turned on. I took this at 6pm but found it didnt effect my sleep but used my normal sleep meds . This first time, i did start some sweating after several hours.

This morning i took the gum again as usually find it hard to get going first thing in the morning . It kicked in quick and aga8n turned my brain on. I find the first 2hrs ate the strongest eeffects and tapers down slowly but still helping 5hrs plus.

I find the effects not to different to modafinil although the gum kicks in alot quicker. Im guessing the similar effects are due to increases in dopamine . I'm suprized the effects last as long as they do.

its not something i would want to use all the time but once or twice a week should help to avoid tolerance issues.

I wonder if dopamine helps as it has anti inflammatory effects in the brain, not just its stimulating properties . Many dopamine agonist have neuroprotective effects which have been found in modafinil studies.

 

[Grigor]

This is a very interesting thread.

My first major crash of ME came 3/4 of a year after stopping to smoke . With CMV. Didn't think much of it . I started smoking again cause of the boredom of always being home.
That was 2007 ??

Then in 2012 I stopped again. Now again after 3/4 of a year I crashed again. This time I went into housebound . And I'm still there. So I did wonder if stopping to smoke triggered something . Or a lack of something.

I mean yes not smoking is for sure healthier . But I am way fatter now and crashed after stopping . Obviously it would have been better not to start in the first place. But maybe I need a replacement of some sort indeed.

 

[panckage]

E-cigs are my back up plan but I'm a lifelong non-smoker so not too keen.

The patches may be giving you too much nicotine. My dad started using the patches after a many year pack a day habit. When he first started the patches I remember him commenting they made him feel woozy and unwell.

When I was well I used ecigs to boost my memory when my brain wasn't working so well. As soon as I took a puff or 2 my brain instantly hit top notch form. This effect only lasted for 15min or so I think though.

I'm interested in trying again but it looks like its illegal to import them to Canada now