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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Yes, I would really like to see blinded samples of patients and healthy controls sent to the Acumen people to see if they can correctly discriminate between the two just to make sure there's not some hidden little detail that Acumen does that Karl Morten's group isn't aware of that actually makes the Acumen test work right and be valid. The Acumen people should be making that offer if they stand behind their test.At this point I am not sure, but it does place a question mark over the Acumen Lab test.
Why does the Tomas Paper fail to replicate our findings?
Dr Norman Booth suggested that before the Tomas group proceeded with their test, they should do paired samples to compare with the Acumen test. The idea was that Dr Myhill would take blood from one patient and send samples to both laboratories to be tested on the next day. Dr Myhill offered to fund the cost of such a comparison. This offer was never taken up. What this means is that we can have little confidence in the ability of the Tomas group to replicate the Acumen test.
Just for everyone's reference, the mitochondria dysfunction ME/CFS patient subtypes that Myhill et al discovered are these:
ME/CFS Patient Mitochondria Dysfunction Subtype Groups:
Group A Patients — oxidative phosphorylation running normally. Group A then divides into two subgroups:
Group B Patients ('HI Blk') — oxidative phosphorylation partially blocked and running at low efficiency.
- Group A1 Patients ('no HIs') — These are Group A patients who have normal or sub-normal TL IN values (and 87% of these patients also have sub-normal TL OUT values).
- Group A2 Patients ('HI TL IN') — Group A patients who have super-normal TL IN value.
- All of the Group B patients were found have sub-normal TL IN values (ie, they have reduced translocator protein transfer of ATP from mitochondria to the cytosol of the cell). And 78% of the Group B patients have sub-normal values of TL OUT (decreased translocator protein ferrying of ADP from the cell to the mitochondria).
Group A patients try to compensate for the mitochondrial ATP shortage by increasing glycolysis to make ATP.
Group B patients try to compensate for the shortfall in mitochondrial ATP most likely by using the adenylate kinase reaction to make ATP.
Does TL refer to the translocator protein transfer of ATP from mitochondria to the cytosol of the cell?
The Lactic Acid Build-Up Problem in PEM
PEM is compounded and exacerbated by the problem of lactic acid build-up in the muscles, in ME/CFS patients who rely on anaerobic glycolysis to make up for the shortfall of energy (a shortfall originally resulting from dysfunctional mitochondria). This because anaerobic glycolysis produces lactic acid as a by-product.
This lactic acid build-up then further compounds the energy shortage problem of PEM, because to clear lactic acid by converting it back to glucose, it requires considerably more energy than was originally gained from the conversion of glucose to lactic acid.
Hip, in my process of reading everything, I haven't yet found this. Do problems in ANY of the five energy processes excess high lactic acid? Because the lactic acid issues seems to be mentioned more in (3) Oxidative Phosphorylation.
I'd like to resolve this , I want to know what the safe dose for Pyrucet is. It seems like ethyl pyruvate on its own might be more effective and safe than with ethyl acetoacetate but haidut is very willful.It appears I have gotten increased hunger from Pyrucet though too early to tell yet. I do intend to try significantly increased doses soon.
I just had surgery. Been offline for awhile. Reminding myself to try and find that.You got a link to that reddit thread? Any idea the doses he was taking and if it helped long term?
No, I cant find it even searching Google which would have deleted threads, should've archived it. He was unaffiliated w ray peat forum so less biased. Said there used to be gas station energy shot w that that was helpful for cfs.You got a link to that reddit thread? Any idea the doses he was taking and if it helped long term?
Ethyl pyruvate has been on my radar since last year. Someone on reddit (presumably healthy) posted that they took a supplement which had Ethyl pyruvate as the main ingredient and got amazing cognitive improvements from it. Sadly that supplement is no longer available, and the only other sources I can find are research suppliers.
I'd also like to try a non-calcium based source of regular pyruvate (doesn't have to be ethyl), just because whilst I do well with pyruvate, I don't do well with calcium, and all the pyruvate supplements seem to be calcium pyruvate. Pyruvate is one of the few mito boosters that actually does what it says on the tin.
I saw the reddit post haha! they said that there used to be an energy drink with ethyl pyruvate in it. I'm gonna wait and maybe try it with doctor supervision though. Some of these supplements are more mild and have a lot more anecdotal evidence of safety, but I learned my lesson with taking a high dose of pregnenolone.
I do but that doesn't replace having safety data on ethyl acetoacetate. Unfortunately that limits me. Ethyl pyruvate seems safe at high doses in studies, could potentially do 5 g or more , but its combined w this unknown. I wish someone would sell EP on its ownDid you say you tried Haiduts Pyrucet? If not why not try a small dose and titrate up?