Meal suggestions? Cutting right back on dairy, gluten, eggs, citrus, corn, spelt

[Valentijn]

There's some good ideas there Valentijn. What flour do you do use for your bread? I'm still looking for a nice gluten free bread recipe

I use a mix of different flours, based on the recipes in http://www.amazon.com/Gluten-Free-Vegan-Bread-Artisanal-Recipes/dp/1570617805 though I ignore most of the instructions and use a breadmaker instead.

One key is to use proper binders - gluten usually does this, and egg tends to be the 2nd choice, but I can't handle either. So soaked chia seeds, tapioca and/or arrowroot starch, and xanthum gum handle it instead. Also non-wheat flours tend to have a stronger flavor, so it's pretty normal to have 1 cup of two different flours and 1/2 cup of three additional flours to end up with a flavor that is nicely balanced and not too strong.

I probably use millet and quinoa most often, though I also like the flavors that a bit of almond, corn, or garbanzo flour can add. Teff or buckwheat is nice when I feel like eating something a little heartier.

 

[Valentijn]

Its not about punishing yourself with restricted diets or IBS - its about feeling ill - dizzy, heavy legs and body- wanting to sleep - sometimes tingling lips, cough etc etc - signs of a food sensitivity/intolerance. I can have these symptoms back immediately if I eat the wrong foods - strawberry will make my left eyelid droop practically onto my cheek. Totally different issues.
I've never had IBS - that I know of....

For me it's full-body swelling from eating the wrong foods. Very predictable, very noticeable, and sometimes very painful. I also get intense but short-lived back pain without swelling from some foods - I think that one might be a gallbladder reaction versus an immune reaction.

To quote my GP when an allergy test came back clear: if you feel better when you don't eat it, then don't eat it.

 

[brenda]

The Panasonic breadmaker has gluten free recipes and is the only one suitable for gluten free bread.

 

[Valentijn]

If only diet could resolve the ME we'd all be laughing

I think that's where the problems start - when some idiot starts spouting off about curing ME by eating (or not eating) X, Y, and Z. Then they usually get upset when we don't take them seriously and object to eating raw unpasteurized sauerkraut before every meal

So to one extent, we tend to push back hard against that sort of wide-reaching cluelessness. But on the other hand, most of us do react badly to various things, and a couple symptoms might improve if we avoid them. And sometimes the only way to find out what we're reacting to is to cut out the usual suspects and see if we feel better without them and/or feel worse when try them again.

So while I agree that people selling dietary cures for ME/CFS need to find a new hobby, I also think that trying to eliminate foods from time to time can be very beneficial. It's also been my personal experience that things which start off a minor intolerance end up causing progressively more severe reactions after several months.

 

[snowathlete]

Thanks everyone. Good discussion and lots of options for me to try out!

I dont have an Asian grocery store near me, but there is a health shop which started out as a scoop shop and they do a whole load of stuff, so I'm gonna try there soon.

I tried soya mince several years ago - went to a vegetarian's house for tea - I could hardly bare it. lol. Luckily meat is ok, so although burgers are off the menu because of breadcrumbs and egg, I dont have to resort to fake-meat, thankfully!

I've bought some arrowroot powder to try as a thickener.

gluten free bread - doesnt look great, but doesnt look awful either.

I never trusted microwaves anyway - dont own one.

I'm personally not too worried about arsenic in rice. I mean, you do get arsenic in a few things. Reminds me of Dr. Tarello's work using arsenic based drugs to treat CFS (not suggesting rice will make you better though).

I dont have any belief that diet can heal ME btw, just want to make that clear - in fact, I hold the opposite belief because I havent seen any evidence to back up such claims and I dont believe there is any logical reason why it would work for to cure a disease. Its a popular belief in culture nowadays, but I dont buy in to it because of the lack of evidence to support it.
De Meirleir talks in one of his recent videos about the gut problems being a result of the disease, not the other way around, and he thinks that these allergies are as a result of a dysfunctional immune system.
My reason for cutting these things out is that I want my immune system fighting the problems I have with infections, not wasting energy and causing additional inflammation, fighting what I ingest. I don't have high expectations of any improvement in symptoms as a result, though I wouldnt be surprised if i did experience some limited improvement to some symptoms (gluten does make me more tired for example - known that for years).

eggs as a binder - not in me...they may be trying to bind, but my stomach is trying to expel as quick as they can!

just bought some non-corn, gluten free pasta. I have low expectations.

 

[WillowJ]

although burgers are off the menu because of breadcrumbs and egg,

it's possible to make burgers without either of these ingredients, but one can use rice crackers in place of breadcrumbs if desired. the burgers may not turn out quite like expected, but in my experience, they'll still taste fine.

 

[Valentijn]

it's possible to make burgers without either of these ingredients, but one can use rice crackers in place of breadcrumbs if desired. the burgers may not turn out quite like expected, but in my experience, they'll still taste fine.

It's been years since I made hamburgers, but I think the trick was not to over-work them. Just season them, smush them into the right shape, carefully get the edges rounded a bit, and leave it be. Too much poking and they get crumbly.

 

[WillowJ]

It's been years since I made hamburgers, but I think the trick was not to over-work them. Just season them, smush them into the right shape, carefully get the edges rounded a bit, and leave it be. Too much poking and they get crumbly.

been years for me, too. the ones made for me tend to fall apart abit around the edges, which is fine by me.

 

[dannybex]

I use a mix of different flours, based on the recipes in http://www.amazon.com/Gluten-Free-Vegan-Bread-Artisanal-Recipes/dp/1570617805 though I ignore most of the instructions and use a breadmaker instead.

One key is to use proper binders - gluten usually does this, and egg tends to be the 2nd choice, but I can't handle either. So soaked chia seeds, tapioca and/or arrowroot starch, and xanthum gum handle it instead. Also non-wheat flours tend to have a stronger flavor, so it's pretty normal to have 1 cup of two different flours and 1/2 cup of three additional flours to end up with a flavor that is nicely balanced and not too strong.

I probably use millet and quinoa most often, though I also like the flavors that a bit of almond, corn, or garbanzo flour can add. Teff or buckwheat is nice when I feel like eating something a little heartier.

Hi Valentijn,

I couldn't help but notice that book had a lot of negative reviews...mostly problems with cooking times, breads coming out like hard bricks. I also wonder, if they're vegan, what kind of oils they use?

I'm guessing that's why you have made your own alterations? I'd kill for a decent alternative to brown rice bread (the arsenic thing is an issue with me), and the millet sounds like a possible alternative. Of course a bread-making machine would be nice too (as would a winning lotto ticket).

I don't suppose you have a recipe you could post?

Dan

 

[snowathlete]

BTW - is it egg yolk/white? I can tolerate the occasional egg white but not the yolk.

Both.
Tesco do a fairly good bread i have found.I may try a bacon sandwich tomorrow!
I'm eating a lot of oat biscuits, rice and crisps so far (chips to you Americans), and figs.
Raspberry sorbet = good at cheering me up.

 

[maddietod]

I've always made hamburgers with just the meat and some steak sauce mixed in. Maybe we grind the meat differently in the US, but I've never had trouble with them falling apart.

I like rice noodles, but you might have to try a few before you find a good one. Or see if you can find reviews. This is my favorite:
http://www.tinkyada.com/.

Also these guys have great cookies and crackers http://www.schar.com/. Their bread mix is fabulous.

 

[Valentijn]

Hi Valentijn,

I couldn't help but notice that book had a lot of negative reviews...mostly problems with cooking times, breads coming out like hard bricks. I also wonder, if they're vegan, what kind of oils they use?

Her oven was malfunctioning when she wrote the book, so most of the cooking times are off. But for use with a breadmaker, you don't need cooking times anyhow There's also an "errata" file on her site with the corrections. The oil used is olive oil, which works fine, though I usually substitute the water+oil with a can of high-fat coconut milk+less oil.

I'm guessing that's why you have made your own alterations? I'd kill for a decent alternative to brown rice bread (the arsenic thing is an issue with me), and the millet sounds like a possible alternative. Of course a bread-making machine would be nice too (as would a winning lotto ticket).

I don't suppose you have a recipe you could post?

My favorite recipe is from the book, so it's copyrighted. But with my alterations it generally looks like:
2 tbsp chia seeds soaked in 0.5 cups water (replaces the role of eggs) for 20 minutes. Stir a couple times so all seeds are nice and wet and can make a nice gel.

Mix together in a bowl:
2 cups of three different flours (0.5-1.0 cups each)
1.5 cups of two starches (0.5-1.0 cups each)
1 heaping tsp active dry yeast
1 tsp salt
1 tsp xanthum gum

Then I scrape the top off a can of high-fat coconut milk, and melt the oil part for 20 seconds in the microwave.
Mix together in a bowl (or directly into the bread pan of a bread-making machine):
The milk and melted oil from a can of coconut milk
5(?) tbsp of maple syrup (or normal sugar mixed in with the dry ingredients)
1-2 tbsp olive oil
the chia seed gel

Then mix in the dry ingredients - might require some kneading action.
Throw the dough in/on your bread pan and let it rise 45 minutes.
Bake for 50 minutes, at 375F degrees (190C).

When it comes to flours, I like millet a lot for a "normal" bread, as well as rice, and either buckwheat or quinoa. I don't think the starches matter too much, though tapioca is supposed to be good for texture and/or crust. The other starch I use a lot is arrowroot, which is harder to get. Potato starch might work just as well though.

Regarding sugar/syrup and yeast. The book says to use a LOT more yeast, but that always results in my breads collapsing. Yesterday I made a Frisian sugar bread, with my normal amount of yeast, and got some really nice rising action. Most recipes say to use less sugar than I have listed above, but it seems to help a lot with rising, so I think a bit more is better.

 

[Firestormm]

I tried soya mince several years ago - went to a vegetarian's house for tea - I could hardly bare it. lol. Luckily meat is ok, so although burgers are off the menu because of breadcrumbs and egg, I dont have to resort to fake-meat, thankfully!

I could tell a few stories about my distaste for this tasteless soya. My mum is a vegan/vegetarian and allergic to milk and dairy (though not goats cheese interestingly enough). So Dad went veggie too for ages.

Were always trying to 'sneak' soya meat mince onto my plate whenever I visited - or when I was living with them on occasion because of this condition.

Never worked. They gave up in the end and Dad was I think rather happy not to have such a strict diet when I was around. My brothers were veggies too - and the smell of microwaved soya-bacon after they'd had a heavy night on the beer: well it still makes my stomach heave thinking about it!

Rather makes me consider again why soya is made to look like meat when it tastes like cardboard and can smell worse. Anyway. Your comment made me remember. Thanks for that

Both.
Tesco do a fairly good bread i have found.I may try a bacon sandwich tomorrow!
I'm eating a lot of oat biscuits, rice and crisps so far (chips to you Americans), and figs.
Raspberry sorbet = good at cheering me up.

Mum does use 'no eggs'. Which is like a powder that you can buy in Tesco's I think. It's a binder and she uses it to cook with instead of egg. Obviously not as good as eggs - but apparently does the same/similar thing as a binder.

 

[dannybex]

My favorite recipe is from the book, so it's copyrighted. But with my alterations it generally looks like:
2 tbsp soaked in 0.5 cups water (replaces the role of eggs) for 20 minutes. Stir a couple times so all seeds are nice and wet and can make a nice gel.

Mix together in a bowl:
2 cups of three different flours (0.5-1.0 cups each)
1.5 cups of two starches (0.5-1.0 cups each)
1 heaping tsp active dry yeast
1 tsp salt
1 tsp xanthum gum

Then I scrape the top off a can of high-fat coconut milk, and melt the oil part for 20 seconds in the microwave.
Mix together in a bowl (or directly into the bread pan of a bread-making machine):
The milk and melted oil from a can of coconut milk
5(?) tbsp of maple syrup (or normal sugar mixed in with the dry ingredients)
1-2 tbsp olive oil
the chia seeds

Then mix in the dry ingredients - might require some kneading action.
Throw the dough in/on your bread pan and let it rise 45 minutes.
Bake for 50 minutes, at 375F degrees (190C).
...

Thanks so much V -- I really appreciate it. Good to hear that olive oil (and/or coconut) is used instead of omega-six vegetable oils.

A couple of questions:

You said: "2 tbsp soaked in 0.5 cups water..." 2 tbsps of what?

And with all that flour, etc., how big of a loaf does that make? How long do you think it would last for one person?

d.

 

[brenda]

My method to make bread, is to prepare a sour dough starter with equal amounts of distilled water (could use filtered but not tap) and wholemeal flour then whisk it and keep in a lidded jar. Keep adding another 'dose' twice a day for a week.

When sourdough is fermenting, add to flour plus water, again not tap water, and knead it, adding some salt after five minutes. The dough should be sticky. I don't measure anything. Place in a bowl greased with a small amount of olive oil and leave overnight in fridge. Next day turn it out and let it rise for a few hours then place in a hot oven 220c with boiling water into a tray in bottom of oven. Cook for about 30--40 mins turning down the oven after 15mins or so.

I can eat sourdough wheat bread which greatly surprised me. The fermentation changes the protein - gluten. I wear rubber gloves for kneading the dough.

 

[maddietod]

brenda, this article http://www.celiac.com/articles/23145/1/Is-Sourdough-the-Future-of-Gluten-free-Bread/Page1.html
supports the healing properties of sourdough fermentation, but says that celiacs need to use gluten free flours. I know we're not talking about people with celiac disease here.

I don't have celiac disease, and sourdough bread is just like eating regular bread, for me.

 

[Valentijn]

You said: "2 tbsp soaked in 0.5 cups water..." 2 tbsps of what?

Whoops, that's Chia seeds soaked in the water.

And with all that flour, etc., how big of a loaf does that make? How long do you think it would last for one person?

I think it's a pretty standard sized loaf. It lasts me 3-4 days.

 

[undcvr]

One often overlooked and very important concept when it comes to leaky gut is the the concept of food intolerance, specifically to histamine containing food. This intolerance may include tyramines as well. Histamine in foods that we eat contain histamines that over stimulate our immune system. Histamine itself coses alot of autoimmune like conditions in the body. Lots of food contain histamine, in fact, you cannot avoid it and if u have CFS and a leaky gut you will be histamine intolerant bcos your body does not produce the probiotics or the enzyme to break down histamine.

It is also the reason why pple with CFS feel so much better when they fast. It allows the liver to stop being busy assimilating and filtering foods and detox and process the toxins that are already in the body. It also reduces the amounts of histamine we are taking in.

Heal the gut but definitely look into reducing histamine intake and breaking it down in general with probiotics or the histamine enzyme diamine oxidase.

Example: If you take lots of Benadryl, Vitamin C and Quercertin and are still experiencing allergic and or gastro-intestinal symptoms (eg sneezing, sinus) you are histamine intolerant. These supplements stop your mast cells from releasing Histamine but once the Histamine is out and circulating there is no enzyme to break them down. The only other place the Histamine can be coming from if not from your immune system is your food. Supplements that reduce histamine production from your immune system won't really work. The Histamine is coming from the foods you eat and not your immune system. It's about breaking down histamine not reducing its production.

Also it is not a myth that women who are pregnant notice their CFS symptoms gone. Pregnant women make up to like 400 times more DAO when compared to when they r not.