Microbiome Permanently Altered by Food Poisoning

[TigerLilea]

I also got severe food poisoning a few months before I got ill.

I'm not sure what it means to have your gut biome "permanently" altered. Your gut is never static and it is always possible to improve it with probiotics, fecal transplants, etc.

Some strains of gut bacteria can be permanently depleted through the use of antibiotics, laxatives, poor eating habits, and from severe diarrhea. And it isn't an easy fix. Fecal transplants are only available for treating C-diff. Supplemental probiotics don't come even close to covering all the different bacterial strains that the human body has. And depending on which country you live in depends on whether you can purchase some of the more powerful proven probiotics (ie Mutaflor).

 

[Rvanson]

Are you saying you had a gastrointestinal illness for a few days after eating a restaurant meal? If so, how do you know it was bacterial food poisoning that made you sick, as opposed to becoming sick from a viral infection you may have picked up?

Well, like I said, I was feeling just fine BEFORE I ate dinner with my friends. About four of five hours later while sleeping, I became VERY ILL, and headed straight to the toilet, where I remained for hours, with vomiting and severe diarrhea. My stomach was in severe pain. I never had any symptoms of CFS/ME before that meal at all, period.

My meal was Teriyaki Chicken with rice and veggies, which no one else ordered. Maybe it was salmonella poisoning. All I know is that I was bedridden for weeks, before I could get out at all and almost a year before I made a partial recovery for 18 years so that I could work again. I didn't have any viral symptoms like a runny nose or the like at all.

I could no longer EVER go back to racing dirt bikes, swimming or snow skiing ever again as my endurance/aerobic tolerance was too far gone for that. My weekends consisted of resting up at home so that I could work the following week again. In 2014 my CFS came back to the point that I cannot work anymore. But I am 20 years older now since I contracted CFS/ME so perhaps my age might have played a part in my relapse.

 

[Forbin]

The severe case of "food poisoning" that I got 18 months prior to ME hit a few hours after eating a hot dog at a college football game.

The only other time I had that kind of intense "food poisoning" event occurred a couple of years later at home, well after the onset of ME. It began a within a couple of hours of eating... a hot dog.

Coincidence, perhaps - but it's not like I ate hot dogs with any great frequency.

The Listeria bacterium is a known source of "food poisoning" in hot dogs and luncheon meats.

Ready-to-eat meats, such as hot dogs, have already been subjected to a pathogen-killing step when the meat is cooked at the factory, so contamination is typically the result of in-plant contamination after that step. Improved sanitation in many plants has reduced the incidence of infection by half since 1986, but the risk persists, as illustrated by a large hot dog-associated outbreak that occurred in 1999.
http://www.about-listeria.com/listeria_prevention/#.WDAM1fnR-Uk

 

[Avocado]

I also got very bad food poisoning 1-2 years before ME. But I think almost everyone experience food poisoning at a moment in their life? It just seems very normal. I felt sick for a week but after that I went to normal.

I dont think it caused my ME because I had some infections/virus and antibiotics before I got ME

 

[tinacarroll27]

I had irritable bowel for years before the ME but can't remember food poisoning before the ME. I put the cause of my ME down to a virus, although I don't think the flu caused it as my symptoms were nothing like the flu(I had trouble breathing and partial muscle paralysis and numbness,within 24 hours of taking ill). I had a massive relapse of ME in 2013 and went from mild to severe and am now stuck in severe for the last 3 years. It was the flu in 2013 but like I said I have had irritable bowel for years. I definitely think the gut plays a major part in this illness!

 

[Rvanson]

I had irritable bowel for years before the ME but can't remember food poisoning before the ME. I put the cause of my ME down to a virus, although I don't think the flu caused it as my symptoms were nothing like the flu(I had trouble breathing and partial muscle paralysis and numbness,within 24 hours of taking ill). I had a massive relapse of ME in 2013 and went from mild to severe and am now stuck in severe for the last 3 years. It was the flu in 2013 but like I said I have had irritable bowel for years. I definitely think the gut plays a major part in this illness!

Yes I suffered from IBS as part of my symptoms of CFS/ME. I still have it but its
not as bad as it once was. I still automatically
find out where the restroom is when I am out.
Its the fatigue, PEM, and lack of recovery that came back in force in 2014, that put me out of work for good. Taking early retirement in 2017.

 

[dangermouse]

This is pretty much what I'm wondering, i.e. if prior changes in the gut might predispose one to develop ME following a "viral trigger." I've seen it said that even the immune response to a respiratory virus can alter the microbiome to a degree. This would be in line with the idea of a "one-two punch" being necessary to initiate ME.

I had a very acute food poisoning which left me very weak. I'd been on holiday and it turned out a lot of people on the flight had come down with it too, not sure if they'd been at same hotel. I had to lie on floor near the door (when I wasn't in the loo) as I was so weak. The staff had to arrange for a wheelchair to be ready and waiting for me on landing.

Then a couple of years afterwards I got a severe infection from our tap water, cryptosporidium, that was awful.

I was never quite myself afterwards but managed to function and work.

Then I got Norovirus whilst working as a nurse. It floored me. I was hit hard. The final straw. Afterwards I was diagnosed with ME (after the tests to rule out other illnesses etc).

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Only just seen this thread. I would echo @Hip comments regarding misdiagnosis with virus, which is notorious with food poisoning cases. With true food poisoning Most symptoms don't present themselves until at least 24 hrs after eating the contaminated food. There are some exceptions to this but the common culprits are often wrongly attributed to the wrong food or meal. This causes environmental health a lot of problems since many patients are convinced it was the last meal they ate (quite naturally). Just thought I would mention it.

I think it's possible that any infection could trigger ME though. I myself noticed fatigue 4 months before I started getting infections...starting on my skin (presumably staph aureus) with poor wound healing. I then had 2 bouts of noravirus 6 months later which then escalated symptoms dramatically. Like a slow rolling down a hill and then falling off a cliff. I think in my case it could have been any infection that took me over the edge: salmonella, crypto, staph, clostridium p. Etc etc. I was so weak that anything would have done it.....just happened to be noravirus.

 

[Mij]

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/food-poisoning/basics/symptoms/con-20031705
Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic Staff

Food poisoning symptoms vary with the source of contamination. Most types of food poisoning cause one or more of the following signs and symptoms:

• Nausea
• Vomiting
• Watery diarrhea
• Abdominal pain and cramps
• Fever

Signs and symptoms may start within hours after eating the contaminated food, or they may begin days or even weeks later. Sickness caused by food poisoning generally lasts from a few hours to several days.

 

[Forbin]

I wouldn't be surprised if the speed of onset of food poisoning symptoms was related to the degree of contamination. A greater degree of initial contamination would probably lead to greater bacterial replication in the gut and speed things up.

Just how bad can contamination get? In my youth, I worked a couple of summers as an usher at a movie theater that was part of a large chain. The refreshment counter sold hot dogs that rolled all day on hot metal tubes.

After the close of business one day, I was in the back room and I saw another employee putting that day's unsold hot dogs back into the refrigerator. I had kind of assumed that they threw out what went unsold each day, but, apparently, I was wrong. I then noticed that the other employee was also picking out a few of the unsold hot dogs and disposing of them.

"How do you know when it's time to throw them away?" I asked. "When they start to turn green," she said. I laughed at first, thinking she was joking, but she wasn't. She showed me one of the "expired" hot dogs. Despite rolling on hot metal tubes for who knows how many days, it had several green patches starting to form on it.

I haven't had a theater hot dog since.

 

[rosie26]

@Forbin I've always been careful buying food because I just can't afford to get food poisoning especially when my ME symptoms cause the awful weakness. I couldn't handle more weakness on top of the ME weakness.

If I get hungry when out I mostly buy something savoury but I remember one time when out I couldn't see anything hot that I liked and chose an apple slice (can't remember exactly what it was ), as I picked some of the slice up with a spoon it fell off and I saw heavy mold on the bottom of the cake. I was really shocked and realized they were holding food over for days obviously.

 

[Mij]

@rosie26 they had an investigative report here on grocery stores and employees recommend buying meat from the back of the shelf, and avoiding pre-marinated or cut foods. They also suggested buying whole cakes, pies and tarts.

When the sell pre-cut cake it means the cake is old and they want to sell it fast. It's the same with ready made meals, the ingredients are close to expiration.

They found mould and toxic bacteria in cakes, they would replace the fruit on top to make the cake appear fresh when it was well past its expiry date. ick

 

[rosie26]

@rosie26 they had an investigative report here on grocery stores and employees recommend buying meat from the back of the shelf, and avoiding pre-marinated or cut foods. They also suggested buying whole cakes, pies and tarts.

When the sell pre-cut cake it means the cake is old and they want to sell it fast. It's the same with ready made meals, the ingredients are close to expiration.

They found mould and toxic bacteria in cakes, they would replace the fruit on top to make the cake appear fresh when it was well past its expiry date. ick

Something I do buy a lot of @Mij is shaved cold ham, roast beef, sometimes smoked beef from the deli at my local supermarket. I buy about 300-400g and put in portion sizes into the freezer. I watch the girls behind the counter like a hawk. A couple of times I have seen them drop some of the meat onto the counter and pick it up and put it into the bag. I told them I didn't want meat that had been dropped on the counter, and that it should be thrown away.

Another occasion they had run out of plastic containers and the girl grabbed the container that was sitting on show on the very top counter, possibly could have been there for months, opened, closed, opened... who knows. I said, I don't want that container, that's a show container, lol.

 

[Mij]

@rosie26 with our weaken immune systems we really have to watch them.

One time I ordered a 'take out' shawarma and the guy who prepared my food was wearing gloves, but never removed them when he handled the cash, so he basically wore the same gloves all day I guess he thought he was practicing good hygiene by wearing the gloves so I explained cross contamination to him. He just shrugged, so I gave him back the sandwich.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

I wouldn't be surprised if the speed of onset of food poisoning symptoms was related to the degree of contamination. A greater degree of initial contamination would probably lead to greater bacterial replication in the gut and speed things up.

Just how bad can contamination get? In my youth, I worked a couple of summers as an usher at a movie theater that was part of a large chain. The refreshment counter sold hot dogs that rolled all day on hot metal tubes.

After the close of business one day, I was in the back room and I saw another employee putting that day's unsold hot dogs back into the refrigerator. I had kind of assumed that they threw out what went unsold each day, but, apparently, I was wrong. I then noticed that the other employee was also picking out a few of the unsold hot dogs and disposing of them.

"How do you know when it's time to throw them away?" I asked. "When they start to turn green," she said. I laughed at first, thinking she was joking, but she wasn't. She showed me one of the "expired" hot dogs. Despite rolling on hot metal tubes for who knows how many days, it had several green patches starting to form on it.

I haven't had a theater hot dog since.

Sounds dodgy to me I tend to avoid street food where fridges and temperature probes tend to be absent.

The speed of onset is mainly dictated by a number of things to:

1) high Loading as you suggest due to chronic contamination (rare) or more commonly abuse of time/temperature control meaning it's grown to high levels in the food during shelf life or it hasn't been cooked enough (including canning). Common growth/contamination within shelf life are to do with improper storage at the correct temperature, poor hygiene (washing hands after toilet) reheating previously reheated food.
2) The lifecycle of the bacteria. For example if it is a spore former it takes time to grow in the gut therefore slow or has to be in a suitable environment eg anaerobics need to be in the absence of oxygen eg canned food (clostridium etc)
3) the nature of how it causes the "poisoning"
a) exotoxins (e.g produced by staph aureus etc) if built up by high growth due to (1) will act very soon after ingestion since the cells don't need to be lysed during digestion to release the toxin
b) endotoxins (e.g. Produced by salmonella) take longer to present symptoms since the cells need to be digested first to release the toxins
c) actual infection of bacterial growth, this is normally secondary attack after initial infection (rare)

A combination of these things can change the outcome

The most common food poisoning bugs with their incubation times (time from eating contaminated food to onset of symptoms) are:

Campylobacter 2-5 days
E. coli 24 hrs to 8 days
Salmonella 12-72 hrs (typically at least 24 hrs)
Listeria 2 days to several weeks
Clostridium perfringens 10-12 hrs
Staph aureus 1-6 hrs
Norovirus 24-48 hrs

There are also parasites like cryptosporidium Gardia, etc but food poisoning from these are extremely rare (in the western world anyway).

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Something I do buy a lot of @Mij is shaved cold ham, roast beef, sometimes smoked beef from the deli at my local supermarket. I buy about 300-400g and put in portion sizes into the freezer. I watch the girls behind the counter like a hawk. A couple of times I have seen them drop some of the meat onto the counter and pick it up and put it into the bag. I told them I didn't want meat that had been dropped on the counter, and that it should be thrown away.

Another occasion they had run out of plastic containers and the girl grabbed the container that was sitting on show on the very top counter, possibly could have been there for months, opened, closed, opened... who knows. I said, I don't want that container, that's a show container, lol.

I avoid delis generally since I prefer the vacuum packing and food safety controls of a big factory. They will have much stricter regimes and test product to ensure hygiene is maintained. A deli generally doesn't .

My other tip is for eating out check the toilets ...if these are clean there is a higher chance that the kitchen is also clean. If they are disgusting, eat somewhere else.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

@rosie26 with our weaken immune systems we really have to watch them.

One time I ordered a 'take out' shawarma and the guy who prepared my food was wearing gloves, but never removed them when he handled the cash, so he basically wore the same gloves all day I guess he thought he was practicing good hygiene by wearing the gloves so I explained cross contamination to him. He just shrugged, so I gave him back the sandwich.

I hate gloves too. Most sandwich factories in the uk have ditched these since they are a source of cross contamination mainly because people who don't use gloves wash their hands more frequently than they would change their gloves. This has been proven by hand swabbing etc.

I avoid small catering establishments generally it's not worth the risk.