Microbiome - Butyrate - Inflammation

[LINE]

LPS comes from gram negative bacteria - these are different than gram positive bacteria which are less harmful than negatives and much easier to remove than negatives. Gram positive will respond with a short time period to many of the common antibiotics (both natural and pharma). Things like grapeseed extract and oregano, garlic etc. can terminate positives but typically do not have the same killing power to negatives.

One of the reasons is that gram negatives have a bi-layer membrane which makes antibiotic passage more difficult. In other words, they have stronger resistance.

Here are some definitions that should help:

1. Antibiotic Sensitivity: This simply means what chemical (natural or pharma) is able to target an organism. Keep in mind that not all bacteria respond to a given antibiotic, just like a key will not open every door. Oregano or Amoxicillin may target say a strain of streptococcus but will not kill say staph strains (example only). An example is that you visit a doctor with presentations of a bacterial infection, so they prescribe Amoxicillin and after a week, the infection still lies there so the doctor then tries another antibiotic say Keflex and could cycle another drug if necessary. This is antibiotic sensitivity.

2. Treatment Window: this is a time frame to assess whether the antibiotic given is working. Typically, a 7-10 day window is optimal to assess whether the antibiotic is working. This gives some framework to go by. If nothing happens, then the given antibiotic is not effective and time to change the plan.

 

[LINE]

@Rufous McKinney - to clarify, this is unpasteurized - the probiotics in sauerkraut are different than say probiotics in pill form. It contains a strain called pediococcus which releases bacteriocins or natural antibiotics, studies show this bacteria has strong killing power of difficult infections.

I just got a report back of a female who had c. difficile which is difficult to kill and was showing signs of resistance. She is now reporting after one 16oz bag of unpasteurized that it looks like the bacteria is now dying. We will see if it holds.

 

[LINE]

I wonder if there can be many other actual triggers, from leaky gut, of which we only seem to know about LPS.
I doubt just that one substance is the entire problem.


I heard females do not do as well restricting carbohydrates, but I don t' know much more about that.

Yes, you bring up a good point. Pathogenic yeast could be a problem but typically yeast (and other unwanted pathogens) are opportunistic meaning they can only grow when the gut is dysregulated.

The gut environment is perhaps one of the most complicated environments around with several potential factors involved. I think the research is quite clear that the gut and its complex environment is central or near-central to CFSME problems. When the immune system is overworked, it tends to radiate throughout the body which means it inhibits metabolic functioning thus leading to more confusion in the cells.

 

[Violeta]

Approximately 70% of the human immune system is located in the gut. The gut, also known as the gastrointestinal tract, is the largest immune organ in the body. This large concentration of immune cells in the gut is crucial for protecting the body from harmful pathogens that enter through the digestive system.

Thanks for the direction. I think it's going to be very helpful.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

to clarify, this is unpasteurized - the probiotics in sauerkraut are different than say probiotics in pill form

yes, I'd commonly buy "raw" saurcraut myself. It's really good with a bit of dill pickle in it.

Per my Chinese herbalist: you have no idea what is in that probiotic. He advised me to not take them, which I largely did. He never likes any of our supplements. Same story: who knows what is in that.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Keep in mind that not all bacteria respond to a given antibiotic, just like a key will not open every door.

yes, I've rarely taken an antibiotic in my entire life. But as I child I was probably dosed big time.

So when I had to take one for a skin issue, nothing happened digestion/gut wise.

Seems like when I looked up what I took recently, it was not supposed to affect my insulin resistance, but did.

 

[LINE]

Combing through more data, I found that resistant starch will not be able benefit without bifidobacteria species. As @dt_96 brought up, resistant starch can be beneficial, and I can attest to this with certain experiments. However, I found the results did not hang around and my theory is there was not adequate bifidobacterium.

Resistant starch provides fuel for the butyrate producers and that has been the target of this thread. Kefir is a good source of bifidobacteria, and I had acceptable results with Kefir. I mainly used Lifeway which can be found in many grocery stores.

As a cautionary note, if bad bacteria are present, it is going to throw off the butyrate producers, hence the experiment with sauerkraut with the idea that it can inhibit bad bacteria.

We will see where this all goes

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I took ONE of my infrequently consumed supplements that contains 40% ellagic acid from pomegranate. I had not taken any in a number of weeks. Bottle says two per day.

I had ZERO wind today (gasses, bloating, presumably SIBO-related). I also slept until 11 am. Which was wonderful, and probably had nothing to do with that pill.

The bottle its labeled Stem Cell Complete, and I don't really know why. It says it helps joints. I ordered it by accident from Florida.

If I take this pill every day it makes me feel somewhat constipated, a condition I seem to be intolerant of. The heaviness, the weight, I think my gut is weak, including connective tissue and muscles etc. So slowing down digestion is good, but slowing it down too much feels TOO ODD for me. Hence, I do not take it often.

 

[Violeta]

Combing through more data, I found that resistant starch will not be able benefit without bifidobacteria species. As @dt_96 brought up, resistant starch can be beneficial, and I can attest to this with certain experiments. However, I found the results did not hang around and my theory is there was not adequate bifidobacterium.

Resistant starch provides fuel for the butyrate producers and that has been the target of this thread. Kefir is a good source of bifidobacteria, and I had acceptable results with Kefir. I mainly used Lifeway which can be found in many grocery stores.

As a cautionary note, if bad bacteria are present, it is going to throw off the butyrate producers, hence the experiment with sauerkraut with the idea that it can inhibit bad bacteria.

We will see where this all goes

About resistant starch not benefitting without bifidobacteria, I will have to get something with bifidobacteria down the line. I had been eating homemade kefir, and it helped to greatly reduce abdominal pain, but it was causing very itchy eyes, so I thought the histamines must have been bothering me and stopped eating it. I don't know what to do, but maybe will try the lifeway or Wegman's organice. I just ordered and am waiting for saccharomyces boulardi that I ordered. I forget why I thought that was important.

I did start an herbal antibiotic supposedly for the liver and I take it along with something called Interphase for biofilm in the morning and inulin in milk in the evening. I'm still having bad days, but one thing I didn't expect is that for three days now that I've been doing that my hair isn't falling out at nearly the rate it had been.

I had been thinking that I don't need Butcher's broom and tyrosine so much since I started that but then last night I had insomnia, started aching, too many trips to the bathroom, and I took some butcher's broom and slept 2 1/2 hours straight.

Like you, I'm not sure where this will take me, but I do think the gut is the secret. If I could start being able to eat more variety, I think that would help overall, too.

I don't know if I mentioned n-acetylcysteine, creatine, and glycine, but I had started that combination after Easter. It's hard to keep the momentum on everything, but I do think those help, too. I think Martin Pall's info about needing antioxidants is underrated, and I think the n-acetylcysteine > glutathione is something I need to stick with. I am thankful to @Pyrrhus , who seems to no longer come here, for his info about that.

I don't usually do such long posts, I hope I didn't bore anybody.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I don't usually do such long posts, I hope I didn't bore anybody.

helpful post, because it reminds me of things I am supposedly doing or needing to do more of.

I'm really bad at being a person with a chronic health condition that should be more careful and making sure I get certain things. I have a deep aversion to swallowing pills, perhaps this stems from witnesses my parents.

but I do think the gut is the secret.

I can't seem to make it through Mondays around here. I'm crashed again, and the gut went off, which it has not done in quite a while. That was a day after a total Gut Reprieve from the pill which does something.

I swear (curse, mumble).

 

[Violeta]

helpful post, because it reminds me of things I am supposedly doing or needing to do more of.

I'm really bad at being a person with a chronic health condition that should be more careful and making sure I get certain things. I have a deep aversion to swallowing pills, perhaps this stems from witnesses my parents.

I can't seem to make it through Mondays around here. I'm crashed again, and the gut went off, which it has not done in quite a while. That was a day after a total Gut Reprieve from the pill which does something.

I swear (curse, mumble).

I should be more careful, too. I keep telling myself I'm going to make a list of what I should and at what time I should take it. When I start something new, I often forget to take something else that had been helping. Reading other people's messages here helps me with that, too.

Sorry to hear you had another crash. I've been having some better days, but the off days have been lower than usual, too.

We don't give up, though.

 

[Violeta]

I did start an herbal antibiotic supposedly for the liver and I take it along with something called Interphase for biofilm in the morning and inulin in milk in the evening. I'm still having bad days, but one thing I didn't expect is that for three days now that I've been doing that my hair isn't falling out at nearly the rate it had been.

Every day since I started taking the herbal antifungal (which may be antibacterial, too) I have crashed by around 12 noon. At first I thought it might be a coincidence, but it continues to happen. The crash is pretty severe for me. I feel so tired that if feels like I can't move, feels like something is wrong in my chest. I'm going to stick with it, though.

The amount of hair that I am seeing fall out is still much less than before I started these supps.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I keep telling myself I'm going to make a list of what I should and at what time I should take it.

Mine isn't quite that complicated, but then I do not like to swallow vitamin so I have a pill swallowing limit, it seems.

I've had to use the little weekly dispensers because I"d forget to take this thing around 8:30 PM. Rather than bedtime of after breakfast

 

[Rufous McKinney]

At first I thought it might be a coincidence, but it continues to happen.

Is it working too well? Maybe you need to slow it down more?

I've got some special CTM herbs for lymph detox. And they just nail me every time. Even if I go slow.

I guess I never really resolved all that. My CTM doctor told me to just stop taking it. I'm probably too toxic. I have to do this is tiny tiny increments somehow.

 

[stellaluna]

Would love to hear if anyone has experience with sacchaomyes boulardii or bifidobacteria without lactobacilli.

I used to take a women’s probiotic on top of my daily yogurt and kombucha consumption, which I think was a mistake because now I have a vaginal lactobacillus overgrowth. I cut out the probiotic supplement and am heavily limiting my consumption of probiotic foods now. But my gut hasn’t been doing so well so I’m looking to incorporate a probiotic supplement. Currently taking bacillus coagulans just because it’s easy but it seems to be doing precisely nothing (or maybe increasing gas slightly).

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Today things are going very badly, gut wise. It appears I overdosed on glutamate and histamine. Feel really nauseated.

 

[Violeta]

Would love to hear if anyone has experience with sacchaomyes boulardii or bifidobacteria without lactobacilli.

I used to take a women’s probiotic on top of my daily yogurt and kombucha consumption, which I think was a mistake because now I have a vaginal lactobacillus overgrowth. I cut out the probiotic supplement and am heavily limiting my consumption of probiotic foods now. But my gut hasn’t been doing so well so I’m looking to incorporate a probiotic supplement. Currently taking bacillus coagulans just because it’s easy but it seems to be doing precisely nothing (or maybe increasing gas slightly).

I just started taking saccharomyces boulardi. I will let you know if I notice anything.

 

[Violeta]

Is it working too well? Maybe you need to slow it down more?

I've got some special CTM herbs for lymph detox. And they just nail me every time. Even if I go slow.

I guess I never really resolved all that. My CTM doctor told me to just stop taking it. I'm probably too toxic. I have to do this is tiny tiny increments somehow.

I did not take the antifungal and biofilm buster one day, but started it back up the next day. I've had three good days in a row. Not perfect days, not as if I were normal or anything. Just really good for me.

I am just so happy that I am having less hair falling out. I'm not sure if that's what's making the difference or not, but it does coincide.

But I also started taking astragalus as you would take an antibiotic...2 capsules every six hours. It helps me not feel sick.

How are you doing?

 

[LINE]

Would love to hear if anyone has experience with sacchaomyes boulardii or bifidobacteria without lactobacilli.

I used to take a women’s probiotic on top of my daily yogurt and kombucha consumption, which I think was a mistake because now I have a vaginal lactobacillus overgrowth. I cut out the probiotic supplement and am heavily limiting my consumption of probiotic foods now. But my gut hasn’t been doing so well so I’m looking to incorporate a probiotic supplement. Currently taking bacillus coagulans just because it’s easy but it seems to be doing precisely nothing (or maybe increasing gas slightly).

This sounds like SIBO? Breath test?

 

[LINE]

I am updating on my new experiment -

1/ Unpasteurized sauerkraut (US). Idea is that the live bacteria (which are different than other ferments) is repelling the underlying infection. And likely donating some bifidobacteria. About 3 to 4 tablespoons daily.

2/ Resistant starch as in cassava flour. 1 tablespoon with US

3/ 1 oz or so of Kefir (using Lifeway).

Results: Good results - stool is getting more normal daily (no loose stools). Feeling more normal and energy is more consistent. Neurological improvement as well.

Why: Resistant starch combined with bifidobacteria (found in Kefir and US) manufacture the microbes that produce short chain fatty acids such as Butyrate). Short chain fatty acids (butyrate, propinate and acetate) are powerful molecules that are used in multiple mechanisms that are faulty in MECFS. Attempting to take resistant starch without adequate bifidobacteria will not work effectively. This combination feeds the microbes that produce short chain fatty acids.

Why #2: US has antimicrobial properties (pediococcus) that can knock out difficult microorganisms that are plaguing people.

Maintaining my other baseline nutrients which I will not mention at this time. These may be significant but these were taken before and during my current experiment.