ME/CFS is a mystery no more! Under ME/CFS hides Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome (CBIS) — [This Thread ONLY for Posting Questions to Dr Markov]

publish a paper, and call a press conference with your results all documented in a very professional way;

it is also not clear how long you have been monitoring patients: do they relapse for instance? there are many questions.
Regarding relapses: it should be noted that the first so long-awaited positive results of treatment, some particularly vulnerable patients experienced already in a few days after the first injections of the bacterial vaccine.

After the state improved, there was almost inevitably a slight relapse, as if "rollback" a little back and the state of health became worse. At this moment the most important thing is not to lose heart. Then, with the beginning of the next course of immunization, the state improved again, then worsened again… These are as if swings: better - worse, better - worse, better, the movement of which gradually slows down.

Usually this movement characterizes the typical course of both the disease of ME/CFS-CBIS and the clinical response to treatment with bacterial vaccines. But with each subsequent course, the well-being becomes better and better, approaching the mark of "100%-recovery" and already almost never returns during the deterioration to that zero from which the treatment began.

Treatment w/ bacterial autovaccines was steadily safe: none of 3975 patients w/ ME/CFS-CBIS, children and adults, who received such treatment, had no complications and any negative side reactions to vaccines.

Treatment of ME/CFS-CBIS with bacterial autovaccines w/ a final level of effectiveness 95-97% during the first two years from the start of treatment and with complete recovery of the ability to work.

This final level of effectiveness 95-97% depends on duration of the disease, namely: judging by our clinical experience and statistics, in case of disease duration upto 5 years efficacy reaches 95-100%, if more than 5 years – upto 90% (i.e. every 9 from 10 patients is treated w/ full convalescence).

Important: we cure patients diagnosed ME/CFS-CBIS even w/ organic neurological, nephrological, ophthalmological etc. lesions – obviously, we cann’t recover fully the prior healthy state, but we can stop further deterioration of the patients’ state.



I have not read the full paper mentioned from Ukraine yet but why does the urine sample need to be kept Warm & how warm? Room Temperature? Are we seeing enlargement of any Kidneys, mine is enlarged left side & does anyone have high creatine kinase levels? thank you
Really, Ultra-sound sees some enlargements in the kidneys of patients w/ ME/CFS-CBIS, namely enlargement in the pyelocaliceal system (calyx-pelvis system) in the kidneys.



You can have my Anamnesis. But Herr Lauterbach won't be able to invent a logistical service that brings you my urine warm from Germany to the Ukraine. And I don't know if you knew it: it's not his job. This guy Member of the Bundestag 👋
Linda Tannebaum won't help either, she lives in the US.
Herr Lauterbach and OMF could assist us both in transfer from Germany to Ukraine not a warm urine, but in transfer of urino-cultures prepared according to our instructions w/ accompanying docs.
 
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Below there are answers and current info. regarding ME/CFS - LONG-Covid (it’s Google translation Russian-English):

For over 10 years (since 2002) Igor and Artem Markov have been answering patients' questions on infectious diseases on the Ukrainian portal "Likar-Info". With pleasure we answer for the patients of your Forum.PhoenixRising. Since the questions are general and strategic in nature, there were no short answers:



1) Please tell us which of the established criteria for diagnosing ME/CFS you used to determine that 4500 of your patients had ME/CFS? The established criteria are the Canadian Consensus Criteria, the International Consensus Criteria and the Institutes of Medicine ME/CFS/SEID diagnosis flowchart. Knowing which of these criteria used will help us evaluate your results.
For the first time, the term and definition of CFS were presented by American scientists in 1988. In 1994, the CFS definition was revised and, in its updated form, it received international status, which we used in our diagnostic assessments. According to the 1994 definition, a minimum of 6 months of incomprehensible fatigue is needed, which does not disappear, but does not relieve after rest and significantly limits the level of daily activity.

In addition to fatigue that lasts at least 6 months, four or more of the 8 of these symptoms must be present: • impaired memory or concentration; • pharyngitis; • painful cervical or axillary lymph nodes on palpation; • muscle soreness or stiffness; • joint pain (no redness or swelling); • recurrent headache or a change in its quality (type, severity); • sleep that does not bring a feeling of recovery (freshness, vigor); • increased fatigue to exhaustion after physical or mental exertion, which lasts more than 24 hours.

Among 2340/4500 (52%) adult patients with Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrom (CBIS), at least 4 main symptoms in various combinations were found in all 100% of cases, 5 - in 2153/2340 (92%), 6 - in 1849/2340 (79%), 7 - in 1732/2340 (74%) and all 8 - in 1240/2340 or 53% (see Message 2 in the materials of the 8th Congress on Infectious Diseases 14-15.02.2021).

This could most likely indicate that, under normal conditions, all these patients should have been diagnosed with a previously known CFS/ME diagnosis with an uncertain etiology of origin. In children, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the diagnosis of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS was first established in the clinic, had age-related clinical features and did not always meet the accepted criteria for CFS/ME for adults (see Report 6 published by the 8th Congress on Infectious Diseases, February 15-16, 2021).



2) What is your definition of full convalescence and recovery and what time-line did you use to ensure that this was not a simple remission? Is continued treatment necessary to ensure long-term health?
When treating with bacterial autovaccines, regardless of the localization of the focus of chronic bacterial infection (in the nasopharynx, in the mouth, in the eyes, in the bronchi and / or in the lungs, in the genitourinary system, including in the kidneys - Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS or pyelonephritis) complete recovery was determined by 3 main criteria, understandable and accessible to both the patient and his attending physician: - clinical: the absence of complaints and objective symptoms of the disease, which were determined before the start of treatment; - microscopic: normalization of the general analysis of urine (in cases of its initial deviation from the norm) and - bacteriological: the absence of pathogenic and opportunistic flora in warm urine cultures (or from other concomitant foci, for example, in the nasopharynx with chronic staphylococcal infection, which is the main source of subsequent kidney infection).

With a disease duration of 3-5 years, the absence of these 3 criteria for 1 year was considered as clinical recovery. With longer periods of CFS / ME disease (up to 10 years or more), they were careful and more often considered the absence of complaints as a stable long-term remission, sometimes throughout the foreseeable future life.

Although it should be noted that sometimes patients who completely recovered 5-7 years ago from Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS returned to the clinic due to the relapse of certain symptoms of the disease. But these symptoms were always much less pronounced compared to the initial episode. In addition, the patients suffered to a lesser extent, p.h. already knew their true origin and turned, without wasting time on trips to other specialists, a few weeks / months after their resumption.

In connection with this question, two remarks from the authors are needed. First, since infection with bacteria that cause Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS occurs daily and repeatedly, lifelong resistance to them cannot be formed. Thus, post-vaccination immunity in this case necessarily requires additional immunization, as for example, with diphtheria (every 10 years), with influenza or COVID-19 (every 9-12 months).

Such vaccination for Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS can be both therapeutic (with the resumption of symptoms that do not go away on their own in 2-3 weeks), and prophylactic - with positive results of bacteriological examination of warm urine against the background of clinical well-being. Secondly, there are many cofactor causes that lead to a weakening of local immunity on the mucous membranes and can provoke an exacerbation of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS. Taking antibiotics is one of these main provoking reasons.



3) What are your charges for: initial consult; diagnosis; full course of treatment; follow-up? (Detailed answer, please)
The cost is more than humane. Consultation - $ 100, examination - $ 200-500 (depending on the volume of research), 1 vaccination course of 10 injections - $ 100, 1 vaccination cycle consists of 2-3 courses, no more than 1 time in 6 months. A complete treatment protocol can be 4-6 cycles over 2-3 years. Now more about the cost of examination and treatment. Money and earnings for the clinic are good, but in this case, not the main thing.

It is wrong and offensive that patients who are ready and able to spend any money on their treatment, for years and decades go in circles from specialist to specialist, each of whom treats only "their" symptoms and diagnoses within the framework of their specialization. And the main reason (Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS which imitate CFS/ME) remains behind the scenes.



4) Do patients need to come to your clinic or can you work with tele-consultations and couriered biological samples? If patients need to stay for a length of time close to your clinic, what accommodations are available and what is their approximate cost?
For patients with limited mobility, it is possible to work remotely with the delivery of samples of isolated bacterial cultures. To do this, you still need a virtual consultation with the preliminary provision of copies of extracts from the medical history and the tests performed.

For mobile patients, it is better to come to the first "live" consultation in Kyev, Ukraine, and then you can also consult in absentia. The examination time takes 1-2 hours, the time for delivery of 3 bacterial cultures of warm urine - up to 3 days. Performing bacterial tests - 7 days, preparation of autovaccines - 7-8 days. Depending on plans and possibilities, the minimum stay in Kyev ranges from 3 to 15-16 days.

The vaccine is administered on an outpatient basis subcutaneously at the place of residence. There are no side effects (the autovaccine does not contain preservatives, more than 25 thousand injections). Next to our clinic (300 meters) there is a modern hotel "Tourist". The cost of the room is from 1420 UAH / day (2-bed economy class room 18 sq.m.) to 4420 UAH / day for a suite; hryvnia exchange rate on 06/10/21 - 27.2 UAH / $ 1, i.e. from $ 52 to $ 162 per day.



5) What is the average length of time between initial consultation and potential convalescence or end of treatment?
The time period from the start of treatment to its end (recovery) can range from 6 months (1 treatment cycle, consisting of 3 courses of immunization with different autovaccines for 100-110 days) to 3 years (4-6 treatment cycles with intervals between cycles of 3-4 months), depending on the duration of the disease. On average, when the disease is 3-7 years old, 3-4 treatment cycles are required.

But! The first positive changes begin during the first course of vaccination (the first 7-10 injections). The effectiveness of treatment and the duration of a positive clinical response resemble a kind of "swing": better-worse-better. In the rhythm of the waltz, three quarters: one-two-three, one-two-three. But even with an exacerbation, the condition never returns to the zero point from which treatment began.



6) Could you please give us links to independent studies or data that support the efficacy of your protocol in treating patients diagnosed through one of the criteria listed above? Peer review is very important to patients.
No, they could not. They simply do not exist. For 12 years we continued this research, until we ourselves were convinced that this was not an invention, not an accident, not a coincidence, not a personal passion of the authors.

Today, multicenter studies are needed (fortunately, there are many regional and international centers for the study of CFS/ME with quite decent funding) to confirm the existence of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS and related conditions. Actually, this was the main meaning of our messages: today we are absolutely sure that the life and fate, in the literal sense of the word, of millions of CFS/ME patients around the world can be radically changed for the better.




P.S.
The best confirmation of new information is new cases of the disease. Today, in our Clinic, among other patients, 2 patients with Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS are undergoing examination and treatment. These are the stories/examples:

1) A 70-year-old man, went to the clinic on 06/03/2021. From 03/20/2021 until 04/22/2021, he underwent a severe form of coronavirus infection, was hospitalized, and received antibiotics for three weeks. After being discharged from the hospital, he never returned to his "normal" life. Constantly experiencing severe weakness, severe sweating, shortness of breath, pain in the knee joints.

After being discharged from the hospital, he continues to receive a maintenance dose of corticosteroid drugs, while trying to cancel them, he developed two febrile attacks with an increase in temperature to 38.6-39.1°C: from 05/15 within 5 days and from 05/28 within 4 days.

After examination in the clinic, a diagnosis of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS was established with latent formation of chronic sluggish pyelonephritis (based on a general urine analysis with proteinuria, leukocyturia, erythrocyturia, cylindruria /, as well as ultrasound of the kidneys). Although there was no history of previous kidney disease. Allocated 3 cultures of hemolytic staphylococcus (2 - urinoculture, 1 - from the nasopharynx). On June 14, 2021, it is planned to start immunization with staphylococcal vaccine.

2) A 50-year-old woman came to the clinic in April 2021. The main clinical complaints were persistent recurrent urticaria for six months and local Quincke edema on the face paraorbital (more often not symmetrically) of unknown etiology. Since November 2020, she had a low-grade fever, intoxication "shadows" under the eyes, increased fatigue, weakness, headache, dizziness, decreased cognitive functions ("head in a fog") appeared, barely performed her professional duties at work, stopped visiting gym ("no strength"). She noted intermittent reactive arthralgias in the area of the foot joints.

A diagnosis of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS was established: Staphylococcus aureus and Enterococcus fecalis were isolated from urine against the background of a normal general urine analysis, although in November 2020 Klebsiella pneumonia was isolated from urine, which was not given importance at that time.

From April 27 to May 17, 2021, the first course of immunization with staphylococcal vaccine of 7 injections was carried out. She noted positive changes in well-being after 3-4 injections. At the control examination on June 7, 2021, there were no complaints, after the start of vaccination, urticaria and Quincke's edema on the face no longer appeared. She is preparing for the second course of immunization with an autovaccine with a different set of strains.



Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS are hidden under the mask of many diagnoses and diseases and also are imitating the classically known CFS/ME. However, this is not a complete list of what can cause Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS.

Herewith, the list of symptoms of CBIS can be significant, which brings it closer to CFS / ME, or at the initial stages it can be limited to just a few dominant symptoms: prolonged subfebrile condition, febrile attacks, noticeably increased sweating with a sharp unpleasant and "indelible" smell of sweat, alopecia (see Example 7 in Report 4), joint lesions that mimic rheumatoid arthritis and gout (see Example 1 in Report 3 and Examples 9 and 10 in Report 5), isolated elevation of ESR, leukopenia, persistent lymphocytosis and neutropenia of unknown etiology (see example 12 in Report 6).

A separate and fairly large place in Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS is occupied by skin lesions, which are generally rarely associated with CFS / ME. We regard such seemingly independent nosological diagnoses as recurrent urticaria, erythema, local Quincke's edema mainly on the face, atopic dermatitis, erysipelas, eczema and many others as bacterial toxicoderma and very successfully treat them as a classic (for us!)

Manifestation of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS. We treat not as an allergy, an autoimmune or genetically determined disease, but as a manifestation of a toxic skin lesion. However, there is a significant "time" factor here. If, say, atopic dermatitis in children can be cured with a probability of up to 100%, eczema and psoriasis with a disease duration of up to 2-3 years are highly likely, then atopic dermatitis in adults who have lived with this diagnosis all their lives and received constant corresponding diagnosis, treatment, psoriasis and eczema with more than 10 years of "experience" is unlikely.

You can only fight for clinical remission, a kind of respite in this continuous war, into which a person was drawn not of his own free will, but because of an incorrect assessment of the essence and cause of his disease. The same applies to patients with a diagnosis of CFS / ME: I don’t know how much it will be possible to help “bedridden” patients and patients who have developed a disability. But even a respite in this war for each individual person can be expensive.



A few words about postcoid syndrome or "LONG Covid", the symptoms of which are very similar to CFS/ME.

Among those who had been ill in the USA, according to preliminary data, such 35%, in the UK reach 80%. In Italy, two months after the first symptoms, 87.4% of patients continued to complain of certain ailments. Almost half speaks of a sharp deterioration in the quality of life. Most often, patients with long-term coronavirus infection suffer from fatigue (more than 77%) and cognitive dysfunction (about 55%). Also, most often they complain of shortness of breath, tingling in the hands and feet, insomnia and causeless anxiety. Some are faced with conjunctivitis, prolonged, albeit low, temperature (subfebrile condition) and even hair loss.

Clinically, this reminds us of Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS, which developed / worsened after the use of antibiotics. Namely, patients with clinically manifest coronavirus infection, occurring with lung damage and included in the statistics, usually receive antibiotics. A noticeable "surge" in CFS/ME was noted back in 1957 after the pandemic outbreak of Asian influenza. One example from our clinic cannot give an answer about the causes of the "long covid". But just as the whole surrounding world is reflected in a drop of water, so a whole problem can really be reflected in one clinical example.
 
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perrier

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Thank you very much for your long presentation and answers.

Here are three points I have learned. Correct me if I am incorrect. Thank you.

1) Patients go into a sort of remission, and their symptoms subside, but they do need to return for more vaccinations because their symptoms resurface. (This must mean that the diseased cells replicate slowly and the person becomes sick again.)

2) Patients who are severe, and often bedridden cannot be helped by your protocol. I just want to make the point that many many patients have 'crashes' and then are bedridden, but do find some limited housebound mobility after coming out the crash. So, the illness is fluctuating. I wonder if you wouldn't mind clarifying this point: that the bedridden cannot be helped.

3) I was interested in your statement: "increased fatigue to exhaustion after physical or mental exertion, which lasts more than 24 hours." Most of the CFS/ME patients do not really describe 'fatigue' after exertion. They describe it as a toxic flu like feeling that envelopes them when they exert, either physically or mentally or emotionally. They are able to do thing, normal things, but they get a 'payback' for the exertion in the form of this horrible sick feeling called Post Exertional Malaise. If there are too many exertions coming one after another, this leads to a severe relapse which can last from weeks to years. Are your patients describing this too?

And a final comment: this situation is urgent. Young people are killing themselves all over the world because this condition is intolerable, and there is no medication to subdue the symptoms of PEM. I am asking you to please make a greater effort to contact the top researchers. They all have telephones. The world would honour you if indeed this protocol would work. Kyiv is a beautiful golden domed city and it is nice to go there, but patients need help in their own countries, in America, Canada and Europe. Please try to consider to contact the top researchers, or to find a way to be heard internationally. Djakuju Vam za uvahu. (Thank you for your attention to this)
 
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Hip

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3) I was interested in your statement: "increased fatigue to exhaustion after physical or mental exertion, which lasts more than 24 hours." Most of the CFS/ME patients do not really describe 'fatigue' after exertion. They describe it as a toxic flu like feeling that envelopes them when they exert, either physically or mentally or emotionally.
I think post-exertional symptoms of ME/CFS can vary from one patient to the next. The Canadian consensus criteria for ME/CFS say that one or more of the following symptoms can appear after physical or mental exertion:
  • Loss of physical and mental stamina
  • Rapid muscular and cognitive fatiguability
  • Post-exertional malaise (PEM)
  • Post-exertional fatigue
  • Worsening of many of the patient's cluster of ME/CFS symptoms
The flu-like feeling you mention comes under post-exertional malaise (in medical terminology, malaise means a general feeling of being unwell, as you might experience when you get the flu). But not all patients get this flu-like feeling.


Note: ME/CFS patients often refer to their post-exertional symptoms as PEM (post-exertional malaise), but as you can see from the above list, PEM is just one of these post-exertional symptoms. So we should really be saying our "post-exertional symptoms", which would cover everything, rather than saying our "post-exertional malaise", which really only covers the flu-like feeling.
 
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To say it very politely: Do a study because no one will read your paper except us very desperate patients. We have heard about these stories and claims a hundred times. Your case examples are worthless. Without a double-blinded placebo-controlled study you are making only cash with your clinic but doesn't contribute to serious research. And that's exactly what we need. 1/6 very severe patients, young people among them, kill themselves out of desperation. And you offer me, a severely ill patient, to send my urine to your clinic, pay you for your diagnosis, which you think is under copyright protection ((as a lawyer I tell you a secret: illnesses are generic descriptions which can't be protected by copyright laws). Then I would have to charge you for the vaccines. You think an MP would help us with delivery which is, I am sorry, ridiculous. And then, after all these questions, you do not offer replicable data.

Why won't you do a clinical trial. Please tell me!

And the alarm bells ring when someone claims that he can cure many and totally different diseases with the same treatment because there would be the same cause.

Please don't raise false hopes to those who are absolutely in need of serious research done with serious studies.

Thank you!
 
Thank you very much for your long presentation and answers. Here are three points I have learned. Correct me if I am incorrect. Thank you.

1) Patients go into a sort of remission, and their symptoms subside, but they do need to return for more vaccinations because their symptoms resurface. (This must mean that the diseased cells replicate slowly and the person becomes sick again).
Answer: The period of treatment on average can take from six months to 2-3 years. If symptoms of ME/CFS-CBIS reappear after 7-10 years, it is not a relapse, it is a new episode caused by new bacteria. And if you fight it with autovaccines immediately, and not after a few years, then as a rule 1 vaccination cycle (2-3 courses) is enough.



2) Patients who are severe, and often bedridden cannot be helped by your protocol. I just want to make the point that many many patients have 'crashes' and then are bedridden, but do find some limited housebound mobility after coming out the crash. So, the illness is fluctuating. I wonder if you wouldn't mind clarifying this point: that the bedridden cannot be helped.
It all depends on the diagnosis, which "bedridden" the patient. After all, ME/CFS-CBIS in its "pure" form (even if a person does not have the strength to get out of bed, walk along the street on his own, bring a spoon to his mouth, comb his hair, brush his teeth, etc.) can be fully rehabilitated. Moreover, it is possible to "put on their feet" and even return to normal life patients with such diagnoses derived from ME/CFS-CBIS as reactive arthritis, severe toxic dermatitis, phobic conditions, depression and panic attacks, etc. Please send some specific extracts from the disease histories so that it would be possible to answer more definitely.



3) I was interested in your statement: "increased fatigue to exhaustion after physical or mental exertion, which lasts more than 24 hours." Most of the CFS/ME patients do not really describe 'fatigue' after exertion. They describe it as a toxic flu like feeling that envelopes them when they exert, either physically or mentally or emotionally. They are able to do thing, normal things, but they get a 'payback' for the exertion in the form of this horrible sick feeling called Post Exertional Malaise. If there are too many exertions coming one after another, this leads to a severe relapse which can last from weeks to years. Are your patients describing this too?
When I was young, I could stay awake for 48 hours or more (night duty in the newborn's intensive care unit, my beloved girls, fishing) and fully recovered after 10-12 hours of full sleep. After elementary physical, mental or emotional stress (including both negative and positive) my patients with Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS during several hours cannot return to a normal feeling of their physical and mental state after 24 or more hours of good rest.

The words of your patients "toxic flu" are fully consistent with the words of my patients: "I was as if poisoned." And "malaise after exertions" my patients describe as "the full exhaustion after ordinary work." This condition really lasts from several months to several years. Many patients in this state take an academic pause at the university, leave from work at their own expense, or simply quit their jobs and do not leave home for months.



And a final comment: this situation is urgent. Young people are killing themselves all over the world because this condition is intolerable, and there is no medication to subdue the symptoms of PEM. I am asking you to please make a greater effort to contact the top researchers. They all have telephones. The world would honour you if indeed this protocol would work. Kyiv is a beautiful golden domed city and it is nice to go there, but patients need help in their own countries, in America, Canada and Europe. Please try to consider to contact the top researchers, or to find a way to be heard internationally. Djakuju Vam za uvahu. (Thank you for your attention to this)
In connection with PEM (malaise after exertion), which is one of the typical conditions that characterize ME/CFS-CBIS, really often arises a hopeless situation in which the sick person finds himself. I call this state a triple dead end: diagnostic - there is no diagnosis, therapeutic - treatment does not help and vital - I am young, happy, beautiful, successful, but I die from an unknown diagnosis / disease and no one can help me.

In this physically and psychologically terrible state, more than a quarter of adult patients (655/2340 or 28%) and even 1.4% (12/870) of school-age children had suicidal thoughts and an unwillingness to live like this (see Example 5 in Report 4 “CBIS under the mask of CFS/ME” published by the 8Th Intern.Congress for Infectious Diseases, Febr.15-16, 2021, London, UK: https://www.longdom.org/proceedings...n-syndrome-under-the-mask-of-cfsme-59051.html ; pdf./HTML, p.32-116).

Actually we have saved lives for many patients with ME/CFS-CBIS, which, prior to treatment, considered their lives as worthless. In this you are right.

But a paradoxical situation arose. For about 2-2,5 months now, we have been knocking on different doors of various organizations around the world, which, according to their status, are obliged to deal with problems related to ME/CFS, namely: ME Assosiation, Action for M.E., Solve for ME/CFS, ME Vereniging in the Netherlands, CDC and National Institutes of Health in the USA (the peer review is possible only in case of investigator-initiated grant process, but we are not asking for any money), participated in chat on #MillionsMissing on annual ME/CFS-day and the 1st EFNA/EMEA roundtable Meeting - ME/CFS in Europe – till the moment being there are only formal answers.

Markov Clinic is open for any questions and collaboratively for any authoritative expertise of findings or, the best way, clinically to diagnose (correctly speaking: re-diagnose) a pilot group (e.g. 50-100 patients with ME/CFS) on ME/CFS-CBIS, if any, and to treat them till the full convalescence with the follow-up observation, either in Kyiv or somewhere else.

It's a shame to tears. Therefore, we are increasingly convinced that without the active participation of patient, e.g. through PETITION, as it was made years ago by M.E. patient Mirande de Rijke calling on the Dutch government to treat M.E. seriously: https://www.actionforme.org.uk/news/significant-me-research-proposal-in-the-netherlands/ , we are unlikely to be able to overcome this wall of silence.



I think post-exertional symptoms of ME/CFS can vary from one patient to the next. The Canadian consensus criteria for ME/CFS say that one or more of the following symptoms can appear after physical or mental exertion:
  • Loss of physical and mental stamina
  • Rapid muscular and cognitive fatiguability
  • Post-exertional malaise (PEM)
  • Post-exertional fatigue
  • Worsening of many of the patient's cluster of ME/CFS symptoms
The flu-like feeling you mention comes under post-exertional malaise (in medical terminology, malaise means a general feeling of being unwell, as you might experience when you get the flu). But not all patients get this flu-like feeling.

Note: ME/CFS patients often refer to their post-exertional symptoms as PEM (post-exertional malaise), but as you can see from the above list, PEM is just one of these post-exertional symptoms. So we should really be saying our "post-exertional symptoms", which would cover everything, rather than saying our "post-exertional malaise", which really only covers the flu-like feeling.
For me, as an infectious diseases specialist and a person who has repeatedly had the flu in the past and researched some years in the specialized flu-department of Kyiv’s Infectious Institute, it is difficult to agree that PEM can be compared to a flu-like state. The flu is an infectious tsunami with a high temperature and a flurry of intoxication that literally knocks a person off their feet.

But PEM is like a flood during a rain or a cyclone, when all the streets are flooded with a monotonous boiling stream of muddy water that carries away everything in its path. Both during a tsunami and during a flood, there is a threat to life. In case of ME/CFS-CBIS this threat is connected to severe intoxication, which each patient suffers in his own way: easily, hard, catastrophically on the verge of suicide.



How would your auto vaccines work on c. pneumonie if a person is positive to this as well can you make an auto vaccine against this? If you can I may be able to help you in your research progress further
We are very interested in helping to advance our research. But we have not yet learned how to make a vaccine from Chlamydia pneumoniae. Although we have been thinking about this for a long time. This villain does not grow on nutrient media, but all our autovaccines are obtained by the culture method (bacteria cultures are grown on nutrient media).

However, in our practice, very often there were cases when a banal bacterial microflora was hidden behind the screen of pulmonary chlamydia and pulmonary mycoplasma. In these cases, it is possible to achieve a noticeable positive clinical effect using autovaccines, without prescribing antibiotics for chlamydia.

Thank you, Dear Forum.PhoenixRising-Members, for participation in our explanations.
Together we’ll overcome difficulties.




Martin aka paused//M.E., at 6:41 PM, June 12:
- Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome© (CBIS) and Nephrodysbacteriosis© - copyright non-property personal right to title of the diseases.

- 12-years (2009-2021) systematic scientific examination/observation of abt.4500 patients w/ symptomes of ME/CFS, 4288 patients treated, 3975 of them with full convalescence during the follow-up observation,
strict clinical, bacteriological & toxicological examinations, developed differential diagnostics of ME/CFS-CBIS, abt. 150 pages of scientific reports on ME/CFS-CBIS etc. etc.
Is this not serious studies ?!

- Many clinical (more than 70) symptomes of ME/CFS-CBIS, diagnosed usually (before us) as different diseases – yes, but they really have one focus of chronic bacterial infections in the kidneys, to be treated by one therapeutic means – by autovaccines.

And else: we do not try to convince all ME/CFS-patients to follow our findings ME/CFS-CBIS and recommendations on treatment, simply we give the opportunity to those who want, being right diagnosed and treated, to return to a normal life.
 
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perrier

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@Hip raises an interesting point above regarding how Markov work might be of interest to Dr Phair. I only want to know why does Dr Markov not contact Dr Phair. The latter is a gentleman par excellence and will answer. For crying out loud, can't there be more coordinated movement, if indeed the clinic in Kyiv has something of worth. Thank you
 
@Hip raises an interesting point above regarding how Markov work might be of interest to Dr Phair. I only want to know why does Dr Markov not contact Dr Phair. The latter is a gentleman par excellence and will answer. For crying out loud, can't there be more coordinated movement, if indeed the clinic in Kyiv has something of worth. Thank you
have you contacts to Dr.Phair ?



To say it very politely: Do a study because no one will read your paper except us very desperate patients. We have heard about these stories and claims a hundred times. Your case examples are worthless. Without a double-blinded placebo-controlled study you are making only cash with your clinic but doesn't contribute to serious research. And that's exactly what we need. 1/6 very severe patients, young people among them, kill themselves out of desperation. And you offer me, a severely ill patient, to send my urine to your clinic, pay you for your diagnosis, which you think is under copyright protection ((as a lawyer I tell you a secret: illnesses are generic descriptions which can't be protected by copyright laws). Then I would have to charge you for the vaccines. You think an MP would help us with delivery which is, I am sorry, ridiculous. And then, after all these questions, you do not offer replicable data.

Why won't you do a clinical trial. Please tell me!

And the alarm bells ring when someone claims that he can cure many and totally different diseases with the same treatment because there would be the same cause.

Please don't raise false hopes to those who are absolutely in need of serious research done with serious studies.

Thank you!
forgot to answer yesterday regarding clinical trial for autovaccines:

already we’ve posted these explanations on Forums. Once more: they are made from autostrains of own patient's bacteria, therefore they may be unlimited used for individual treatment and, important: for them is not necessary any double blind placebo clinical trial (by the way, such a trial is necessary for industrial/massive production of vaccines and their on market introduction; autovaccines may be used unlimited individually "from a patient - to this patient").



How would your auto vaccines work on c. pneumonie if a person is positive to this as well can you make an auto vaccine against this? If you can I may be able to help you in your research progress further
additionally regarding our VACCINES: as we reported, autovaccines may be unlimited used for individual treatment (individually "from a patient - to this patient", for them is not necessary any double blind placebo clinical trial). With such vaccines we’ve already treated upto convalescence more than 20.000 patients w/ chronic bacterial infections, incl. ME/CFS-CBIS.

But for wide use (in every country where there’re patients w/ ME/CFS and to provide free access to treatment without contacting our clinic as for autovaccines) it’s necessary bacterial vaccines (naturally, after double blind placebo clinical trial according to the routine protocol and introduction) made in a way of industrial/massive production.

And such bacterial vaccines for a wide range of bacteria in the kidneys, causing ME/CFS-CBIS, we’ve invented!, namely:

9 bioconjugated bacterial cultural vaccines series PrimaVac™ (Thiomersal free) as a result of 25-years our clinical experience, for preventive immunization and treatment of acute and chronic diseases of bacterial etiology, incl.ME/CFS-CBIS, namely:

- the first high efficient single in the world natural cultural "Inactivated liquid Staphylococcal vaccine, methods for its manufacture and treatment and prevention by its" (patent Ukraine, UA 121358 С2 dd. 12.05.2020).

Multi-antigen Staphylo-Primavac® vaccine consists of natural cultural antigen material (namely: complex of antigens and waste products of bacteria) from clinical strains, isolated from adult patients and children, of St.aureus, St.haemolyticus and St.epidermidis - for prevention and therapy of diseases of Staphylococcal etiology

as well as

- “Ecoprimavac Escerichia- and Enterococcus-based inactivated liquid vaccine against E.coli and enterocci, method for production thereof, and method of treatment and prophylaxis using same” (see WO/2020/139311 dd.2.7.2020, https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/ru/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020139311 ).

Ecoprimavac Escerichia- and Enterococcus-vaccine® is made according to the same bacterial cultural vaccine principle as Staphylo-Primavac® vaccine and can be prescribed for immunization against Extraintestinal Pathogenic Escherichia coli (ExPEC) that is responsible for most urinary tract infections (UTIs), for treatment of ME/CFS-CBIS (Chronic bacterial intoxication syndrome) hidden under the mask of CFS/ME and for immunization and treatment of many other diseases caused by extraintestinal enterobacteria (including ExPEC) and enterococci of any localization,

- and else other 7 vaccines.

During 12 years of work with cultures of bacteria that cause Nephrodysbacteriosis/CBIS, we have isolated, patented, deposited and stored in the National Depository of Ukraine 92 strains of various bacteria. The effectiveness of such vaccines, according to our data, is not inferior to autovaccines, and sometimes even exceeds them due to a wider spectrum of antigens of bacterial cells collected in one medicine.

But today the question is in another: we carried out and paid for all patent services in Ukraine and an international search, which confirmed the novelty, inventive level and industrial applicability of our 9 bacterial cultural vaccines series PrimaVac™, isolated previously from autostrains in clinical conditions.

On June 28, 2021, the 30 months, allotted for the international patenting of these 9 vaccines in other countries, expire. The cost of such patenting (thousands US$, depending on selected countries) for our clinic is unaffordable amount.

Therefore we search urgently for collaboration for this item.
 
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Hip

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Dr Igor Markov, a question for you:

On the Phoenix Rising scale of ME/CFS severity (shown below), what is the typical severity of the ME/CFS patients that you treat with the autovaccine?

Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Severity and Level of Activity Scale

0 — VERY SEVERE: Bedridden constantly, except to go to bathroom.

1 — SEVERE: Bedridden most of day, very rarely leave house.
2 — SEVERE: Leave house once a week, concentrate 1 hour a day.

3 — MODERATE: Leave house several times per week, 2 hours work/activity a day.
4 — MODERATE: 3 to 4 hours work/activity a day.
5 — MODERATE: 4 to 5 hours work/activity a day.

6 — MILD: 6 to 7 hours activity a day, able to do a part-time job.
7 — MILD: Able to do a full-time job but with difficulty.
8 — MILD: Near-normal life activity level, but still symptomatic.

9 — RECOVERY: Normal life activity level, mild symptoms.
10 — RECOVERY: Fully recovered, or in full remission.
 
To @HTester :
Dear Prof.Robert Phair,
glad to contact you, many years combating ME/CFS.

What do you think about findings of Dr.-med. Igor Markov, Kyiv, Ukraine, that the true nature/origin of ME/CFS has been discovered and as a result of 12-year (2009-2021) systematic clinical studies (observed 4500 patients w/ CFS/ME, adults&children) it’s found a diagnostic-therapeutical solution to its problem:
under the mask of mysterious pandemic ME/CFS in more than in 95% cases of ME/CFS hides a new previously unknown disease/diagnosis Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome© (CBIS),
outlined in the work "Chronic Bacterial Intoxication Syndrome under the mask of CFS/ME" (the whole work consists of Reports 1-9: Reports 1-6 “CBIS… Clinical Diagnosis” published at the 8th International Congress on Infectious Diseases (Febr.15-16, 2021, London,UK): https://www.longdom.org/proceedings...n-syndrome-under-the-mask-of-cfsme-59051.html ; pdf./HTML, p.32-116).
There are Reports 7, 8, 9 on Bacteriological, Toxicological diagnosis & Treatment; archived patients’ disease histories and other clinical docs.

Available is all-inclusive clinical diagnostics ME/CFS-CBIS and treatment w/ mono-/bi-/poly-valent autovaccines without traditional prescribing of antibiotics w/ full convalescence/recovery, proven on 4288 patients w/ efficacy upto 92.7% depending on disease duration & previous cure.
The findings confirm that CBIS is the clinical manifestation of a focus of chronic bacterial infection in the kidneys, confirmed clinically, bacteriologically and toxicologically.

This clinically locally asymptomatic latent focus of chronic bacterial infection in the kidneys (Nephrodysbacteriosis© ) is due to a post-antibiotic disorder of local immunity of the kidneys mucous membranes in more than 90% of children&adults w/ ME/CFS-CBIS after over-use of antibiotics (often - beginning from childhood, especially by repeated and long courses).

As a result of the vital activity of bacteria, endo- and exotoxins are released & persisted in the kidneys for years. It leads to development of endotoxicosis & severe general intoxication of organism w/ toxic damage to various organs and systems and to the subsequent development of ME/CFS-CBIS w/ more than 70 clinical symptoms its manifestation.

In connection with the COVID-19 pandemic, it should be forecasted and expected a sharp explosive increase of cases of exacerbation or primary diagnosing of ME/CFS-CBIS which will mistakenly pass under the mask of post-infectious or post-Covid asthenia (weakness) and of so called LONG-COVID. This should be expected mainly after severe forms of coronavirus infection in patients, who were prescribed massive and long-term courses of antibiotics use, with the subsequent development or exacerbation of their post-antibiotic Nephrodysbacteriosis and CBIS.

We assess that LONG-COVID w/ ME/CFS-symptoms in more than 90% of cases is due to Nephrodysbacteriosis that causes ME/CFS-CBIS.

All our clinical results (on clinical+bacteriological+toxicological diagnosis) are absolutely replicable.

We are open for any questions and collaboratively for any authoritative expertise of findings and appropriate clinical trial according to accepted trial protocols under supervision of appointed specialists, as well as we're ready to re-diagnose&treat a pilot group of patients w/ ME/CFS into ME/CFS-CBIS, if any.

Sincerely yours,
Forums-Member: MECFS-MysteryNoMore-CBIS
 
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What percentage of healthy controls test positive for bacteria in urine using your culture methods?
Control group No. 1 bacteriological examination of warm urine (three times, 3 days in a row) consisted of 205 clinically healthy infants (from 3 to 12 months), who were brought to the clinic for a routine prophylactic vaccination, and 70 healthy adults (women - 30 or 42, 9%, men - 40 or 57.1%) aged 20 to 65 years - control group No. 2 (see Report 7 “CBIS…Bacteriological diagnosis”).

Infants for the control bacteriological examination of warm urine were not chosen by chance. For many years, Dr.-med.Igor Markov’s clinics have been conducting routine preventive vaccinations for children only after their thorough laboratory examination, which includes the obligatory bacteriological examination of warm urine.

This was began to do after bacteriological examination of urine of 115 clinically healthy children, more often infants, who at the previous stages of seeking medical help in other clinics gave a high temperature reaction after a planned vaccination on the administration to them of a wonderful multivalent vaccine against 6 infections of a well-known European manufacturer, which is most often used in Ukraine. In 112/115 (97.4%) cases, various bacteria were isolated from the urine, which indicated that an increase in temperature occurred against the background of Nephrodysbacteriosis with typical signs of a febrile attack (see Report 1 “CBIS…Clinical diagnosis”), provoked by bacterial toxins of general-toxic action after the administration of the vaccine.

The results of the examination of the 2 control groups are as follows:

Among children of the control group No.1, Nephrodysbacteriosis was found in 110/205 cases (53.7%), which was considered as a kind of "payment for diapers".

Among adults of the control group No.2, positive results of warm urine examination were found in 5/70 (7.1%) cases, that significantly differed from the results of bacteriological examination of warm urine in patients with a diagnosis of ME/CFS-CBIS.

We have a clear idea that the bacteriological "basis" of the future disease ME/CFS-CBIS is often laid even in early childhood. And subsequent clinical manifestations are associated with the sum of various provoking factors, among which antibiotics undoubtedly occupy the main place. We are sure that children, whom we have immunized several times with bacterial autovaccines against Nephrodysbacteriosis, are much more likely not to get sick in adulthood with ME/CFS-CBIS.
 
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Hip

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Among adults of the control group No.2, positive results of warm urine examination were found in 5/70 (7.1%) cases, that significantly differed from the results of bacteriological examination of warm urine in patients with a diagnosis of ME/CFS-CBIS.
OK, that is good evidence that a nephrodysbacteriosis kidney infection is much more common in ME/CFS patients compared to healthy controls.
 
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Dr Igor Markov, a question for you:

On the Phoenix Rising scale of ME/CFS severity (shown below), what is the typical severity of the ME/CFS patients that you treat with the autovaccine?

Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Severity and Level of Activity Scale

0 — VERY SEVERE: Bedridden constantly, except to go to bathroom.

1 — SEVERE: Bedridden most of day, very rarely leave house.
2 — SEVERE: Leave house once a week, concentrate 1 hour a day.

3 — MODERATE: Leave house several times per week, 2 hours work/activity a day.
4 — MODERATE: 3 to 4 hours work/activity a day.
5 — MODERATE: 4 to 5 hours work/activity a day.

6 — MILD: 6 to 7 hours activity a day, able to do a part-time job.
7 — MILD: Able to do a full-time job but with difficulty.
8 — MILD: Near-normal life activity level, but still symptomatic.

9 — RECOVERY: Normal life activity level, mild symptoms.
10 — RECOVERY: Fully recovered, or in full remission.
According to the policy of our clinic, we diagnose for ME/CFS-CBIS and, if any, treat all patients upto, incl., 0 — VERY SEVERE: Bedridden constantly, except to go to bathroom (as per Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Severity and Level of Activity Scale).



Dear Forums-Members,

As we posted at June 13, 5:55 PM:

On June 28, 2021, expire the 30 months, allotted for the international patenting in other countries of Dr.-med.Igor Markov’s, 9 bacterial cultural vaccines patented in Ukraine, to be produced industrially at the appropriate pharmaceutical companies.

Most of them are for massive [large-scale] treatment of patients w/ ME/CFS-CBIS in their countries without preparing autovaccines (i.e. instead of autovaccines, prepared individually).


As we wrote to Aidan Walsh, at June 13, 5:55 PM:

We search urgently for collaboration for this international patenting. Till June 28-29, this thread instead of Dr.Oleg Markov as Communications will be observed&administered by co-author Dr.-med.Artem Markov w/ possible posts.

Still we’re waiting for response of Dr.Phair on our question and for urgent proposals for collaboration for international patenting, as already mentioned.

Thank you once more for your interest in our findings.
 
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Hip you are the prince of princes, thanks. But I am a computer dunce. I just need an email address to the Markov team. I need to send something to them.
Dear Perrier, till June 28, me, Dr.Oleg Markov, Communications&Moderator, is accessible urgently per direct Email: olegmarkovj7 [at] gmail [dot] com , thank you.
 
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