ME/CFS/FM recovery story on HR - Famvir, celebrex - Dr. Skip Pridgen

[Hip]

It would be interesting to know potencies and efficacies in terms of celebrex vs the traditional extracts mentioned. In my experience it's all about potency. @Hip I don't suppose any of these appeared in your pharmalogical calc research last year?

Do you mean Celebrex vs propolis for COX inhibition?

I looked into this about 7 years ago, but did not calculate the pharmacokinetics of propolis (because back then I did not know how to do such calculations).

Caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE) found in propolis is a potent COX-2 inhibitor in vitro, but without doing a pharmacokinetic calculation, I am not sure if you can get sufficient blood levels of CAPE to make it effective. CAPE is described as having poor bioavailability, so that do not bode well, as it means it may be hard to get sufficient blood levels, unless you take very high doses.


Also, and even greater issue with propolis is that whereas most NSAID drugs simultaneously inhibit COX-1 and COX-2, the CAPE contained in propolis only inhibits COX-2.

This is good from the stomach ulcer/perforation perspective, because inhibiting both COX-1 and COX-2 increases the chances of COX inhibitor stomach ulcer/perforation.

However, from what I could work out, inhibiting only COX-2 rather than both COX-1 and COX-2 together greatly weakens the antiviral effect of COX inhibition

One study found that inhibition of either COX-1 or COX-2 alone caused a moderate reduction of pseudorabies virus growth (30-fold reduction), but when both COX-1 and COX-2 were inhibited simultaneously, pseudorabies virus yields were dramatically reduced (greater than a 200,000-fold reduction).

Note that the pseudorabies virus which the researchers studied is similar to herpes simplex.

So this suggests that even if you could overcome the low bioavailability of propolis, it still would not have a useful antiviral effect against herpes simplex, as propolis only targets COX-2.



In terms of trying to avoid the stomach ulcer/perforation issue of NSAIDS like Celebrex, obviously proton pump inhibitor drugs are the normal choice.

But vitamin C protects against aspirin-induced gastric damage also. 1 1

And grape seed extract protects against aspirin-induced gastric damage just as well as vitamin C does (but GSE has a long half life, so it may give you all day protection). 1

Whether this protection against aspirin extends to other NSAIDS like Celebrex, I am not sure, but it seems likely.


Another approach to avoiding the stomach ulcer/perforation risk of Celebrex is to take this drug transdermally. One study found that Celebrex is effective transdermally.

There is a transdermal product called Delivra-Celecoxib 8% Cream.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Hi Hip,

Thanks for the reply. Yes Celebrex and Propolis I was wondering about.

Thanks for this, very interesting writeup. Sounds like Propolis as you say just has a very low bioavailability.

Is this cream prescription only? Celebrex as a cream would be a good way to go, I wasn't actually aware of the potential gastro symptoms. I have been suffering with this of late, keeps waking me up at night and I end up in agony. No idea why but I just think it's a stress reflex. The cream might be ideal, as an asthmatic I haven't got access to any anti inflammatories (tried them all). Apart from andrographis. So this might be helpful.

Thanks Hip,

 

[Hip]

Sounds like Propolis as you say just has a very low bioavailability.

Plus even worse, propolis only inhibits COX-2, which hugely weakens its antiviral effect compared to Celebrex, which inhibits both COX-1 and COX-2.

I don't know much about that Celebrex cream, only just saw it now by Google searching. But some years ago I tried crushing a Celebrex tablet into fine powder, then applying the powder to a large area of skin on my legs, with a few drops of water added after to help absorption. Unfortunately I have no way of measuring how much was absorbed.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Ah I see, I had a look on a pharmacy but couldn't see much, still might be there somewhere. I see the research paper you found though, the cream does look interesting!

Yes sounds like cox1 and 2 are the way to go.

 

[heapsreal]

Plus even worse, propolis only inhibits COX-2, which hugely weakens its antiviral effect compared to Celebrex, which inhibits both COX-1 and COX-2.

I don't know much about that Celebrex cream, only just saw it now by Google searching. But some years ago I tried crushing a Celebrex tablet into fine powder, then applying the powder to a large area of skin on my legs, with a few drops of water added after to help absorption. Unfortunately I have no way of measuring how much was absorbed.

Try putting dmso on skin first and then adding celebrex. Dmso you can get in like a rollon which is easy to use. With a knee injury and too much inflammation ive use dmso and a cortisone cream with good effects.