My success story. Tons of biotin.

[calsi]

do you guys have studies on biotin that may help show why it would be helpful? thanks

 

[BiotinJunkie]

Have you ever tried Taurine?

Probably not, but it feels like something familiar...

I just checked my logs and noticed that I have bought Taurine four months ago but forgot it to try.

 

[BiotinJunkie]

do you guys have studies on biotin that may help show why it would be helpful? thanks

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17182796
"Biotin deficiency inhibits heme synthesis and impairs mitochondria in human lung fibroblasts"
Just googled it with "Krebs cycle biotin" request.

And the link from pubmed page that mentioned above:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26343941
"Biotin deprivation impairs mitochondrial structure and function and has implications for inherited metabolic disorders."

 

[gregh286]

Interesting.
How long after you stop taking biotin do you start to crash with no energy.
Is such high doses safe long.term.

 

[Learner1]

Anyone know what might be depleting biotin in the first place, assuming its not a genetic issue?

 

[BiotinJunkie]

Interesting.
How long after you stop taking biotin do you start to crash with no energy.

I would start to feel very unpleasant cognitive and mood decline in less than one day.

 

[enna]

Did you start to see an improvement of your symptoms from the beginning of the supplementation? Did you "only" had a cognitive fatigue or in the whole body (muscles)? I have a deficiency but did not recognice a improvemnt with 10mg a day... I think of trying your protocol, but it is very expencive... thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

[BiotinJunkie]

Did you start to see an improvement of your symptoms from the beginning of the supplementation? Did you "only" had a cognitive fatigue or in the whole body (muscles)?

I did start to see an improvement of my symptoms from the first 10 mg capsule taken under the tongue (but not from the first eaten).
I did only had a cognitive fatigue.

I did forget to mention. Large amounts of Slippery Elm is not needed for me now (I have cut it gradually to just a 2 capsules after the meal).
And currently I am taking for stomach the standard dosages of 1) "Solgar, Ester-C Plus, Vitamin C, 1000 mg, 90 Tablets"
and 2) "Doctor's Best, Zinc-Carnosine Complex with PepZin Gl, 120 Veggie Caps".
Probably my stomach partially get used to such a high dosages of biotin. Or probably Ester-C helped me to cut Slippery Elm.

 

[BiotinJunkie]

Is such high doses safe long.term.

As far as I have read, currently there are no scientific evidence for serious side effects from very big dosages of biotin (I have read somewhere about rare case where someone eats 300 mg of biotin daily).

 

[Learner1]

Repeat - Anyone know what might be depleting biotin in the first place, assuming its not a genetic issue?

 

[mariovitali]

Liver Disease :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8266019/

 

[Learner1]

Thanks @mariovitali !

I also found these, which might be useful to explore rather than just taking lots of biotin:

1. Medications

Certain medicines may prevent your body from absorbing vitamins correctly. These medications include antibiotics and anti-seizure drugs. Additionally, antibiotics destroy the good bacteria in your gut that can naturally produce biotin.

2. Intestinal problems

Some chronic intestinal conditions may prevent your body from absorbing nutrients from food. These conditions include Crohn’s disease and colitis.

3. Long-term dieting

Strict eating may prevent you from getting a wide variety of vitamins and minerals from the food you eat. Eating a well-balanced diet is vital for your health, and you can still maintain or lose weight if that’s your goal.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Repeat - Anyone know what might be depleting biotin in the first place, assuming its not a genetic issue?

What follows is speculative:

I personally noticed that high B5 foods increase the need for Biotin (e.g. potatoes, avocados, salmon). High Lysine/Beta-Alanine foods increase the need for Biotin (e.g. animal protein). Interestingly Taurine seems to help. Perhaps Biotin indirectly helps bile acid synthesis by competing with B5 for uptake/transport, and by using up some lysine. B5, Beta-Alanine and Lysine disturb bile acid production.

 

[Eastman]

What follows is speculative:

I personally noticed that high B5 foods increase the need for Biotin (e.g. potatoes, avocados, salmon). High Lysine/Beta-Alanine foods increase the need for Biotin (e.g. animal protein). Interestingly Taurine seems to help. Perhaps Biotin indirectly helps bile acid synthesis by competing with B5 for uptake/transport, and by using up some lysine. B5, Beta-Alanine and Lysine disturb bile acid production.

I found these on B5 competition with biotin for uptake:

Biotin uptake by human colonic epithelial NCM460 cells: a carrier-mediated process shared with pantothenic acid

High specificity in response of the sodium-dependent multivitamin transporter to derivatives of pantothenic acid

 

[Gondwanaland]

I found these on B5 competition with biotin for uptake:

Biotin uptake by human colonic epithelial NCM460 cells: a carrier-mediated process shared with pantothenic acid

High specificity in response of the sodium-dependent multivitamin transporter to derivatives of pantothenic acid

I forgot to highlight that it is an established fact that B5, Lysine and Beta-Alanine do antagonize bile acid synthesis.

 

[pamojja]

I forgot to highlight that it is an established fact that B5, Lysine and Beta-Alanine do antagonize bile acid synthesis.

I do supplement with 6g lysine, 2g beta-alanine and 2g B5 daily. Must be really dumb that I don't feel any adverse effects from antagonism to bile acid synthesis.. Also get almost 70% of my calorie-intake from fats, healthy fats.

 

[Gondwanaland]

70% of my calorie-intake from fats, healthy fats.

This surely changes the game. I get great bile flow from just eating sat animal fat.

 

[Eastman]

The Linus Pauling Institute gives the following causes of biotin deficiency:

• Prolonged intravenous feeding (parenteral) without biotin supplementation
• Infants fed an elemental formula devoid of biotin
• Consumption of raw egg white for a prolonged period

It also mentions the following as risk factors:

• Smoking
• Pregnancy
• Liver disease
• Anticonvulsant medications

 

[Eastman]

I just found this:

Consumption of a low-carbohydrate and high-fat diet (the ketogenic diet) exaggerates biotin deficiency in mice

Abstract
Objective
Biotin is a water-soluble vitamin that acts as a cofactor for several carboxylases. The ketogenic diet, a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet, is used to treat drug-resistant epilepsy and promote weight loss. In Japan, the infant version of the ketogenic diet is known as the “ketone formula.” However, as the special infant formulas used in Japan, including the ketone formula, do not contain sufficient amounts of biotin, biotin deficiency can develop in infants who consume the ketone formula. Therefore, the aim of this study was to evaluate the effects of the ketogenic diet on biotin status in mice.

Methods
Male mice (N = 32) were divided into the following groups: control diet group, biotin-deficient (BD) diet group, ketogenic control diet group, and ketogenic biotin-deficient (KBD) diet group. Eight mice were used in each group.

Results
At 9 wk, the typical symptoms of biotin deficiency such as hair loss and dermatitis had only developed in the KBD diet group. The total protein expression level of biotin-dependent carboxylases and the total tissue biotin content were significantly decreased in the KBD and BD diet groups. However, these changes were more severe in the KBD diet group.

Conclusion
These findings demonstrated that the ketogenic diet increases biotin bioavailability and consumption, and hence, promotes energy production by gluconeogenesis and branched-chain amino acid metabolism, which results in exaggerated biotin deficiency in biotin-deficient mice. Therefore, biotin supplementation is important for mice that consume the ketogenic diet. It is suggested that individuals that consume the ketogenic diet have an increased biotin requirement.

Perhaps this has something to do with why OP said he felt better with carbohydrates.

 

[BadBadBear]

Good find, @Eastman! Every time I try keto, I lose a ton of my hair! I was hoping to try a few weeks of Keto in January as I have been trying to slowly lose some weight without over stressing my body, I made myself a note to add biotin! Wonder if biotin deficiency is part of why I feel so bad on keto?