• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Malic Acid: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia Connection

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,276
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I've recently been doing a fair amount of research on the health benefits of malic acid as I prepare to do a liver/gallbladder flush. Part of the protcol is to drink a LOT of apple juice in the days prior to the flush, so that the malic acid in the juice can begin to soften and loosen any liver/gallbladder stones. I don't do well with concentrated sugars like fruit juice, but discovered that I could substitute malic acid capsules instead. So far, my body seems to like it. In my research, I found the following reference to malic acid and CFS:

Malic Acid: The Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia Connection
One of its most significant benefits lies in its ability to stimulate metabolism and increase energy production. This action is linked to the important role it plays in a process known as the Krebs cycle – named after Sir Hans Krebs, a German-born British biochemist.

Krebs won the Nobel price for physiology in 1953 for describing how a complex series of biochemical reactions takes place within the body’s cells to transform proteins, fat and carbohydrates into water and energy. This process requires a constant supply of vitamins, enzymes and chemical agents such as malic acid, in order to keep it functioning properly 24 hours a day.

The Krebs cycle is vital to our very existence and without it energy production would literally grind to a halt. Therefore it is essential that you have adequate supplies of malic acid in order to promote the efficient functioning of this cycle.

Malic acid plays a vital role in improving overall muscle performance, reversing muscle fatigue following exercise, reducing tiredness and poor energy levels, as well as improving mental clarity. These actions can make it a beneficial treatment for sufferers of fibromyalgia and CFS (both these conditions involve muscle pain, joint tenderness and low energy levels).

According to Dr Jay Goldstein, Director of the CFS Institute in the US: ‘Malic acid is safe, inexpensive and it should be considered a valid therapeutic approach for patients with CFS’.

A six-month study was conducted by scientists working at the Department of Medicine, University of Texas Health Science Centre in the US, to examine the efficacy of 1,200mg of malic acid plus 300mg of magnesium a day on 24 fibromyalgia sufferers. Half of the patients were given the active treatment, while the other half only received placebo.

At the end of the study, all of the patients treated with malic acid and magnesium experienced significant improvements in their symptoms – including less pain, reduced muscle stiffness and a more positive mental outlook – without any side effects.

Dr Russell, who led the team of scientists, concluded: ‘The data suggest that malic acid and magnesium are safe and may be beneficial in the treatment of patients with fibromyalgia. Future studies should use malic acid at this dose and continue the therapy for at least two months’.

Malic Acid: A diverse range of benefits

In addition to increasing energy levels, malic acid is also an effective metal chelator. This means it is able to bind to potentially toxic metals that may have accumulated in the body, such as aluminium or lead, and inactivate them. As a result, the risk of toxicity is considerably reduced. Heavy metal overload has been linked to serious problems like liver disease and brain disorders like Alzheimer’s disease.

Malic acid also helps maintain oral hygiene. It stimulates the production of saliva, which reduces the number of harmful bacteria circulating in your mouth, teeth and gums. It acts as an antiseptic too, which also helps to ensure that germs in the mouth are kept to a minimum and considerably reduces the risk of infection. This explains why malic acid is commonly used as an ingredient in mouthwashes and toothpastes.

To add to the list of benefits, malic acid also helps to maintain good, healthy skin. It is classified as an ‘alpha hydroxy acid’ – a chemical term used to describe fruit acids that are used in many cosmetics because of their ability to help exfoliate the skin and act as mild chemical face peels. This helps your skin to look healthier, younger and firmer. For a natural face peel you can apply thin slices of apple (which is a rich natural source) directly onto your skin for 20 minutes and then wash off with rose water.

Malic Acid: What to take for best results

The recommended dosage for malic acid is 600mg capsules taken one to three times a day before food. There are no known contraindications or toxicity linked to malic acid.

Taking magnesium alongside malic acid seems to have a much more pronounced effect on muscle fatigue. The recommended dosage for magnesium citrate is 140mg capsules taken twice a day.
 
Last edited:

helen1

Senior Member
Messages
1,033
Location
Canada
Hi Wayne
How about taking magnesium malate? I think you get quite a lot of malic acid with that.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,276
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Hi Wayne
How about taking magnesium malate? I think you get quite a lot of malic acid with that.

Hi Helen, I take magnesium malate, but only occasionally. Though I seem to do "OK" with it, it does tend to make me feel sort of "heavy". Haven't experienced anything like that with the malic acid capsules (800 mg 3x/day).
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
In around 2000-2 I tried malic acid by accident in something I ate. I felt a huge surge of energy the first few times, then nothing.

Dealing with kidney stones traditionally involved lemon juice iirc. I have no idea if this is relevant to gall bladder stones though.
 

Sea

Senior Member
Messages
1,286
Location
NSW Australia
Thanks Wayne, that's interesting. It's a pity they didn't have a group with just Malic Acid or just Magnesium as well so that it was clearer which one was helping.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,276
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Dealing with kidney stones traditionally involved lemon juice iirc. I have no idea if this is relevant to gall bladder stones though.

YouTube has become one of my first places to search for various things these days, and it's sort of become my "somewhat authoritative" source for information. o_O:rolleyes: That said, a number of videos tout lemon juice and apple cider vinegar as remedies for both kidney stones and gallstones. They're not the same because of the bile concentrated in gallstones, but they do have similar characteristics that allow them to be broken down by various acids, including malic acid.

If anybody ever gets a gallbladder attack, quick relief can apparently be gotten by soaking a cloth in apple cider vinegar, place it over the gb, and put a heating pad over the top. Another quick remedy is to take an epsom salts bath, which takes the pressure off the gb by relaxing the bile ducts. Anything to relax the bile ducts will bring relief, such as massage, etc. I've never had a gb attack, but they apparently can be VERY painful. From what I can gather, gb attacks caused by gallstones can be almost entirely avoided by regularly ingesting stone dissolving foods such as lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, radishes, apples, dandelion tea, lecithin, etc.. Malic acid is an expeditious way to get a lot of protection with very little effort. --- I've heard that 90% of kidney stones are a result of not drinking enough water.

BTW, from all the testimonials I've read about people experiencing gb attacks from gallstones, virtually every one of them was advised to have their gall bladder removed, which is the most common surgery annually in the US (half million). $30K-$40K for an operation is the preferable option for gall bladder removal surgeons, as opposed to recommending a liver/gb flush. BTW, medications (14%) and allergies to foods can also restrict bile ducts and cause a gb attack, even when gallstones are not present. Also, for anybody with gallstones (virtually everybody), they generally have way more "liver stones", something we rarely hear about. And they're very, very toxic.
 
Last edited:

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
Sometimes gall bladders are too diseased to save too. Mine only had sludge in it according to the pathology report and possibly could've been saved if I'd known I was gluten intolerant / celiac. Apparently there's a connection between gall bladder disease and celiac.

imho, gall bladder attacks are equivalent to kidney stone or childbirth pain. I used to take Donnatal elixer for these. : )

I drink plenty of water and know that I get kidney stones from high oxalate foods. I started getting these in 2007-8 and have experimented enough to know where mine come from. Nuts or seeds especially will trigger stones. I'm not sure how true this is for everyone but the low oxalate diet is standard protocol for stoners.

I was wondering if you felt better on malic acid ? PEM is one of my most disabling symptoms. I can sometimes fight it physically by using caffeine, sugar and now Vitamin water xxx but mentally I'm in slow motion.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,276
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I was wondering if you felt better on malic acid ? PEM is one of my most disabling symptoms. I can sometimes fight it physically by using caffeine, sugar and now Vitamin water xxx but mentally I'm in slow motion.

Hi xchocoholic,

I don't notice a lot from malic acid, but just enough to know that my body likes it and wants to continue taking it. I used to use caffeine as well, but got enough messages from my body that it didn't like that. It was hard to give up because of the temporary boost it gave me. --- Quite honestly, the best pick me up and the therapy that's given me the most cognitive improvement seems to be MMS (chlorine dioxide). I know it's controversial for some people, so I often hesitate to mention it. Only takes a little bit (as little as 1/6 of a drop) to make a big difference for me. I was very sluggish this morning, took my 1/4 drop, and felt much better in only a few minutes.

My best guess is it gives me quick energy because it improves mitochondrial function. I think in this regards it's similar to another chlorine compound DCA (dichloroacetate), which has been used to treat mitochondrial and metabolic disorders for several decades. Most recently it's being researched as a promising cancer treatment therapy at the University of Calgary.
 
Last edited:
Messages
7
Location
Germany
I'm struggling with the search-engine. If this is not the best place for my question, please let me know.

I'm taking Malic Acid a few weeks now, only 250mg every second day, like my Kinesiologist told me (before that I tried 1 capsule per day - didn't turn out so well). I take it for Aluminium and Ammoniac detox mainly. Pushing the Kreb's Cycle is also welcomed. I couldn't find much about in german forums, thus I'm pretty alone with my experience and don't know what to make of it.

What my body does with it, is connected by my intuition with what I read about the effects of Guaifenesin. Therefore I'm asking myself, if it's effect to the cells is somehow similar? I don't really feel pain from it. Generally I hadn't reached a state of CFS with notable pain, just nasty gouts here and there sometimes. What I have is strong stiffness that makes me walk like an old lady and a sour feeling after too much activity (like a truck ran over me).

Well, when I take Malic Acid, I get this feeling in my muscles, that I can't explain properly. It's like some kind of tension. I got this feeling pretty badly when I tried intracellular deacidification last summer, it drove me nuts! It makes me want to move this body parts, or stretch it, rub it, massage it. It's just like something's going on there. Yesterday it was mainly in my arms during the night and in the morning they felt very week, like muscles didn't want to function at all. The left arm also began to prickle for two hours like the blood flow was somehow compromised. I paused Malic Acid since then and for now I feel okay.

I really would appreciate to know: Is this good or bad? Does it mean all the garbage in the cells is getting moved out, like Guaifensin does it? Should I go on and bear the feeling (which is much easier knowing it's a good sign). Or should I stop it because it means something bad?

If someone knows a thread where I can find more about it, that would also be very helpfull.
 

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,685
Malic acid did help with my back and neck pain, but I realized that it has a terrible effect on my sleep, even taken in the morning. A lot of supplements that would help me affect me this way.
 

Grigor

Senior Member
Messages
462
Location
Amsterdam
Malic acid did help with my back and neck pain, but I realized that it has a terrible effect on my sleep, even taken in the morning. A lot of supplements that would help me affect me this way.
Yes. I noticed it too.

It's weird I took Magnesium Malate before and no problem. But right now my intestines find it hard to deal with.
Too much acid it feels. Burning. Etc. With my IBS I feel horrible.
But sleep is terrible. Been waking up in the middle of the night since taking it. Weird cause never do so.

Does this slowly go away? Will it get better?
Been taking Solgar Magnesium calcium zink. Which is fine for me. But I feel less the benefits of sound sensitivity and such.