Lyme test turning positive after antibiotic treatment?

[Daffodil]

i have been reading about "autoimmunity" and the suspected intracellular bacteria connection. there is evidence that IBS is also from intracellular bacteria and most of us had this before the CFS. I wonder if a challenge to the immune (mono?) caused this bacteria to spread and that is what is causing the CFS? maybe what we have is some bacteria but not necessarily lyme?

anyway sorry to derail thread.

I would also recommend the LTT ELISPOT for Borrelia.

Interestingly, my c4a was similarly high and came much lower with antibiotics. this probably could mean many things, though.

my CD57 is only a little low.

I don't know why no one seems to test NK cell function in Lyme. i have been looking for affects of antibiotics on NK cell function but cannot find any info out there.

maybe if we are late stage, we cannot expect to feel better who knows ugh

 

[bmoberg337]

i have been reading about "autoimmunity" and the suspected intracellular bacteria connection. there is evidence that IBS is also from intracellular bacteria and most of us had this before the CFS. I wonder if a challenge to the immune (mono?)

That's actually why I am searching for a better test. I have also read a lot about autoimmunity and recognize that persistent symptoms may not be the result a persistent infection. I obviously do not want to keep taking antibiotics if this is the case. Unfortunately we don't have enough science to prove what's really going on in people with chronic illness.

.

Interestingly, my c4a was similarly high and came much lower with antibiotics. this probably could mean many things, though.

That is interesting. When I first started antibiotics my C4a and CD57 got worse, even though I resolved one co-infection and the others improved significantly (judging by the drop in antibody levels). However the antibiotics I was on were specific for co-infections and not Lyme. This gave me the suspicion that Lyme or some other unidentified infection was driving the C4a and CD 57. When I started Hyperbaric treatment my C4a dropped significantly and my CD57 went up significantly. My antibody levels to the co-infection remained the same so this further supported my theory that something else was driving C4a and CD57. Since the HBO therapy has really been the only "Lyme" specific treatment I have received it's tempting to say Lyme was in fact driving those other bio-markers. Unfortunately those markers alone are not specific to Lyme.

And I have a fear similar to yours. Maybe if you get to this point there is no amount of abx that will help you, especially if it is a type of autoimmune disease. Hopefully that theory is wrong.

 

[Daffodil]

That's actually why I am searching for a better test. I have also read a lot about autoimmunity and recognize that persistent symptoms may not be the result a persistent infection. I obviously do not want to keep taking antibiotics if this is the case. Unfortunately we don't have enough science to prove what's really going on in people with chronic illness.



That is interesting. When I first started antibiotics my C4a and CD57 got worse, even though I resolved one co-infection and the others improved significantly (judging by the drop in antibody levels). However the antibiotics I was on were specific for co-infections and not Lyme. This gave me the suspicion that Lyme or some other unidentified infection was driving the C4a and CD 57. When I started Hyperbaric treatment my C4a dropped significantly and my CD57 went up significantly. My antibody levels to the co-infection remained the same so this further supported my theory that something else was driving C4a and CD57. Since the HBO therapy has really been the only "Lyme" specific treatment I have received it's tempting to say Lyme was in fact driving those other bio-markers. Unfortunately those markers alone are not specific to Lyme.

And I have a fear similar to yours. Maybe if you get to this point there is no amount of abx that will help you, especially if it is a type of autoimmune disease. Hopefully that theory is wrong.

bmoberg......the c4a goes higher before it goes down i think....herx?

 

[bmoberg337]

bmoberg......the c4a goes higher before it goes down i think....herx?

That's possible although I don't remember experiencing a herx reaction.

 

[wootah88]

I have a question that may or may not pertain to the subject of these posts, so I apologize ahead of time for potentially changing the subject here.

I searched CD57 on the forums to see what I would find and this one popped up. My Abs CD8-CD57+ Lymph was 31 and the normal is 60-360. I've read differing opinions on whether this means Lyme or not. I have been struggling for years with digestive issues, psychological issues, fatigue and have struggled terribly to recover from an injury and then a surgery for it, having terrible muscle cramps, but I wouldn't say that I experience profuse joint and muscle pain. These symptoms seem to abate occasionally though. I also showed to have some mercury in one test and VERY low glutathione. I've been attempting to start AC's chelation protocol but I'm apparently having a terrible reaction to Vitamin C, which I found a few articles saying that certain vitamins can actually exacerbate Lyme symptoms by assisting the bacteria.

I am so lost. What does the CD57 really mean?

 

[physicsstudent13]

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/full/10.1586/14787210.2014.940900
I took rocephin and then had the igg/igm test and it came out as 0.11. Doesn't that indicate past infection? I mean if I had not been infected wouldn't it be 0?
if you want to increase NK cell function you could try taking low doses of vitamin C and D. I don't know if this can cause autoimmune disease like asthma

 

[cigana]

I tested negative, and have continued to test negative for Lyme disease on the IgeneX western blot and PCR. However, I was highly suspect of having lyme disease since I had four active co-infections, an NK CD57 of 7, and a C4a of 13000. I also lived in Lyme endemic regions (including Lyme CT) and was constantly in the woods.

My doctor told me that I probably have Lyme, but people with the worst cases usually test negative. After treatment begins and they "stir things up" people start testing positive. Does anyone have any experience with this? How long did it take before you started testing positive?

Thanks.

I became positive only after abx, took about 3-4months.

 

[Vitalic]

Was negative on LTT Elispot, positive after 1 month of Doxycycline. Who knows if the correlation is meaningful given the unreliability of the tests though. The need for better tests/treatments is staggering.

 

[wootah88]

@Vitalic have you felt any better (or anything at all) since being on the antibiotics?

 

[bmoberg337]

Was negative on LTT Elispot, positive after 1 month of Doxycycline. Who knows if the correlation is meaningful given the unreliability of the tests though. The need for better tests/treatments is staggering.

Yes it is definitely frustrating. I got another round of tests back today and I am still negative on PCR and all bands on western blot from IgeneX (except the 41kDa) are negative.

 

[Daffodil]

Was negative on LTT Elispot, positive after 1 month of Doxycycline. Who knows if the correlation is meaningful given the unreliability of the tests though. The need for better tests/treatments is staggering.

wow. i didnt think the LTT ELISPOT could change after antibiotics. good to know

 

[Vitalic]

@Daffodil Yes but it was not a strong positive and I have not had additional retests, and if you read what Prof. Edwards was saying in the thread about LTT it could simply be a false positive, but nevertheless KDM saw justification to go ahead with treatment.

@wootah88 Well it's strange, I had a couple of potential herxheimer reactions but after that generally there has been such little impact that I honestly would not have known whether I was receiving the antibiotic or water/saline. On Friday however, I had an extraordinary moment towards the end of the Rocephine infusion which was like a fog lifting, suddenly felt extremely clear-headed, that pressure in the forehead/behind the eyes dissipated and was replaced by a warm sensation, and I could focus intently on objects miles away (the hospital room where we are has an amazing sea view). The change in perception was significant enough and abrupt enough that I cannot attribute it to the typical fluctuations in condition one experiences on a day to day basis, and it lasted for maybe 3-4 hours afterwards before it gave way to feeling even worse than before. Looking at it skeptically it could have just been a result of being able to relax in a nice/quiet setting, but the clarity of thought and ability to focus visually for extended periods of time was incredible.

 

[duncan]

False positives are a possibility for most antibody tests. But false positives in cases of Bb in my neck of the woods, where the CDC's 2T protocol rule, I'm kinda thinking are a rarity. They've set the bar so high, that if you snare a positive, I would take it very seriously. If there is any doubt, just check it again after a time, but start treatment in the meantime just to be safe, is what I usually recommend, so I have to agree with KDM on that.

Not all that familiar with LTT, though.

Still, there is so much misinformation out there about the risk of false positives. There is imo a much greater downside to the risk of false negatives, where the result is treatment is not rendered, and the disease is left to proliferate and worsen and find safe recesses in which to hide.

 

[Tiger_Eyze]

Sorry, I know this thread is old -- just wondering if anyone else besides Cigana turned positive on Western blot during/after Lyme treatment? I know 2 ppl who did. Just want to see if there are more.

Thx!