My Healing Log

[fishboy9320]

I want to document my process of healing from fatigue and pain using some things I have researched and picked out myself. All of these are injections by the way as I suffer from very bad gut issues.
For immune system and metabolism.:

Zinc and Iron (Doses Within Western RDA)

Vitamin C 300mg Daily (would opt for more)

Vitamin B2 1000mg (Dose is a little too much but it is all I could find if I could pick the dose myself it would probably be way lower but it doesn't matter as it is water soluble)

Vitamin B5 is 50mg

Vitamin b12 1mg+ daily.

Vitamin E and A but unfortunately in very low doses I will be using Cortexin which has lots of vitamins, minerals and amino acids and the two I aforementioned. Luckily they are fat soluble though so hopefully it builds up in my body easily. It also has the important minerals Copper, Cobalt, Manganese,
And many electrolyte elements.

Magnesium and vitamin D I will try it out see how I feel.

COQ10/ubiquinone instead of ATP injections as ATP has very short half life and COQ10 has like 30+ hours. Also COQ10 is superior to Ubiquinol as COQ10 alone has functions that differ from Ubiquinol and also if Ubiquinol is supplemented the absorption rate and conversion becomes lower.

thyroid gland extract (count as Iodine).

Any suggestions welcomed. I am mainly looking for things that boost Energy function like Carnitine etc and the mitochondria. Semi-Natural meaning your body has to have it naturally or a byproduct like an extract of a organ to make it work better like in the case of thyroid extract. It is possible to heal depending on what causes it in my case nutrition deficiency. Can you use Vitamin C IM OR SUBQ or will it die too quickly that way? If not prepared for those routes? How would you do that? Is it sensitive? etc it hurts more the unhealthier the person is and gets better with each time. as you grow healthier. etc not more dosage but more liquid more pain etc vitamin c hurts the most.

 

[Wishful]

thyroid gland extract (count as Iodine).

No, don't count it as precisely iodine. Supplemental iodine had a major effect on my ME symptoms. It gave me temporary remission the first couple of times. T2 (3-5 diiodothyronine) had the same effect, so I assume the iodine (taken as tincture) boosted my own T2 production. However, supplemental T4 and desiccated pig thyroid had no noticeable effect on my ME symptoms, so neither counted as iodine intake. Logically they should have gotten recycled and ended up boosting T2 levels, but maybe they just got recycled to T4 and T3, and any extra T2 was cancelled by the extra T4 and T3 suppressing T2 production.

 

[jaybee00]

This stuff won’t “heal” MECFS. There is no FDA approved treatment for MECFS.

 

[Wishful]

This stuff won’t “heal” MECFS. There is no FDA approved treatment for MECFS.

I think that "Won't" is too strong a term to use. There's no reliable 'works for everyone' treatment, but it's not impossible for one of the things fishboy is trying to successfully treat one or more of his ME symptoms. I managed to find several treatments that worked reliably for me, and two of them managed to (so far) permanently cure two symptoms. So, I suggest against telling people that a treatment is guaranteed to not work, because maybe it will work for at least one specific person. If something has a very low chance of working, but is also very low cost (price, risks, hassles), why not try it? If it's got really loud marketing but no real scientific support and is expensive, my recommendation is to do extra research into the risks vs benefits.

I also recommend paying attention to whether something is actually making a difference. Try the treatment for a reasonable time period, then try going without it. If there's no noticeable change either way, there's no need to buy more. Only one of my treatments took longer than 2 days to show their effects (one took 5 days).

There are all sorts of claims of benefits from taking <whatever>, but if you check the science behind them, you'll probably find that the marketing claims are way overblown or completely inapplicable. Most of the claims are for people without ME, and thus lack any credibility for how effective they are for people with ME.

 

[fishboy9320]

So a little update: Neither b2 or b5 works alone but in combination they work for me. And the more different B vitamins I add the more energy I feel. Also B vitamins need something like ubiquinone for ATP or sodium (also for ATP) to work properly by the body. Or thyroid hormones. These all increase metabolism and energy so that it can go throughout the body and be used. And vitamin C as they are all important in mitochondria function.

 

[mitoMAN]

Did you try the cortexin yet?

 

[fishboy9320]

Did you try the cortexin yet?

No I ordered Actovegin instead it has similar ingredients and more currently waiting. Theres also something else called ALFLUTOP im looking at .

The drug Actovegin is a combination of various physiologically active ingredients:

• Amino acids, e.g. ornithine, leucine, alanine, glutamate, proline, glycine, taurine, etc; Of the amino acids determined, alanine, glutamic acid, lysine, and valine were present in the plasma in the highest amounts on all three levels of protein fed, 31 to 50Mgper milliliter of plasma (table 4) ; glycine, methionine, and as- partic acid were present in the lowest amounts, 8 to 16pg per milliliter; and the ...
• Oligopeptides;
• Lipids;
• Oligosaccharides;
• Nucleosides, e.g. adenosine, uridine;
• Antioxidants;
• Electrolytes, e.g. Na, Cl, K, Mg, Ca, F, Fe;
• Microelements, e.g. Cu, Si, Se, Zn.

vs

Cortexin composition

Amino acids: Aspartic acid – 446 nmol/mg; Glycine – 298 nmol/mg; Threonine – 212 nmol/mg; Serine – 268 nmol/mg; Glutamic acid – 581 nmol/mg; Proline – 187 nmol/mg; Alanine – 246 nmol/mg; Isoleucine – 356 nmol/mg; Tyrosine – 109 nmol/mg; Phenylalanine – 162 nmol/mg; Histidine – 116 nmol/mg; Lysine – 253 nmol/mg; Arginine and other amino acids – 202 nmol/mg.

Vitamins: Lysine – 253 nmol/mg; Thiamine (Vitamin B1) – 0.08 mcg/10mg; Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) – 0.03 mcg/10 mg; Niacin (Vitamin B3, Vitamin PP) – 0.05 mcg/10 mg; Retinol (Vitamin A) – 0.011 mcg/10mg; Alfa-tokoferol (vitamin E) – 0.007 mcg/10mg.

Minerals: (Cu) – 0.2129 mcg/10 mg; (Fe) – 2.26 mcg/10 mg; (Ca) – 22.93 mcg/10 mg; (Mg) – 8.5 mcg/10 mg; (K) – 19.83 mcg/10 mg; (Na) – 643.2 mcg/10 mg; (S) – 152.65 mcg/10 mg; (P) – 91.95 mcg/10 mg; (Zn) – 4.73 mcg/10 mg; (Mb) – 0.0203 mcg/10 mg; (Co) – 0.0044 mcg/10 mg; (Mn) – 0.0061 mcg/10 mg; (Se) – 0.0745 mcg/10 mg; (Al) – 0.3104 mcg/10 mg; (Li) – 0,0340 mcg/10 mg.

vs

Description: Each 1ml ampule of Alflutop contains 10 mg sea fish bioactive concentrate (amino acids, low molecular mass peptides, mucopolysaccharides, trace elements: Na, K, Ca, Mg, Fe, Cu, Zn), and maximum 5mg/100ml phenol as preservative.

 

[fishboy9320]

found a better one: Cerebrolysin has all the amino acids which compose the central nervous system. 75% free amino acids(Asp, Glu, Ser, His, Gly, Thr, Ala, Arg, Val, Met, Trp, Ile, Phe, Leu, Lys, Pro)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cerebrolysin/comments/t6owry https://www.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/t70ul0 https://www.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/t9lqyg

 

[mitoMAN]

found a better one: Cerebrolysin has all the amino acids which compose the central nervous system. 75% free amino acids(Asp, Glu, Ser, His, Gly, Thr, Ala, Arg, Val, Met, Trp, Ile, Phe, Leu, Lys, Pro)

Well there is discussion whether the improved version Cortexin is superior to Cerebrolysin.
Sadly both is currently hard to source in Europe - otherwise I would jump right into it.

See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8279368/
Neuroprotective action of Cortexin, Cerebrolysin and Actovegin in acute or chronic brain ischemia in rats


5 Conclusions
Cortexin® (1 or 3 mg/kg) as well as Cerebrolysin® (538 or 1614 mg/kg) were comparable effective in models acute and chronic brain ischemia in rats. Cortexin® contains compounds acting on AMPA, kainate, mGluR1, GABAA1 and mGluR5 receptors in vitro, and readily crosses the blood-brain barrier in mice.

 

[fishboy9320]

There is this document I found I can't seem to translate it but I think it states all the amino acids and their dose in cerebrolysin. Cortexin may perform the same but that could be because of the other ingredients not related to the amino acids but did that study use a very high dose?. I am mainly interested in the amino acids. Cosmicnootropic states cerebrolysin has all the amino acids which compose the cns. But this PDF only shows 16 out of the 22 or something. Unless amino acids exists outside the CNS? https://northamptonintegrativemedic...2019/05/Cerebrolysin-Monograph-Complete-1.pdf But it stills has all the essential amino acids. The question is how much? How much of each amino acids are we getting in say 2ml of cerebrolysin? 2ml is claimed by one study or site to contain around 300mg cerebrolysin. But the official site says One ml contains 215.2 mg of Cerebrolysin. Because the body needs a lot daily and not getting enough can slow the progress of anything. But how much protein is in that? I think each 10ml ampoule of cerebroylsin has around 30 gram of it inside.

and 1.076 g to 4.3 g cerebrolysin (between 5 to 20 mL ampoules)

And another study said the manufacturer makes sure it is 85% of amino acids and another said 60% free amino acids and a third one said 75%. Unless some amino acids are less or more ''free'' than others, no idea what that means because I am just a casual. I also winder if ALFLUTOP or Actovegin contains any of the essential fatty acids omega 3 or 6. And Cellex

Here is the PDF if you can translate it. Won't even let me copy the text.

 

[mitoMAN]

I think you don't understand that these amino acids form a complex peptide bond and have nothing to do with "regular amino acid intake".
Cerebrolysin is a peptide complex derived from pig brain.
That's why it has many of those occurring in our own brains.
Maybe this helps you understand:

Structure:
Active substance: 1 ml consists of 215.2 mg of Cerebrolysin concentrate (complex of peptides derived from the pig brain tissue) in aqueous solution. The active fraction of Cerebrolysin is represented by peptides, whose molecular weight does not exceed 10,000 daltons.
Excipients: sodium hydroxide and water for injection.

Pharmacodynamics:
Cerebrolysin contains low molecular weight biologically active neuropeptides that penetrate the BBB (blood-brain barrier) and directly enter the nerve cells. The drug has an organ-specific multimodal effect on the brain, i.e., provides metabolic regulation, neuroprotection, functional neuromodulation and neurotrophic activity

 

[mitoMAN]

Maybe this will help understand further:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptide

again this is nothing like unbound amino acids from food or supplements. That's important to understand.
The unique bond makes them an active peptide.

so actually the total weight of amino acids has no importance here. As you can't compare different peptide compositions by weight.

 

[fishboy9320]

Oh I see I knew amino acids bond together and form proteins (and peptides as I learned just now) already and form whatever it need in the body. But I didn't know cerebrolysin was only a extract of amino acids. I thought the amino acids came with it and the real extract was something else.

Aren't the amino acids in food bound together forming proteins? Can't the peptides and proteins from cerebrolysin unbind and separate to become their own single amino acid to convert into other non essential amino acids in the body and be used if needed? And does the cerebrolysin only work on the brain or systemic effect ? Idk. My goal was to get all the essential amino acids from cerebrolysin in good amounts (near RDA), is that possible? would Actovegin and cortexin be an better option for what im trying to do? sometimes same substances injection one hurts the other doesnt depends on other factor dose, fillers etc how made how activated

when it is active it is an peptide but when it is inactive it is protein or free amino acid ? so what if the amino acids in food somehow structure together and become an active peptide similar to one in the body? Or would that be impossible because theres too much proteins in food and much less is used to structure a peptide

 

[fishboy9320]

oh so the 75% free amino acids means these ones are single and can be used for whatever, right? im so slow, i really need it as you see. RE https://northamptonintegrativemedic...2019/05/Cerebrolysin-Monograph-Complete-1.pdf that was what I was wondering the weight/dose was. I assume they (free amino acids) are like multiple ten's of milligrams each etc based on the cerebrolysin dose. Actovegin may be the best as it has the highest dosage at 40mg per ML up to 5 ml. Which means more amino acids, but then again cerebrolysin is standardized to contain at least 80% of amino acids free.

 

[mitoMAN]

Aren't the amino acids in food bound together forming proteins? Can't the peptides and proteins from cerebrolysin unbind and separate to become their own single amino acid to convert into other non essential amino acids in the body and be used if needed?

No. Amino acids cant bind and unbind on their own.

And does the cerebrolysin only work on the brain or systemic effect ?

Cebrerolysin has effects that work systemic.
See:
Peripheral Neuropathy Due to Cerebrolysin’s neurogenic properties, its application as a treatment for peripheral neuropathy has been hypothesized. One study, which specifically looked at diabetic peripheral neuropathy, was performed in which mice were given a diet that resulted in type-2 diabetes. These diabetic mice were treated with Cerebrolysin for 10 days. After treatment, it was found that the number, diameter and area of the diabetic mice's’ myelinated nerve fibers increased in the sciatic nerve. The mice were also subject to a series of tests that indicated presence and severity of peripheral neuropathy. The mice treated with Cerebrolysin outperformed the untreated mice in all measures. These results indicate Cerebrolysin could be a powerful treatment to counter the effects of diabetic peripheral neuropathy. A separate study found that administration of Cerebrolysin in rats significantly increased the number of myelinated axons as well as the thickness and diameter of the myelin sheaths.7 This finding illuminates potential use for Cerebrolysin as treatment for MS. It also has some effects on pain and neuropathy in non-diabetic pathologies. A study was performed that shows a potential application for treatment of mechanical allodynia. Mechanical allodynia was induced in the back paw of a sample of rats. The metric used was the speed at which the rat withdrew its paw after stimulation. The results indicated that the reduction in withdrawal time resulting from induce mechanical allodynia was significantly ameliorated after Cerebrolysin treatment. While more studies need to be performed, these results illuminate the potential for Cerebrolysin’s application to treating pain caused by peripheral nerve disease.

Idk. My goal was to get all the essential amino acids from cerebrolysin in good amounts (near RDA), is that possible? would Actovegin and cortexin be an better option for what im trying to do?

Neither of these options provide high amounts of free amino acids. You better buy them seperate.
You are a bit confused it seems. Free amino acids within these Peptide Complexes have no imporant effect.
It is purely the peptide bonds of these complexes that have the pharmacological activity.