mental performance

[Manganus]

I am bed bound 90% of time. Actually, my iq level is relatively intact - about 125. I don't have problems with instant memory, I can remember upto 8 digits/letters. I have problems with remembering, learning new things. Also, when I am really tired, exhausted I may have troubles to recall some famous names that I should remember. Is it ME/CFS pattern? what do you think?

I guess most of us have slightly different experiences, but to me your situation seems very much as cognitive effects (i.e. cerebral symptoms) typical in the ME-group.

I, at least, identify easily with you, although the particulars differ. My condition became bad in the mid 1990s, in relapses that in retrospect seem to be triggered by demanding studies. Since then I usually calculate with one or two digits' significance. I struggle to keep two digits/letters in mind. My ability to recognise visual patterns became virtually annihilated, including faces of friends and relatives.

I still understand what I used to understand, ...but I can make no good use of it any longer, and I often have to check the tiniest details like spelling or grammatical gender while writing. And I have problems remembering names and terms all the time. Name- and face recognition was bad also before 1993/94, but it's gotten worse - much worse.

I feel like my IQ shrunk one or two standard deviations, and since then vary a little bit up on good years and down in the bad years, but I've made no attempt to assess this, and wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that I've retained a substantial part of my intelligence, and hence that the feeling represents something else than what is measured in IQ tests.

 

[mhrps]

three dimensional interpretation.

I have recently done a test on this. It said that I should have found a job as an interior architect. What a joke, a barely move around my house.

 

[Persimmon]

Actually, my iq level is relatively intact...

Is it ME/CFS pattern? what do you think?

My memory recall waxes and wanes depending on how good a day I'm having... I can't recall conversations earlier in the same day, even with memory jogs etc.

I don't think this has any bearing on "intelligence" whatever definition you use... Cognition is definitely different to intelligence in my book.

I don't think intelligence comes into it...
I find it almost impossible to take in new information when tired....and words often completely escape me...

ME doesn't impact IQ, even if in some tests we really not do well. Brain function is diminished... but intelligence remains intact. Short term memory is most commonly impaired. Short term memory is also the working memory, what you need to function well at work, unfortunately.

There is a distinct pattern of cognitive impairments caused by ME/CFS.

It was first identified when Peterson & Cheney sent some of their Incline Village cluster patients for neuropsychological testing.
The pattern was identified by Sheila Bastien PhD and a colleague, back in the 1980s.

Bastien's work led to neuropsych testing becoming the first way to verify disability in ME/CFS to the satisfaction US disability insurers & US welfare agencies. This testing was perceived to be an objective measure of disability.
(This was 15+ years before the 2-day CPET test came on the scene.)

Later, Gudrun Lange PhD started publishing extensively in the area and became the leading spokesperson (eg at academic conferences) for the pattern of deficits Bastien had identified. When I last checked, Lange was still active as a clinician and researcher.

****

As to intelligence, cognitive deficits and IQ...
"Intelligence" is an abstract concept: it can be interpreted/defined in various ways.

In contrast, "IQ" specifically refers to scores achieved on IQ tests.
IQ tests are made up of a series of sub-tests, that each measure a particular form of cognitive performance.

Eg there is a sub-scale that measures working memory.
If your working memory becomes impaired, your score on this sub-scale will drop; and this reduced sub-scale score axiomatically lowers your overall IQ score.

By definition, acquired cognitive deficits reduce IQ.
If ME/CFS caused you to have short-term memory / working memory problems; info processing problems etc etc, then ME/CFS has reduced your IQ (all other things being equal).

Many years ago, Prof Tony Komaroff (Harvard) gave a presentation in which he referred to one of his patients. Pre-ME/CFS, this patient was the top-ranked student in her year at Harvard; after ME/CFS struck, her IQ was measured and found to be average for a person of her age.

He made the obvious point that no-one with an average IQ has the slightest hope of getting into Harvard & then topping the class.
The purpose of his anecdote was to convey the magnitude of the impact ME/CFS can have on functional levels of intellect.

The book Osler's Web covers some of this (eg Bastien's early involvement) and depicts even more spectacular case studies.

These topics have been addressed in various other PR threads.

****

Finally, I would add a personal suspicion - that it is probably common for a person with ME/CFS to not be fully aware of how much impact acquired cognitive impairments have on their real-life performance.

This sort of limited appreciation of the impact of one's own acquired cognitive deficits is well recognised in other conditions (eg Alzheimer's).

 

[TigerLilea]

I am bed bound 90% of time. Actually, my iq level is relatively intact - about 125. I don't have problems with instant memory, I can remember upto 8 digits/letters. I have problems with remembering, learning new things. Also, when I am really tired, exhausted I may have troubles to recall some famous names that I should remember. Is it ME/CFS pattern? what do you think?

For myself, the less active I am, the more it affects my memory and causes slower thinking. I think that anyone who is bed bound 90% of the time would probably find that their mental acuity would be off regardless of whether they had CFS/ME or not. I'm finding, too, that as I get older my memory isn't what it used to be. And, unfortunately, I can't blame that one on CFS/ME.

 

[me/cfs 27931]

I identify and struggle with many of the cognitive symptoms mentioned above, including poor working memory, slow information processing, and loss of ability to do mathematics (I once had a dream job that I had to give up when I lost the ability to do math).

Roughly 10 years ago, I lost my ability to visualize things in my head. It was baffling and frustrating. This ability has slowly returned, and is now about 60% what it used to be.

@alex3619 mentioned a loss of episodic memory.

When I've had a serious ME/CFS relapse (I've had about 8), I often lose the memories from large chunks (years) of my life. Usually these chunks of memory are from the period leading up to and including the relapse. Eventually, these chunks of memories can partially return, but what returns is an incomplete and unreliable scramble.

It's as if my life has random gigantic ME/CFS-crash memory black holes. Plus there is a additional memory black hole of about 7 months prior to when I was given ECT.

Yet neurocognitive testing shows that my IQ is still intact.

Just recently, some lost memories from the mid-late 1980's came back. Who knows why. Still it feels like someone else's life I'm re-remembering.

 

[jlynx]

It's one of the worst symptoms in my book. I often have to read things 2-3 times to be able to comprehend it, and I take longer to comprehend what someone is saying to me. It feels like my brain is running on slow speed. I've blanked in the middle of a conversation before, short term memory is awful, and I often can't think of words I'm trying to say. I also combine words or switch words a lot. It's given me a lot of social anxiety.

It does vary in degree and is worse when I'm more fatigued. When I crash my brain goes to mush.

 

[Tunguska]

Cognition decline has been my biggest problem/focus - as in, all of the above - but it's going better. This is just a continuation of what I started in this thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ng-up-in-the-morning.50362/page-2#post-831115
and another one, but it's more appropriate here:
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fncel.2014.00134/full

Allopregnanolone and neuroinflammation: a focus on multiple sclerosis
The progesterone derivative allopregnanolone (ALLO) is one of the most widely studied compounds among neurosteroids. Through interactions with GABA-A receptors expressed by neurons and glial cells, ALLO has been shown to affect diverse aspects of neural cell physiology, including cell proliferation and survival, migration, and gene expression. Recent data point to important roles for ALLO in different neurodegenerative disorders, including Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and multiple sclerosis (MS). Dysregulation in ALLO biosynthesis pathways has been reported in brain tissue from MS patients as well as in the central nervous system (CNS) tissue derived from MS animal models. Administration of ALLO has been shown to ameliorate neurobehavioral deficits together with neuropathology and inflammation in the CNS of animals with autoimmune demyelination. These findings are in line with previous reports indicating growth- and differentiation-promoting actions of ALLO on neurons and glial cells as well as its neuroprotective effects in the context of other CNS diseases. Nonetheless, these findings have also raised the possibility that ALLO might influence leukocyte biology and associated neuroinflammatory mechanisms independent of its neuroregenerative properties. Herein, we review the current knowledge regarding the role of ALLO in the pathogenesis of MS, and discuss the potential cellular and molecular pathways that might be influenced by ALLO in the context of disease.

It's by no means the only thing I'm doing that I think is contributing but I'm estimating it's the largest factor (when taken in large bolus doses every few days).

[The other thing that looked comparable was the intranasal insulin (in the sense of it being tested for Alzheimer's) that some people here reported on, but due to having had issues with nasal sprays it wasn't my first recourse so haven't tried yet]