Me/cfs and methylene blue

[Garz]

I'm back to trying it again but at a miniscule dose. If my blood pressure rises again I will try a herbal remedy to lower it. So I started with one drop in a glass of orange juice, and drank one quarter of it. That's pretty low. I took it in orange juice - a tip from the Ray Peat forum. I will take a dose once every two days.

sorry to hear of your troubles

many people in the lyme and associated diseases community have this type of ultra sensitivity to anything antimicrobial (like Methylene blue).

as above - effective doses for infection are much much higher
i am moderately sensitive and had to start on 10mg / day - and gradually ramp up to 120mg / day over some months

if you are ultra sensitive you will likely find it very hard to get to even nootropic doses.

in many people with these infections ( I do not know if your case is due to infections so just providing information) they find that their strong reaction symptoms are driven my MCAS that is caused by the infection and that they need to get this under control before they can effectively treat the infection with antimicrobials.

people find a combination of MCAS stabilisers, low histamine diets, antihistamine drugs and brain retraining exercises helpful for that

 

[brenda]

Thank you @Garz

Yes I do have Lyme, and MCAS and high histamine. I gave up trying to treat Lyme a while back but have been getting back to it with Cats Claw and hopefully soon Rife. Maybe I should stop the MB till then. It was just the HBP that concerned me.

 

[Garz]

surges in blood pressure - either gradually increasing over time
or sudden erratic surges for no apparent reason are both common in this population

are you receiving treatment for your blood pressure ?
are you monitoring it at home?

the reason i ask is that its not unusual for this to increase during treatment - so you may need treatment to keep it under control during lyme treatment.

there are others with this in our Lyme forum who may be able to give advice on what has helped them

the forum is just undergoing some maintenance right now but should be up in a day or two
https://www.healingwell.com/community/lyme-disease-30/

 

[brenda]

surges in blood pressure - either gradually increasing over time
or sudden erratic surges for no apparent reason are both common in this population

are you receiving treatment for your blood pressure ?
are you monitoring it at home?

the reason i ask is that its not unusual for this to increase during treatment - so you may need treatment to keep it under control during lyme treatment.

there are others with this in our Lyme forum who may be able to give advice on what has helped them

the forum is just undergoing some maintenance right now but should be up in a day or two
https://www.healingwell.com/community/lyme-disease-30/

Thank you for your interest and the link. I refuse all pharmaceuticals so no and yes I monitor it at home but have not done for a few weeks. Must do it soon. Recently I quit all grains and dairy and hope that will help with inflammation.

 

[Garz]

Thank you for your interest and the link. I refuse all pharmaceuticals so no and yes I monitor it at home but have not done for a few weeks. Must do it soon. Recently I quit all grains and dairy and hope that will help with inflammation.

i understand, each persons treatment choices are a very personal decision

i also tried herbal only approaches for 3 years - including every herb in the updated stephen buhner protocol for lyme in his second edition healing lyme book - and all of his co-infection herbs at high doses on top of that at the same time

i think it helped a little - but was not enough to get me well and i was still at less than 50% of my former abilities - regarding work or physical activity after 3 years of continuous high dose herbal treatment.

this is why i am now using antibiotics in a pulse protocol

i also found removing grains helpful
in fact in my own case, and that of my fiancé who was suffering the same symptoms,
changing to a wholefood ketogenic diet was the first step in recovery and this made probably the biggest single step forward after that - as we had lots of gut issues before this - and they tended to drive systemic symptoms like fatigue as well.

for me progress has been more about overhauling every part of my life to give my body the best possible chance to fight off this thing - so

• changing my diet completely
• overhauling my sleep
• managing my stress levels
• an exercise regime

so its not just been about antimicrobials

i wish you every success with your journey through this very challenging disease

 

[brenda]

i understand, each persons treatment choices are a very personal decision

i also tried herbal only approaches for 3 years - including every herb in the updated stephen buhner protocol for lyme in his second edition healing lyme book - and all of his co-infection herbs at high doses on top of that at the same time

i think it helped a little - but was not enough to get me well and i was still at less than 50% of my former abilities - regarding work or physical activity after 3 years of continuous high dose herbal treatment.

this is why i am now using antibiotics in a pulse protocol

i also found removing grains helpful
in fact in my own case, and that of my fiancé who was suffering the same symptoms,
changing to a wholefood ketogenic diet was the first step in recovery and this made probably the biggest single step forward after that - as we had lots of gut issues before this - and they tended to drive systemic symptoms like fatigue as well.

for me progress has been more about overhauling every part of my life to give my body the best possible chance to fight off this thing - so

• changing my diet completely
• overhauling my sleep
• managing my stress levels
• an exercise regime

so its not just been about antimicrobials

i wish you every success with your journey through this very challenging disease

Thank you so much for that. Very interesting. I have tried many diets - raw vegan, macrobiotic, keto and the rest. This time it was out of desperation having suffered interstitial cystitis for a year. Giving up grains cured that immediately. I have not used medications for about 20 years or so having found I do not tolerate them, even one paracetamol for pain so it has been natural remedies.

I consulted a top German Lyme doc who gave me a herbal mix and I reacted to it but not with herxing. My system tolerates little. That is when I looked into rife but did not have a lot of success and found out that I need to do a scan to find which freqs to use but have had problems with my equipment but hope to get back soon.

I found that cleaning up my diet, clothing and household chemicals made a big difference. I have a hospital grade air filter. This past year with the cystitis I lost the will to live because of the stress of moving but am back in fight mode thank goodness.

I was poisoned with mercury as a baby (teething powders) and then a huge exposure to pesticide at age 40. At my worst I was bedbound and unable to even turn on the taps with the chemicals outgassing. Then Lyme on top of all of that.

I am looking forward to trying that forum out many thanks.

 

[Garz]

the forum is due to be back up and running on the 20th
its very welcoming of new members - let me know if you have any issues getting on after that

 

[Ski_again]

There's a direct explanation for why methylene blue might raise blood pressure acutely. Nitric Oxide produced in the blood vessels creates something called cGMP, which causes the vessels to relax, and this normal process is very quick and transient. MB inhibits the production of cGMP (or NO, or both?), and therefore is actually used in medical situations where excessive vasodilation is causing some acute problem, such as sepsis or low cardiac output after heart surgery, to help constrict blood vessels.

Happy biohacking everyone.

 

[Garz]

There's a direct explanation for why methylene blue might raise blood pressure acutely. Nitric Oxide produced in the blood vessels creates something called cGMP, which causes the vessels to relax, and this normal process is very quick and transient. MB inhibits the production of cGMP (or NO, or both?), and therefore is actually used in medical situations where excessive vasodilation is causing some acute problem, such as sepsis or low cardiac output after heart surgery, to help constrict blood vessels.

Happy biohacking everyone.

its likely a dose dependent effect

i am taking 120mg a day and my BP is normal 113/76 at rest - so i imagine this is likely only a noticeable effect at higher doses

i think the OP is taking only extremely small doses - i drop of MB solution in orange juice - so at these microgram doses its very unlikely to have a direct effect on NO pathways

MCAS reactions could send BP spiking upwards

 

[Ski_again]

That makes sense. Agreed that very small doses should be fine (unless she reports that it is causal and repeatable).

In my opinion, a high sugar diet is a more likely explanation for high blood pressure, through the uric acid pathway. Here's an interesting interview about it with Rick Johnson, the author of a couple books on the topic.
https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/
A uric acid blood test is a cheap and easy way to see if this is causing the problem.