Lymbic Downregulation

[sb4]

I think it's Steven Progress or something that came up with it. Basically it's about getting your nervous system into social engagement mode which is a signal everything's all right.

I noticed this once when I was talking with a friend of the family and I suddenly started sweating (I usually don't sweat at all) and felt better. Not been able to replicate it yet but that moment stuck out to me.

I think the key is having a nice relaxing happy conversation with a friend. Easy said than done but I do think it helps tweak the nervous system towards safety as long as you have the energy for it.

Keep flexing those mood elevation skills! I sometimes like to watch reaction videos of movies I've already seen on YouTube. Things like Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, etc.

 

[Koli]

Ah, yes Stephen Porges! Yeah, I agree that it's super helpful to have relaxing time with other people. I hope you and your mom are having a chill time.

@onbehalfof I heard back from the DNRS people and they confirmed that they don't sell DVDs anymore (you can only stream the program), and if people want to continue after the first year they can for $20/mo!!!!! (I'm not sure what it would be in pounds, £16 if it's the same but sometimes it isn't.) So that is....a very subpar policy, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, if I had it to do all over again I still would have bought the program, and then also bought the transcript so I would have everything for later and not needed to pay anything more. And to be totally honest, I would also likely have looked for a way to record the most important parts to keep them for myself.

For me, DNRS was a bargain because it really helped, so I think it was $250 then and I have used it as my main way of healing for five years and counting! Haha if my math is right, that's $4 a month for the only thing that has ever really helped me. But of course I have no way of knowing whether you would benefit a lot from it or not. I have rewatched the DVDs twice during the first few years, but to be honest it only confirmed what I already knew.

I wish I had better news about that! I think it sucks, but I still think the science and program are really sound.

 

[beingsamiracle]

@Koli You are really amazing for posting about your experience and sharing about your journey. It's easy for me to sense your warmth and kind energy through your writings. I've been on the fence about Gupta and the lot for the longest time, but one of these days may just jump into it. I've been tailoring my own meditation course from various resources and am enjoying it very much, but I know that I have lots to learn and experiment with that those programs probably cover. If I every do take the plunge, I'll make sure to write an update here.

 

[sb4]

@Koli I had before searched for free DNRS programs but with not much luck. I'm sure if I searched hard enough I could find a free copy. It's one of them where if it works I will gladly subscribe for the rest of my life as that would be invaluable however if it doesn't then it's yet another thing I've wasted money I don't have on. Though your writings do want me to take the plunge.

@beingsamiracle I agree, Koli has been super kind and informative throughout this thread. If you do take the plunge I would be glad to hear what you make of it.

 

[Koli]

Hi guys! @beingsamiracle Aw, thank you so much! You're so kind to tell me that. I would also love to hear how it goes if you do buy a program, but no pressure. Just interested in your wellbeing and journey!
@sb4 Thank you! Totally get where you're coming from--it's always a hard decision to pay for a treatment, whatever it is. We have all thrown so many dollars or pounds down the drain with this group of illnesses/symptoms.

i honestly feel like with the right support, you guys could probably apply all the stuff I've written about and you would start to heal, if it's going to help you. For me a key component was really the emotional/social side: getting totally on board with the program and committing to it, getting friends and family on board, reporting all of my successes in a journal and also posting them to the DNRS forum, and reading other people's successes. But maybe you guys could do that for each other here? there might also be other people on this site or Health Rising who are reporting and sharing brain retraining successes with each other. Also, there is the Facebook group (linked in this thread) where people are doing that.

And remember the successes are NOT symptom changes, but successfully APPLYING YOUR PROGRAM. Putting in that hour every day of the best bliss you can manage, focusing on enjoying whatever there is to enjoy the rest of the time, paring away the things in your life that feel draining or stressful, prioritizing self care and fun, pulling yourself out of focusing on worry, regret, fear, etc, as best you can, and getting back to feeling happy and relaxed. Gupta advises a "happy go lucky" attitude, and I think that pretty much sums it up.

Also, all the programs do offer a money back guarantee, if that helps any. I know with both DNRS and Gupta they require that you do the program for six months first and then you have a six month window to return it. I think there is a restocking fee too, so be sure to read carefully about that. They don't claim to cure you fully in six months, so you have to say you haven't had any improvement at all.

 

[sb4]

@Koli At some point I might check out the free trial and see what its about.

The issue I have that I'm trying to correct is that I'm in constant cardiovascular discomfort. I find that my face is constantly scrunched up because of this particularly with things like eye squinting. So I have been focusing on relaxing my face whenever I notice I'm doing this. So I guess that's a success, though it's a 24hr job as soon I stop thinking about relaxing my face it scrunches up again.

 

[Koli]

Ohhhh, that sounds rough. Hmm,...not sure what to advise for that. Maybe going a different route and ignoring the scrunching but purposely focus on something pleasant? Like, what if you and your mom do a thing where you spend five minutes (with a timer) discussing some of your favorite memories? When the timer goes off, if it's still fun you can keep going! But you would do at least that long, Because your body and brain have gotten into the scrunching habit, see. And to get it out, it might be necessary to lure it with some kind of yummy carrot.

Have you ever heard that story about how the sun and the wind made a bet about who could get a man walking outside to take his coat off? I'm paraphrasing here, so be gentle with me. The wind blew really, really hard to try to blow his coat off, but the guy just kept wrapping it closer to him the cooler he felt. he held on for dear life! Then the sun came out and he took it off by himself.

So I think a lot of brain retraining uses that principle: tempt your brain into relaxation, and your body will relax too. Do it enough times, and that becomes your brain's new default. You can get creative with that! I know you have it in you after seeing your self made program.

 

[sb4]

@Koli I like the pleasant memories idea. Will give it a try.

Recently I've been trying to focus on something relaxing and fun despite my discomfort. Not ignoring it, that doesn't tend to work for me, accepting the discomfort is there whilst focusing on something better (juicy carrots).

You're right, the more I can get my body to relax the easier it will become.

 

[Koli]

Yes, good job! I do the same--not ignoring it but just kind of letting it be there, and seeing is there *also* something enjoyable in the moment that I could notice? Like maybe my window is cracked and it has started to rain and that smells good. Or I remember that I'm going to be eating something yummy for lunch, so I smile to myself. It can be a kind of tricky balance to not avoid the discomfort (because for me, that's what I used to do! And then I was just kind of "escaping" in my mind, but leaving my body behind), but it gets easier with practice.

That's because the more you practice the relaxing/savoring/enjoying/appreciating, the more easily it will happen. Our brains do this thing where they prioritize using the pathways that are used the most and that we *focus on* the most. That's one of the key concepts in brain retraining: what you do more of, your brain will get better at doing! our brains actuallly restructure themselves to serve up joy and contentment faster and more efficiently! Isn't that wild?

The opposite also happens: when we focus a lot on pain/disatisfaction/regret, etc our brains get better at producing those feelings more often and with weaker sensations or life events to trigger them.

There is this book called Hardwiring Happiness by Rick Hanson, and if you look on Amazon, there is a review that describes one of the key concepts--drawing out a pleasant experience just a little longer than happens spontaneously. Just savoring it for something like 30 extra seconds. You could check it out! I haven't actually read the book--just the review! Haha

The author also has a podcast with his dad called Being Well. So that could be another free resource. Maybe you and your mom could listen to it for fun! There are a lot of podcasts about where happiness comes from and how to cultivate it--it is a science! I used to listen to one called The Happiness Lab where every week to host explains another way to cultivate happiness and the research behind it,

You're doing great!!

 

[sb4]

Thanks, I'll keep those resources in mind.

I just learned of Stephen Porges Safe and Sound Protocol. It's basically music that stimulates certain muscles in the ear connected to the polyvagal social engagement system. I think it uses tones that simulate the human voice in a relaxing way or something.

Anyway I found a playlist on Spotify called Safe and Sound Protocol and listened to it before bed last night and this morning. I feel like it was quite successful in calming my body. It's early days yet but I m going to keep at it.

The weird thing for me is when my body relaxed my heart symptoms don't really abait, they just change. I'm hoping this is because my body has been stuck in sympathetic for so long my cardiovascular system is just stiff or something and if I can regularly get in a relaxing state it will loosen up over time.

 

[Koli]

Oh wow, I didn't know about that playlist! I see they have a bunch! Which one are you listening to? Maybe it'll help my stupid sleep issues.

It takes time for the physical stuff to change. The brain changes first, and then it's better able to regulate the body. I have always found this graph highly accurate.

 

[onbehalfof]

Hi! Thank you very much! I'm so glad. I'm in the US.
* Here is a Facebook group, Neural Retraining Friends.
* I checked my library and it doesn't have either program, unfortunately. So maybe that's not a real thing.
* I have seen DNRS or Gupta Program DVDs on eBay, but I don't see any cheap ones right now in the US or UK.
* I searched eBay for previously sold items, and it looks like sometimes the Gupta program at least can be had for ~$40 (£32). It seems like it's easier to find that one than DNRS, and the Gupta program is actually from the UK, so that may be even more true there.

If you can find a transcript of either program, that will contain the whole program and you wouldn't need the DVDs. So whatever you find that is cheapest should work, unless you learn much better from video than text. Be sure that what you buy for DNRS says "transcription book" because there is a similar looking "student manual" that does not contain the full program. Although it would be nice if you could also get the manual! Sometimes people sell sets.

Another consideration is that both books are rather large and heavy, so might be a challenge to hold them, depending on how you are affected by ME/CFS. They are spiral bound.

There is another popular program I haven't tried called ANS Rewire. It's possible you could find a used version of whatever their teaching materials are.

Before I tried DNRS I watched videos from both programs on the websites or YouTube. You could try that and see if you feel more of an affinity for one or the other. To be completely honest, I went with DNRS largely because it didn't really mention ME/CFS much. I thought I would have more resistance to a program that claimed to heal CFS, because I had been disappointed by so many other treatments before. I just thought DNRS would be less triggering, and for me it was! Haha

I noticed you can get a free trial at the DNRS site, and I signed up for that to check it out for you. It's not the full program, but there are a lot of videos you can watch and see what you think. It may be annoying to see some of it but not really get to the full program. You don't have to give out any payment information to do the free trial, just an email address.

Gupta has a lot of videos on YouTube. Here's a link to the first few videos from his program. You can see if you like his vibe. I find him kind of dorkily comforting. He also has a free app with some of the meditations from his program. It's called The Meaning of Life Experiment.
Take care!

Thanks so much Koli you are ever so kind
Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

 

[Koli]

Thank you! Same to you, onbehalfof! Bright winter blessings to you and your loved ones.