New MEGA study website (30 November 2016)

trishrhymes

Senior Member
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2,158
I don't suppose for one minute that people are being straight about MEGA. Funding is already earmarked from what I understand and so hence, I guess, the rush for an I'll thought through application, which is just a formality.

I'm not so sure funding is secured. They were originally saying they were going to apply for a grant that had a September 2016 deadline that is earmarked for new collaboratives. This seems to have gone up in smoke, without any explanation to us mere mortals.

My wild guess on this is that the people at Wellcome saw through their 'collaborative' for what it is - Crawley wanting to set up yet another data source for her meddling, with Holgate as heavyweight support and Sonya Chowdrey as cheerleader. The rest of the researchers seem to have been rounded up to put their names to it with very little involvement. Of course I could be wrong...

To me this application which seems to be to a different Wellcome pot earmarked for setting up research resources (biobank, data base etc.) smacks of last minute panic. I'm basing this guess on very little evidence, since they choose to give us very little information.
 

JoanDublin

Senior Member
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Dublin, Ireland
Better no research than bad research. Send the funds to the US or Australia and help real research.

Let's not forget Invest in ME who, at all times, have been absolutely principled, transparent, professional and diligent and true to the best interests of patients. There IS an alternative UK research option and it rests with them. Imagine what they could do with substantial investment?
 

user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
It would be excellent if AYME were to close down. The incompetence of those running that organisation has done so much to harm pwME in the UK.


My concern is that they Tymes trust don't have sufficient volunteers to cope with the additional load. But then with my experience of AYME they don't provide any help anyway.
 

Skippa

Anti-BS
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841
Eta: deleted, actually on reflection I really don't like this, where there's smoke there's fire and all that, but whatever, not my place
 
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Cinders66

Senior Member
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494
I actually think uk activists should move on from focusing on this. U.K. Establishment Is very good at dragging things out - the initial "priority deciding workshops" of the ME expert group; the bringing the 5 MRC 2012 funded researchers out of the cupboard and put on display at every conference until they eventually published years later; now the announcement of a big genetics & (eventual) omics study in 2015, yet not even applying for funding until 2017. .... tick tock

Meanwhile in the real world sufferers turn grey; lose their fertility; give up on dreams..

It seems the only thing the "consultation" period (& what have they been doing for a year if they haven't got protocol or application sorted?) has achieved is the banishment of Peter White. NICE will remain as the umbrella criteria, Esther and AYME/AFMe are going to stay patient selectors; BACME and fatigue clinics will, as Esther Crawley said years back, be the source of patients. What remains to be seen are whether the small number of established biobank samples (300 pwME?) will be included in the 10,000 and I assume this will be agreed- why wouldn't they as it will save money and be a nod to the "serious ME included". The " constructive criticism only" patient advisory committee might get a small victory on patient inclusion but "the community" will just see this applied for hastily in January, I assume Welcome trust funds granted and then MRC will continue spinning this saga as the only topic for years - first get the funding- then recruit which is supppsed to take a year? - then (drum roll) the exciting genetics research begins - then its 2020, then they might apply for funds to do some omics work or will that be 2022?

I think we should be outlining an alternative reality of what we expect in terms of research funds, definition, urgency and wide ranging approach and just lobby for it, trying to get the press involved if we can as I dont think there's going to be much internal pressure for much else than MEGA.
 
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Esther12

Senior Member
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13,774
My concern is that they Tymes trust don't have sufficient volunteers to cope with the additional load. But then with my experience of AYME they don't provide any help anyway.

I'm sure it would be disruptive, but the people at the top of AYME have shown that they're incapable of understanding the problems with what they're doing, and I don't see any other way of getting rid of them. Hopefully a place good be found for any good volunteers after a period of transition.

Mary-Jane Willow is just dangerously incompetent.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
I actually think uk activists should move on from focusing on this. U.K. Establishment Is very good at dragging things out

I see this as a critical problem as well. So long as there is some ME study in the pipeline bureaucracy can drag it's heels at making any change in the status quo and the researchers know enough to drag things out so that nothing is forthcoming in a very long time. No matter what is going on elsewhere it's not relevant to the UK especially if there is 'first class' research ongoing.

Meanwhile in the real world sufferers turn grey; lose their fertility; give up on dreams..

Also good to remember. For people suffering with this disease--this is their real world and nothing is happening in the UK to change that so long as BPS is steering the car.

The " constructive criticism only" patient advisory committee might get a small victory on patient inclusion but "the community" will just see this applied for hastily in January,

Even if the patient advisory managed to get some concessions, do they have the authority of oversight to see that those concessions are implemented?

I find it really difficult to understand how anyone can believe that this group is acting in good faith and that the planned research will lead to anything but more (B)PS BS. The only way this could be salvaged is if we could be very certain (B)PS has been eliminated from the equation. And that will never happen in these circumstances with the CMRC.

If there are researchers in the UK keen on doing right by ME patients by doing real biomedical research then let them do so away from institutional bias. But my guess is that they may find the best most tightly excellent proposal fails to find funding. And as I've been told other types of fundraising are not how things are done in the UK for research.
 

Jo Best

Senior Member
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1,032
The delays and absence of any sense of urgency in UK are reasons why Invest in ME Research got on with organising and funding a translational biomedical research strategy, so far crowdfunded by the charity's supporters, linked with working on establishing a UK Centre of Excellence for ME, based at world-renowned Norwich Research Park but in collaboration with other researchers in UK (e.g. UCL and Oxford) and abroad, facilitated by their international conference and colloquium events (IIMEC*) and evolving further by forming the European ME Research Group (EMERG). At one conference, referring to the Centre of Excellence, Dr. Ian Gibson said anyone could do anywhere else in the country what IiMER are doing in Norwich (obviously it takes great dedication to the task). It can be done and it is being done. Their new website btw, fyi anyone who's not seen it - http://www.investinme.org/
How sensible would it have been for Stephen Holgate to support and help expand what IiMER are doing instead of setting up an alternative CFS/ME Research Collaborative with a 'big tent' approach, which we discover, is not so inclusive after all and more of a cabal than a collaborative.
 

Jan

Senior Member
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458
Location
Devon UK
There seems to be some new information in the QA section.


Has the study been funded yet?
No. We are planning to apply for funding in 2017 for the first stage of the study, setting up the world’s largest Bioresource of data and samples from ME/CFS patients. Our aim is to create a resource that researchers all over the world can use. We will then apply for further funding for subsequent transcriptomics, metabolomics and other -omics studies, searching for the biological basis to ME/CFS, when the Bioresource is set up.

One HUGE fundamental flaw here, nobody else in the world will want to use the 'world's largest bioresource'

because NOBODY else in the world uses the ridiculous NICE criteria! It will be a useless waste of money.
 

JoanDublin

Senior Member
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369
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Let me predict how this is going to play out.

MEGA will plough ahead with some version of patient representation. They may even already have the patients selected - most likely paid up members of AfME and/or the MEA. They may get a sprinkling of new people approved by the MEA. Either way it doesn't matter to PWME because they will have no power anyway.

There will be no acknowledgement of the failure and the damage done by the Wessely school proponents by the MEGA team. That discussion will not be entertained.The Chair will make sure of that.

Those members of the PAG that think they have any hope of influencing MEGA will be sorely disappointed and very likely damaged in the process. All the decisions are already made. The stage is set. PACE, FITNET, MAGENTA, et al will be screaming away in the left wing but anyone on the PAG who wants to raise these issues will be told they are not the business of MEGA so therefore cannot be on the agenda.

Meanwhile, during 2017 many more people with ME will die. Crawley & Co will continue to churn out nonsense papers. She will continue to recruit youngsters for her dangerous projects. Some of them will have M.E. and others will have some other fatiguing problem. But that won't matter to her. Those with M.E. will be put in extreme harms way and pushed beyond their limits, perhaps never regaining the ground lost. They will continue to be bullied and harangued into complying with their therapists, some of their parents will be terrorised with child protection issues, Tymes Trust will be stretched to the limit supporting them, Nigel Speight will be trying to step into breach.....and on and on the circus goes.

And while all that is happening, MEGA will act like a large comfort blanket for Crawley, giving her a shield of respectability behind all these great scientists, while the PAG members get an up close and personal front seat of this spectacle. She will get unfettered access to whatever patient data that MEGA produces, allowing her to seamlessly swing into a new career avenue and churn out more rubbish papers based on the toxic mix of research subjects that MEGA will throw up.

Any patient on the PAG who tries to rock their boat will be subject to Kafka-esque attempts to limit their influence on any real decision making. This will be a deeply upsetting experience for the patient.

At some point in a press release further down the road, Holgate will admit that it has been "difficult to please everyone", but given the 'fraught history' of the disease, the team have made tremendous leaps forward etc etc etc. He will praise the PAG for their work and hope that it hasn't taken too much out of them. He will claim that great strides have been made in promoting "cooperation and partnership" and will cite the PAG as evidence of this. He will say that in the early days of MEGA there was a small, vocal minority who tried to get in the way of this ground breaking research and he will thank the PAG for their fortitude in sticking with it. He might even hope that they hadn't been harmed by the negativity of the 'vocal minority'.

Why oh why would anyone want to get involved with them?
 

Countrygirl

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5,671
Location
UK
Patients viewed through the eyes of Dr Esther Crawley ~

This was posted on FB and, I understand, is dated 2012. Recalling the verdict of the tribunal regarding the alleged charge of 'harassment' , it is illuminating to read how EC spins patients' objections to poor science and the resultant harm to a very sick patient group.

Threats of persecution

There are still many illnesses in which the cause is unknown or disputed - and this usually acts as a spur to further research aimed at achieving a more complete understanding. But there are a handful of disorders in which some patients become convinced that they already know the cause: so deeply convinced that alternative explanations are seen not merely as false but as put forward with malicious intent. Researchers who are investigating or merely discussing these alternatives, they believe, must at all costs be silenced. And “all costs”, in this context, can mean taking action against them as individuals.

Dr Esther Crawley is a senior lecturer at the University of Bristol and a consultant paediatrician with a special interest in chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalopathy (CFS/ ME). She’s based at the Royal National Hospital for Rheumatic Diseases in Bath where she runs a clinical service for children. CFS/ME is one of those illnesses plagued by violently to irrational prejudices about cause and cure. Here Dr Crawley describes her predicament, and how she overcame it with the help of the SMC and the science reporter for BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Tom Feilden

Dr Esther Crawley

For years we had felt, I think, like victims. I was quite new to it all but even I had started
to wonder whether I should give up. I was doing research that children and families wanted: investigating treatments for CFS/ME; trying to find how common it was in children; and exploring possible risk factors. Yet I was being subjected to an unrelenting attack from a minority of patients, none of whom I had ever met.

It had started with emails, letters and phone calls. Some were benign; they merely suggested I change research projects. Some were more malevolent. Some were threatening. I switched phone numbers, filed the letters and the emails and talked to the police.

Then the attack became a little more co-ordinated. There were frequent and repetitive Freedom of Information (FOI) requests. A scan of blogs quickly showed where these had come from.

This was followed swiftly by complaints to the National Research Ethics Service and the General Medical Council. The complaints again looked identical, were based on defamatory allegations and were clearly part of a co- ordinated attack.

The allegations of affairs, money making and conspiracy made my life seem much more interesting than it really was (or is). The Bristol University authorities were shocked but supportive. The allegations made my husband laugh.

Around this time, I started to talk to the SMC about why they were finding it hard to work with people in this field. This, I learned, was one of a handful of areas in which researchers did not engage with the SMC out of a fear of being persecuted.

The damaging consequences of this reluctance were widespread. Nationally we had developed a culture of not talking about CFS/ME research, not engaging in studies with the potential to cause problems, and not commenting on other peoples’ research. Journalists that dared to report or discuss CFS/ME were inundated with complaints, and many refused to write about it again. Maybe it was time to do something different.

The SMC organised a meeting so we could discuss what to do to protect researchers. Those who had been subject to abuse met with press officers, representatives from the GMC and, importantly, police who had dealt with the animal rights campaign. This transformed my view of what had been going on. I had thought those attacking us were “activists”; the police explained they were “extremists”.

The tactics of using threats and abuse, and then trying to prevent research using FOIs and reviews, had all been seen before. We discussed whether somebody at the top of one of the leading charities might be behind much of it, relying on others with a lower profile to take the abusive actions. We were told that we needed to make better use of the law and consider using the press in our favour - as had researchers harried by animal rights extremists. “Let the public know what you are trying to do and what is happening to you,” we were told. “Let the public decide.”

A few weeks later the SMC emailed to ask whether any
of us would be interested in talking publicly about what had happened. There was a debate among those who had been harassed over whether it was the right thing to do. The arguments against were that it would give more air space to those causing the abuse (the BBC traditionally reports both sides), and might end up doing as much harm as good. Personally I felt I had nothing to lose. I also felt that the children and the families for whom I was doing research deserved to know what was happening.

The SMC suggested that we talk to the BBC’s science reporter Tom Feilden. It is hard to trust again when you’ve been hurt, but the SMC was insistent that he was one“of the best”. They would trust him with anything, they said. He was a fair and responsible reporter. Tom visited for about an hour, listened to the research we were doing and recorded an interview. The piece was broadcast on the Today programme, and the response was unbelievable.

I took part in quite a few interviews that day, and have done since. I was also inundated with letters, emails and phone calls from patients with CFS/ME all over the world asking me to continue and not “give up”. The malicious, they pointed out, are in a minority.

The abuse has stopped completely. I never read the activists’ blogs, but friends who did told me that they claimed to be “confused” and “upset” - possibly because their role had been switched from victim to abuser. “We never thought we were doing any harm...”
 
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The Material from @Countrygirl 's last post is from the Science Media Centre's 2012 publication 'Views from the Frontline' .....

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/w...ews-from-the-front-line-essays-on-the-SMC.pdf


Esther Crawley, as quoted by the Science Media Centre:

"For years we had felt, I think, like victims. I was quite new to it all but even I had started
to wonder whether I should give up. I was doing research that children and families wanted: investigating treatments for CFS/ME; trying to find how common it was in children; and exploring possible risk factors. Yet I was being subjected to an unrelenting attack from a minority of patients, none of whom I had ever met."



What a dramatic 'radical/activist' sounding title: 'Views from the Frontline" ..... . Who would know that the Science Media Centre is actually a Corporate/Establishment Lobby Group?
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Who would know that Esther Crawley is an established and powerful medical professional, and that those who she accuses are utterly powerless sick ME patients and parents of severely sick children.
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Jan

Senior Member
Messages
458
Location
Devon UK
Esther Crawley says

'It is hard to trust again when you’ve been hurt'

You and the rest of the Wessely cult have hurt every single one of us, every single day we've been suffering this life destroying disease.

For me it's been 26 years 3 months. What have you all been doing during the last 26 years?

So many times I thought I would die and many more times I hoped I would. A few times I've considered suicide due to the endless suffering, unremitting pain and lack of care. I wasn't suffering from depression, but from a lack of hope due to suffering from a wretched disease that nobody cared about, due mostly to people like you.

You took away our hope, and for many of us the fight to carry on became too much to bear.

That is what it feels like to lose your trust Esther and co, how many suicides during your reign trying to psychologise what is now being revealed to be a physical illness? But we've always known this, it was you who chose not to listen.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
Esther Crawley says

'It is hard to trust again when you’ve been hurt'

You and the rest of the Wessely cult have hurt every single one of us, every single day we've been suffering this life destroying disease.

For me it's been 26 years 3 months. What have you all been doing during the last 26 years?

So many times I thought I would die and many more times I hoped I would. A few times I've considered suicide due to the endless suffering, unremitting pain and lack of care. I wasn't suffering from depression, but from a lack of hope due to suffering from a wretched disease that nobody cared about, due mostly to people like you.

You took away our hope, and for many of us the fight to carry on became too much to bear.

That is what it feels like to lose your trust Esther and co, how many suicides during your reign trying to psychologise what is now being revealed to be a physical illness? But we've always known this, it was you who chose not to listen.

@Jan

A very poinant response to Esther Crawley's petty whinging. Honestly, if it's so hard to be her researching ME then she can feel free to work elsewhere. She will not be missed by people who have ME.

No amount of CBT will cure us. For those of us who are sick we have learned the hard way that GET far from helping, makes us worse. Many have died, many have chosen to end their life due to the suffering. How dare she complain.

It would be great if something like this got a lot of signatures like "for me it's been a decade of severe disability" etc.

I liked your post--but well, you know what I mean.
 

Countrygirl

Senior Member
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5,671
Location
UK
https://spoonseeker.com/2016/12/03/taking-a-closer-look/#comments

Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere here, but I have only just stumbled across it and it contains important information.

One thing I did pick up from Holgate’s latest letter, however, is that you can in fact leave comments. You go to the ‘contact us’ page and write in the box. If you leave a comment, it isn’t clear what happens to it, but if you leave a question and it’s one that they feel like answering, they will stick it on the bottom of the question and answer page the next time they update it. It’s not exactly the level of interaction we are used to these days but I guess it’s better than nothing so it’s a pity they don’t explain it properly on the website.

The Q&A section has indeed already been expanded, and down at the bottom there are some questions which seem to have genuinely come from patients. Like this one for instance: Will you define the sample of patients and tests before the study starts or wait till data starts rolling in and then cherry pick the patients and data to best support your hypothesis?

I can’t see Professor Holgate penning that one. I think the world-weary cynicism reveals it as one from a patient or carer. I’m pleased to say that the answer given is reassuring enough: Once we have created the Bioresource, we will apply for funding to do the research. We agree that it is very important that analyses are defined before it is done. It will be a requirement that all scientists who use the MEGA Bioresource will submit an analysis plan prior to using the data or samples.

Here’s another question on the page: Will you ensure that only people with post-exertional malaise are included to ensure this is not a study about people who have unexplained fatigue, many of whom might have had an incorrect diagnosis of ME/CFS? The answer: We agree it is very important that we check that the diagnosis of ME/CFS is correct and will check the diagnosis at several stages during recruitment.

They seem to have side-stepped the mention of PEM there (so maybe Holgate wrote that one – icebergs again…) But no need for dismay. Higher up on the page is this: all patients will need to have post-exertional malaise to be present. That wasn’t on the previous site but it’s definitely on this one. I’ve taken a screenshot as evidence in case they change their minds. It’s heartening to see it there. The patient advisory group needs to ensure it’s enforced.

pem-mega-q-a-dec2016.jpg
 
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