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Mycoplasmas - Stealth Pathogens

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,461
Location
Great Lakes
Once I watched the video that I posted in this thread:
I started to wonder if Mycoplasmas are not somewhere in the mix of issues we are having. I have since found this post from another website:

Mycotoxins & Mycoplasmas ~ Stealth Pathogens ~ causing disease and arthritis

It notes:
Mycoplasmas however, do not have a cell wall, and like a tiny jellyfish with a pliable membrane, can take on many different shapes which make them difficult to identify, even under a high powered electron microscope. Mycoplasmas can also be very hard to culture in the laboratory and are often missed as pathogenic causes of diseases for this reason.

It's an old article so hopefully PCR would detect them now. I know Dr Davis talked about not finding viral DNA but I wonder if he has looked for mycoplasmas.

It also said:
Mycoplasmas, unlike viruses, can grow in tissue fluids (blood, joint, heart, chest and spinal fluids) and can grow inside any living tissue cell without killing the cells, as most normal bacteria and viruses will do. Mycoplasmas are frequently found in the oral and genito-urinary tracts of normal healthy people and are found to infect females four times more often than males, which just happens to be the same incidence rate in rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and other related disorders.

As to what these mycoplasmas can affect:
This single stealth pathogen has been discovered in the urogenital tract of patients suffering from inflammatory pelvic disease, urethritis, and other urinary tract diseases (8) It has been discovered in the heart tissues and fluid of patients suffering from cardititis, pericarditis, tachycardia, hemolytic anemia, and other coronary heart diseases.(9, 10, 14) It has been found in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with meningitis and encephalitis, seizures, ALS, Alzheimer's and other central nervous system infections, diseases and disorders.(11-13) It has even been found regularly in the bone marrow of children with leukemia.(16- 18) It is amazing that one single tiny bacteria can be the cause of so many seemingly unrelated diseases in humans. But as with all mycoplasma species, the disease is directly related to where the mycoplasma resides in the body and which cells in the body it attaches to or invades.

The original post I referenced above talked about weaponized ticks and the video I found based on some of those posts talks about weaponized mycoplamas especially one patented by a Chinese doctor called Mycoplasma Fermentans which is very resistant to treatment and which the poster of the video noted is found in a high percentage of those they tested with ALS, GWS and CFS.

Here's another article I found on the resistance of these diseases to treatment but I just skimmed it because it's long (like this post--Sorry) and very scientific sounding so my mind is not absorbing at the moment.

Even though these are fungi-like and similar to mycotoxins I don't think mycotoxins are the same as mycoplasmas. I've read that some here are affected by mycotoxins. I do think they factor in but wondered now about mycoplamas because we don't hear as much about those.

So has anyone here been tested and treated for any Mycoplama infections? What was prescribed and how successful was that for you?
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,684
Location
Alberta
I don't know enough to rule it out completely, but I think it's highly unlikely to be part of the core cause of ME. I could see it being a trigger for ME for some people, just as any other immune activation event.
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,461
Location
Great Lakes
I still can't give up the idea that some type of stealthy pathogen is at work here and that we just don't have the technology to detect it especially not with standard doctor's office testing.
 

Archie

Senior Member
Messages
168
Not testet for myco , but i buyed some amazon rainforest herbs and taked them just in case , i had history of getting lung issues after flu, i suspected it might be mycoplasma

Rainforest Pharmacy sells traditional herbs from Amazon area, myco is for mycoplasma

https://www.rainpharm.com/amazon-formulas/myco/amazon-myco-120-vegetarian-capsules-650-mg.html

Raintree nutrition was the company what made/sell and harvested the knowledge , but they stopped selling and wanted to give all the knowledge , new companys started then making / selling them , Rainforest Pharmacy is good one i think .

So i prescribed Myco to myself. Amazon A-V is antiviral formula .
 
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12
Mycoplasma is a very small bacteria that behaves like a parasite. In size it is bigger than a virus but smaller than a normal bacteria. Only the mycoplasma fermentans incognitus is ever being weaponised.

The inventor said somewhere that all deseases that very clearly increased after WO2 is probably caused by mycoplasma fermentans incognitus. Can't remember where I have read that, sorry.

mycoplasma, the linking pathogen in neurosystemic diseases, biblioteca pleyades
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_virus01.htm

us army mycoplasma fermentans incognitus patent, read it and weep 1
http://www.rense.com/general7/wps.htm

us army mycoplasma fermentans incognitus patent, read it and weep 2
http://www.rense.com/general7/wps2.htm
 

ScottTriGuy

Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.
Messages
1,402
Location
Toronto, Canada
I still can't give up the idea that some type of stealthy pathogen is at work here and that we just don't have the technology to detect it especially not with standard doctor's office testing.

I concur, our understanding of the human body is embryonic - we cannot discard a frequent cause of disease.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
There's nothing mysterious about mycoplasma infection, studies find it in 60% of ME/CFS patients, and Dr Lerner would treating using doxycycline for a few months.1

Mycoplasma infection is not considered a cause of ME/CFS, but it may worsen ME/CFS symptoms.
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,461
Location
Great Lakes
Wow, @Peterz. That document is scary. I wanted to quote some parts of it here: This is what you were saying, I think:

Despite reporting flaws, there has clearly been an increased incidence of all the neuro/systemic degenerative diseases since World War II and especially since the 1970s with the arrival of previously unheard-of diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome and AIDS.

And this:
Brucella is a disease agent that doesn’t kill people; it disables them. But, according to Dr Donald MacArthur of the Pentagon, appearing before a congressional committee in 1969,4 researchers found that if they had mycoplasma at a certain strength --actually, 10 to the 10th power - it would develop into AIDS, and the person would die from it within a reasonable period of time because it could bypass the natural human defenses. If the strength was 10 to the 8th power, the person would manifest with chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia. If it was 10 to the 7th power, they would present as wasting; they wouldn’t die and they wouldn’t be disabled, but they would not be very interested in life; they would waste away.

Just to be clear the article seems to be talking exclusively about Mycoplasma Fermentans Incognitus Strain developed from the brucella bacteria.

Dr Maurice Hilleman, chief virologist for the pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp & Dohme, stated that this disease agent is now carried by everybody in North America and possibly most people throughout the world.

The article went on to say:
Once the mycoplasma gets into the cell, it can lie there doing nothing sometimes for 10, 20 or 30 years, but if a trauma occurs like an accident or a vaccination that doesn’t take, the mycoplasma can become triggered.

Oops, one more from the scientist who patented this bacteria:
According to Dr Shyh-Ching Lo, senior researcher at The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and one of America’s top mycoplasma researchers, this disease agent causes many illnesses including,

AIDS
cancer
chronic fatigue syndrome
Crohn’s colitis
Type I diabetes
multiple sclerosis
Parkinson’s disease
Wegener’s disease
collagen-vascular diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimer’s
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
@Judee, @Peterz, the Nexus Magazine you are quoting from is an Australian magazine about UFO stories and conspiracy theories. In other words, it's a magazine that does not publish science, but fabricated nonsense. Rense.com is also a conspiracy theory/pseudoscience website.

It's important to use reliable sources, not Mickey Mouse publications when you present an argument.
 
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Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,461
Location
Great Lakes
Thank you, @Hip. I'm not in Australia so I'm not familiar with this publication.

I will say though that the study that you linked to has Dr Garth Nicolson as one of the authors and in the video I posted above, he talks much about the same topic and says some of the same things that this publication did.

So what does that mean? On the one hand we have a "Mickey Mouse" publication saying some things and (I think and possibly you think) a credible researcher saying some similar things (though not all).

(By the way, I do not believe in UFO's. I do believe in some conspiracy theories but I have my limits on those as well.)

I just think we really do know so little about the human body (embryonic as @ScottTriGuy says) that to me for anyone to state unequivocally that X is true or Y is not true in regards to the body, medical science, and especially these types of diseases is not doing a completely wise thing.

Let's face it. We still do not have the answers we need about the origins of this disease. Yes, there are studies and theories but still the final verdict is not in.

Also when I read the study you quoted I don't see where they concluded anything about it being or not being a cause of these diseases so can you show me where you found the study where it says:

Mycoplasma infection is not considered a cause of ME/CFS, but it may worsen ME/CFS symptoms.
 
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12
Prof. Garth Nicolson's hypothesis is straightforward: "The emergence of new illnesses and an increase in the incidence rate of previously described signs & symptoms are due to our toxic environment & the purposeful development & testing of Weapons of Mass Destruction." Dr. Nicolson heads the Institute for Molecular Medicine. He spoke at the 9th Common Cause Medical Research Foundation Conference, Sudbury, Ontario, Canada on Aug. 29-31, 2008.

 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Let's face it. We still do not have the answers we need about the origins of this disease.

We don't know the origin of many diseases, including Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, cancers, diabetes, etc, etc.

Personally I subscribe to the views of Prof Paul Ewald, who posits that most diseases of currently etiology will likely turn out to be cause by infectious pathogens.

Nature creates many nasty pathogens, and we know that there are a whole host of classic infectious diseases are caused by these pathogens, there is no dispute about that. We know for example that tuberculosis (or consumption as it used to be called in historical times) is caused by the intracellular pathogen Mycobacterium tuberculosis, for example. You catch this bacterium, and within a few years you are dead. That's a classic infectious disease.

But Ewald is saying that even diseases like Parkinson's which we do not normally consider classic infectious diseases may also be caused by pathogens, it's just that the pathogen takes longer to create the disease. Interestingly enough, recently a new study associated Parkinson's with a neuronal intracellular infection of non-cytolytic enterovirus — the same intracellular infection found in ME/CFS.

However, it's just idle speculation to suggest that the pathogens causing these diseases are man made. There's no evidence for it. These sort of stories sell Mickey Mouse magazines to the sector of the public who have an appetite for UFO stories, conspiracy theories and pseudoscience. They are click-bait stories.

In summary: by all means let's discuss the potential role that Mycobacterium species may have in causing disease. But let's stick to reputable sources please.



can you show me where you found the study where it says

Mycoplasma infection is not considered a cause of ME/CFS, but it may worsen ME/CFS symptoms.

That knowledge just comes from reading these forums daily for 10 years. I've yet to come across a case of ME/CFS linked to the species Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Mycoplasma fermentans, Mycoplasma hominis or Mycoplasma penetrans where the doctor considered that as the primary cause of the ME/CFS, or a case where patients with an active Mycoplasma infection (high antibody levels) were substantially improved by long-term antibiotics (Mycoplasma is killed by antibiotics).

I've also never come across a case of ME/CFS being triggered after an acute infection with these Mycoplasma species.

You can search these forums yourself, and see if you can find a patient whose ME/CFS was due to Mycoplasma.


If you are looking for intracellular bacterial infections which are thought to cause ME/CFS, then Chlamydia pneumoniae is the main one.
 
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12
Role of bioengineering in CFS, GWS & AIDS
http://www.hetalternatief.org/MazlenScott.htm


Some parts of it.......

Don Scott
Yes, they did. Brucellosis was a disease known for thousands of years actually, but in 1942 Canada, the United States and Great Britain entered into a secret agreement to take the brucellosis bacteria and make it more contagious and more virulent and to weaponize it, make it such that it would do serious damage to an enemy and they came up with a variant which they had tested in a number of places in Canada, the United States and Britain as well as other countries and they had indeed weaponized brucellosis. And when Iraq was at war with Iran, and Iraq wanted biological weapons to use against Iran who was winning that war, the United States shipped a supply of brucella melitensis bio type I and bio type III from the American type culture collection in Rockville, Maryland. They shipped that to Iraq and said, here you go, let this stuff out over Iran, it won't kill all the civilians that you're targeting, but it will produce a disease known as chronic fatigue as well as several other serious symptoms. So, in the Riegle report, lo and behold, that our research was confirmed. Brucella melitensis was shipped to Iraq from the United States and that evidence is found on page 41 of the Riegle report.

Dr. Mazlen
Now, just a quick aside. It's labeled as a class 3 pathogen. I presume that means it's fairly detrimental.

Don Scott
Yes, that means it's disabling but not deadly.

Dr. Mazlen
OK, for the audience so that they get an idea of how they classify these things.

Don Scott
Yes, well Donald Riegle spelled it out on page 38 of his report when he said, brucella melitensis is bacteria which can cause chronic fatigue, loss of appetite, profuse sweating when at rest, pain in joints and muscles, insomnia, nausea and damage to major organs which includes the heart, the liver and so on. Now, not only are you describing Chronic Fatigue Syndrome with that description, you're also describing Gulf War Illness. In other words, Suddam Hussein used the brucella melitensis that had been shipped to him against the Desert Storm forces in the Desert Storm attack of 1991.

http://www.hetalternatief.org/MazlenScott.htm
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,461
Location
Great Lakes
I like many of your points especially in terms of what Prof. Ewald said and agree with just about everything you said however...

I've yet to come across a case of ME/CFS linked to the species Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Mycoplasma fermentans, Mycoplasma hominis or Mycoplasma penetrans where the doctor considered that as the primary cause of the ME/CFS, or a case where patients with an active Mycoplasma infection (high antibody levels) were substantially improved by long-term antibiotics (Mycoplasma is killed by antibiotics).

...kinda backs up what I was saying about normal doctor office type testing not even looking for things like this so realistically how many people over the 10 years that you've been reading posts, have actually been tested for anything other than maybe M. Pneumoniae? Have you been? Are those test even available to us in anything other than a research setting?

When I asked my new doctor to test me for more infections she said, "We already have." I've been tested for 4 (maybe 5) different pathogens in total over a 40 year period but realized it was going to be fruitless to argue this with her.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
A few of the ME/CFS doctors do test for Mycoplasma pneumoniae by antibody testing; these tests are readily available:

LabCorp IgM/IgG
Quest IgM/IgG

According to this paper, ME/CFS patients can have multiple Mycoplasma infections, but one of the infections is always either Mycoplasma pneumoniae or Mycoplasma fermentans.


You can always if you like use empirical testing for such pathogens. Empirical testing is where you take the treatment for the pathogen, and if that treatment makes you feel much better, then it's evidence that you may have the pathogen.

Empirical testing was one of the first things I did when I first developed ME/CFS. There are a number of co-infections that can be present in ME/CFS: Mycoplasma species, Bartonella, Babesia, Brucella, but these are susceptible to antibiotics. So rather than test for all of these, I just took a month course of doxycycline (a pretty safe antibiotic), to see if I felt any better. I didn't.



If you are looking for hard to detect "stealth" pathogens in ME/CFS, you need look no further than chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infection, which is hard to detect except with specialist blood tests (the ARUP Lab micro-neutralization antibody tests used by Dr Chia), but which is found in the muscle, stomach and brain tissues of ME/CFS patients when those tissues are extracted by biopsy (or autopsy in the case of the brain) and directly tested.

If you have not been tested by the ARUP Lab micro-neutralization antibody tests for the enteroviruses coxsackievirus B and echovirus, then you may have missed one of the most important (yet the most stealthy) ME/CFS pathogen.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,320
So has anyone here been tested and treated for any Mycoplama infections? What was prescribed and how successful was that for you?

Tested positive for mycoplasma pneumoniae antibodies several years ago, to which I was prescribed a course of macrolides. Retested after a month and titers remained unchanged, so continued with antibiotics for another two months. With hindsight it seems likely to me I never had an active infection. I learned much later that using antibody levels isn't a very exact indicator for having an active infection and that even healthy people can have large variances.

I had no response to the antibiotic whatsoever, the only thing I noticed was that after around two months I began to feel slightly worse, which was probably the antibiotic taking a toll on my healthy gut bacteria and immune system.

I still can't give up the idea that some type of stealthy pathogen is at work here and that we just don't have the technology to detect it especially not with standard doctor's office testing.

This is very much possible, but we are now living in the best of possible times to have such a pathogen detected. Thanks to the efforts of Ron Davis and his research group, we will soon have results from the severe patient group tested against every type of pathogen known to man, using best available measurement techniques.

Davis has already completed DNA viruses and they have looked for bacterial infections as well (unclear if it's completed yet). At the moment they are testing for fungal, parasite and RNA viral infections, which has turned out to be a harder task. Anyway, I reckon they would have found a common bacterial infection like mycoplasma by now if it was really more present in the severe patient group than in controls. But in any case, we are probably a lot clearer on this in a year or so.
 

stridor

Senior Member
Messages
873
Location
Powassan, Ontario
I tested positive for DNA of mycoplasma and HHV-6 to which my doctor said, ¨No wonder you feel like shit¨. But with a Chinese accent...funnier when he said it.....
I did 24 hydrogen peroxide by IV, ¨Just to get it on the ropes¨. And 8 months of doxycycline, after which I tested negative for both pathogens. The body was apparently able to put the virus back into remission.