Michael Crawford and the Locations Effect

[mellster]

Hm, I don't have any allergy issues (mild dust-mite and some pollen aside) and also no mold sensitivities (of course I didn't test for all kinds of mold, only a few common ones), but temperature and air pollution play a big role for me. Temperature in general as I have less and milder symptoms in cold and crisp air and air pollution in my reaction to exercise as my post-exercise chest/respiratory inflammation is much milder in the clean ocean air and colder air in general. A lot is also tied to working in an airtight office with AC, my whole life I felt worse in air-conditioned buildings, so I avoid them as much as possible and it seems to work. Location is important IMO but only a part of the puzzle.

 

[slayadragon]

Hypersensitivity to the toxins made by molds is different than hypersensitivity to molds themselves.

There is no test to see if people are hypersensitive to the toxins, unfortunately. Ritchie Shoemaker's panel tests for mold illness (associated with hypersensitivity to mold toxins), and that's the one that's relevant to my discussion.

http://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/lab-tests

I don't have any mold allergies either. That's part of why it took me so many years to figure out that mold (meaning mold toxins) was a problem for me.

HVAC systems are great breeding grounds for toxic molds, and I have a very hard time in most air conditioned buildings as well. I'm not sure what else about air conditioning would make people react strongly.

Do you ever feel better when you travel to places outside the Bay Area, Mellster? People with ME/CFS tend to have a difficult time there, from what I've seen so far.

Best, Lisa

 

[mellster]

Thanks Lisa, I agree about the HVAC, molds could definitely play a role. I will soon be outside the bay area for a longer time, so I will monitor closely for any changes. I know the bay area has a lot of native molds, but it is otherwise a fairly healthy region. One question, would you group candida into the same group of mold/fungi that could excrete toxins?, because at one point (roughly a year ago) I had a candida issue that even conventional docs recognized (found in the esophagus during a gastroscopy and was treated throroughly with nystatin). I also had significant digestive issues at that time which have gotten much better though and are only very mild currently.

 

[slayadragon]

To my understanding, the toxins that candida produces are similar to the ones that toxic molds produce, yes. Most people with mold illness have candida issues (unless they're taking special measures to address them), and the toxins that are created from the candida do seem have a particular effect on them.

Where are you planning to travel?

 

[mellster]

Interesting, thanks. I will be away mid April for roughly 2 months, so enough time to evaluate. I have to admit I am a bit skeptical to blame it all on mold, esp. since I lived for 9 years in the bay area doing fine until my viral onset in 2009, but I will definitely research more and maybe try and find a doc around here that is more specialized in environmental toxins. I work full time and don't have the time to fly and see a specialist. But I have the feeling just eliminating the office completely could give me another big boost at some point (I plan on converting fully to self-employment at in the near/mid future). Thanks again for all the info.

 

[slayadragon]

Where are you planing to go?

 

[mellster]

Europe, Italy and Germany.

 

[justy]

Yes severe systemic candida here too - after a year of antibiotics for pneumonia and lung infections. Was a bugger to get under control - dont think its completely eliminated yet.

Lisa - ERMI? sorry im not familiar with this term - some kind of testing i imagine. One of my problems is that i live in a very remote rural location -we are very limited as to what services are available and people just dont travel to this area - will look into it though. What about outside molds? do you thing living in a very damp area can cause more of these or does it not work like that? We are surrounded by trees - even at the hight of summer everything outside is drenched in the evening - its never ever dry here.
Is the ritchie shoemaker visual test really worthwhile? i have often thought of taking it, but have been sceptical.
All the best, Justy.

 

[slayadragon]

Mellster, that's really interesting. Would you be willing to write down how you feel in different places that you go and share it with us? I don't have a lot of reports from Germany or Italy, so it would be interesting to know if it makes a difference for you, compared to where you are right now.

I don't know that you will want to do this, but in some cases people notice more of an effect when they travel if they are wearing clothes not exposed to their place back home (or at least washed elsewhere). For instance, at one point in my illness, I went to the northern region of Japan and spent time in some hot springs. I felt really great there. Part of it was because of the air quality and the hotels (old inns like that don't have toxic mold generally), but I now think that part of it was that I was keeping my clothes packed away and just wearing the robe supplied by the inn!

Justy, the ERMI is a test that you can do yourself, by taking a sample of the dust in your home and mailing it to a lab. Last I checked, it costed about $300. It's pretty good at distinguishing really problematic places from okay ones. Here is some info about it:

http://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis/ermi-testing

The laboratory tests for mold illness that Shoemaker recommends are here. If people are uncertain whether mold illness is an issue for them, they may choose to take these tests. However, I've yet to see a really sick CFS patient take the test and not come up clearly affected by mold, and with particularly problematic genotypes. Mold illness is not the only problem in CFS, but it does seem to be an issue for all of us, from what I have seen.

http://www.survivingmold.com/diagnosis

Certainly if people are doubtful of this, they can try taking the tests. It's a lot of money, but some people have found the results reassuring to know.

Best, Lisa

 

[Dufresne]

Hi Lisa. Is it possible Friedrich Nietzsche was one of the earliest proponents of mold avoidance?

As you may know it's commonly held that Nietzsche suffered from syphilis, eventually succumbing to it in 1900 at the age of 55, twelve years after losing his sanity. With all the speculation about his illness I don't think anybody has paid any serious attention to his efforts at maximizing his health. Yet this is something Nietzsche took very seriously and swore by. It's recognized that Nietzsche's battle with his health hugely influenced his philosophy but I think few scholars really understand that he never would have written about it if he hadn't discovered a few important things, one of which being the 'locations effect'.

Most of his thoughts regarding his illness and his coping strategies can be found in the first parts of "Ecce Homo". He writes about how his health greatly improved after retiring from his post at Basel University and he started traveling to warmer, drier climates. He spent winters on the Riviera and summers were spent in the Alps as he felt it necessary to get away from the heat.

Sigmund Freud was known to say Nietzsche had a "more penetrating knowledge of himself than any man who ever lived or was likely to live". Like many of us with somewhat mysterious chronic illnesses, he analyzed his ailments to the degree that most around him would find disturbing. But as can be shown by his self-assessment, if not his writing productivity, he was at his best during that period of time, long after the onset of his illness and prior to his eventual collapse while he was living by a strict dietary regimen and residing only in climates that agreed with him. He knew what worked for him. He's been described as near-blind, yet he claimed his vision greatly improved in lock step with his vitality which was of course dependent on his environment. I'd be willing to bet this visual deficit would have registered on a VCS test like Shoemaker uses.

Nietzsche claimed he couldn't collect his thoughts on overcast days. He referred to clouds as his "enemies". This might correspond to what many in the avoidance world have noted occurs with a change in barometric pressure.

I don't know if we can say he suffered from a fatiguing condition in the same vein as ME/CFS, but it's clear that he was laid out for days on end, often enduring seizures and flu-like symptoms following rainy weather and over-exertion. It sometimes took him weeks to fully recover from these setbacks.

So maybe he's yet another example of someone with a chronic infection who had a hell of a time with mold toxins. There's a lot more there in Ecce Homo, this is just what I recall thinking back on it.

Also it's worth the read strictly as inspiration for anyone trying to cope with a chronic illness.

 

[slayadragon]

Hi Lisa. Is it possible Friedrich Nietzsche was one of the earliest proponents of mold avoidance?

As you may know it's commonly held that Nietzsche suffered from syphilis, eventually succumbing to it in 1900 at the age of 55, twelve years after losing his sanity. With all the speculation about his illness I don't think anybody has paid any serious attention to his efforts at maximizing his health. Yet this is something Nietzsche took very seriously and swore by. It's recognized that Nietzsche's battle with his health hugely influenced his philosophy but I think few scholars really understand that he never would have written about it if he hadn't discovered a few important things, one of which being the 'locations effect'.

Most of his thoughts regarding his illness and his coping strategies can be found in the first parts of "Ecce Homo". He writes about how his health greatly improved after retiring from his post at Basel University and he started traveling to warmer, drier climates. He spent winters on the Riviera and summers were spent in the Alps as he felt it necessary to get away from the heat.

Sigmund Freud was known to say Nietzsche had a "more penetrating knowledge of himself than any man who ever lived or was likely to live". Like many of us with somewhat mysterious chronic illnesses, he analyzed his ailments to the degree that most around him would find disturbing. But as can be shown by his self-assessment, if not his writing productivity, he was at his best during that period of time, long after the onset of his illness and prior to his eventual collapse while he was living by a strict dietary regimen and residing only in climates that agreed with him. He knew what worked for him. He's been described as near-blind, yet he claimed his vision greatly improved in lock step with his vitality which was of course dependent on his environment. I'd be willing to bet this visual deficit would have registered on a VCS test like Shoemaker uses.

Nietzsche claimed he couldn't collect his thoughts on overcast days. He referred to clouds as his "enemies". This might correspond to what many in the avoidance world have noted occurs with a change in barometric pressure.

I don't know if we can say he suffered from a fatiguing condition in the same vein as ME/CFS, but it's clear that he was laid out for days on end, often enduring seizures and flu-like symptoms following rainy weather and over-exertion. It sometimes took him weeks to fully recover from these setbacks.

So maybe he's yet another example of someone with a chronic infection who had a hell of a time with mold toxins. There's a lot more there in Ecce Homo, this is just what I recall thinking back on it.

Also it's worth the read strictly as inspiration for anyone trying to cope with a chronic illness.

Wow, this is terrific!

I have heard speculation before that Proust also was suffering from Mold Illness.

I am going to ask around about your theory and see what people say.

One random thing that I wonder is whether Lyme may be merely an opportunistic infection, establishing itself only in people who are being poisoned by their environment. Syphilis is a lot like Lyme (e.g. a spirochete that is "the great imitator"), and so I wonder if syphilis might have had an environmental component too.

Thanks so much for sharing!

Cheers, Lisa

 

[Dufresne]

Wow, this is terrific!

I have heard speculation before that Proust also was suffering from Mold Illness.

I am going to ask around about your theory and see what people say.

One random thing that I wonder is whether Lyme may be merely an opportunistic infection, establishing itself only in people who are being poisoned by their environment. Syphilis is a lot like Lyme (e.g. a spirochete that is "the great imitator"), and so I wonder if syphilis might have had an environmental component too.

Thanks so much for sharing!

Cheers, Lisa

I think you're right about Lyme as opportunistic, however I think these chronic infections end up heightening our reactivity to the toxins. This is probably true for all kinds of intracellular bugs. It's commonplace that LLMD's are finding remarkably high numbers Shoemaker's genes in their patients, like over ninety percent. What I'd like to know is what percentage of ME/CFS patients have these genes. We should set up a poll on the forum here asking anyone who's taken the HLA DR or VCS tests what their results were. We could probably get a rough idea.

Nietzsche went so far as to speculate that most great thought in the world came from sunny and dry climates. Of course he was mainly thinking of his beloved Greeks when he said this. This somewhat nutty comment was probably just an example of projection but it goes to show how convinced he was of this effect on his own health.

It might also be worth noting that Nietzsche's father died very young. Apparently from "softening of the brain." But that his real decline kicked in after a head trauma. Again, some kind of neurological weakness amplified by an insult. Just like how ME/CFS can seemingly be triggered by either an infection or a trauma.

Proust was great.

 

[maryb]

Just wanted to comment on the mould tests. I have been tested twice and both times moulds came back as negative.
I am in fact super sensitive to mould and other environment toxins. In fact walking round an antique centre based in a very old mill just as I was recovering from ME the first time I got ill, was I'm sure now the trigger to the virus re-activating - the next day I was back in bed and never recovered again.........