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Looking for help with Methylation/ Possible ATP issues (Test Results)

Messages
17
Looking at my OATs test again I looked a little further into my very high reading of Quinolinic / 5-HIAA ratio. It should be under 2.5 but mine is over double at 5.5. I originally thought this just meant I have low serotonin which wasn't a surprise considering how anxious/depress I am. Today I found an online guide giving some more breakdown of what each reading means and the breakout for Quinolinic / 5-HIAA states " A high ratio indicates excessive inflammation due to recurrent infections, excessive tryptophan intake, immune overstimulation, excessive adrenal production of cortisol, or excessive exposure to phthalates"

This seems to be another sign pointing to immune dysfunction. I am really starting to believe I am being affected by the EBV when I tie my high EBV antibody readings in with these OAT's test results. My methylation test also shows normal Methionine with low SAM levels which points to an ATP issue. I have read a few articles stating the effects of EBV on ATP production.

If this is in fact what is going on I think I have a theory on why I got so much worse these last few months. I have never felt "great" and have always dealt with low energy but have reached a new low these past months. So as I mentioned in my introduction thread I wanted to quit smoking cigarettes' for general health and thought it might be dragging down my energy levels. During this attempt I read about how niacin (nicotinic acid) might help with cravings since it might work on some of the same receptors in the brain. This was before I knew about MTHFR or methylation and I blindly started dosing high levels to help with cravings. I did this for a while I would say 2+ months until I crashed so far and finally thought to look further into the niacin. This is when I heard about it using up methyl groups and led me to all the methylation research to get here today. I think its possible this High stress / low methylation environment let the virus take over and dig its claws deeper.

These test results are 3+ months after I gave up on the quit attempt and after I did Freddd's protocol for a while. I'm sure my levels were even lower back then(I also stopped all supplements for 3 weeks prior to the test). I eventually gave up on the quit I am back to smoking and obviously stopped the high dose niacin. I feel better than I did during the middle of the quit attempt but haven't recovered to pre quit levels which weren't great to begin with either. Just thinking out loud thanks for all the help everyone
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
B3 in theory should help you since your SAMe is low, you can’t use your methyl groups.. but maybe it pushed some pathways in your body and there were other issues that needed supported/addressed first.

I would do a hair analysis and GI test like GI-Map and GI Effects to see what else is going on. Also blood work to see your mineral/vitamin levels although hair analysis is going to give a lot of info.

You have to figure out where to start, maybe the gut, maybe minerals or vitamins, taking a single nutrient isn't going to get anywhere.
 
Messages
17
B3 in theory should help you since your SAMe is low, you can’t use your methyl groups.. but maybe it pushed some pathways in your body and there were other issues that needed supported/addressed first.

I would do a hair analysis and GI test like GI-Map and GI Effects to see what else is going on. Also blood work to see your mineral/vitamin levels although hair analysis is going to give a lot of info.

You have to figure out where to start, maybe the gut, maybe minerals or vitamins, taking a single nutrient isn't going to get anywhere.

I actually did have some good energy when I first started the B3 but I think I just pushed it way to far without any methyl group supporting supps like TMG or SAM-e. I was taking multiple 50mg niacins a day and sometimes also taking 500mg niacinamide. In hindsight very dumb but this was before I really knew about methylation.

I actually did get my GI effects results back and they don't look terrible besides it looking like I'm missing a whole class of probiotics "Verrucomicrobia Phylum". I don't see any probiotics available that specifically boost this? I attached the results for reference
 

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Messages
17
I think probiotics/prebiotics in general will increase any of the beneficial bacteria but look up Daniel Kalish (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1OH7pjErBNES_Znon4O3kw), he has some good info about the GI effects. Your fats are high maybe means you have bile issues, that lines up with the high taurine in the neuro test.

I have been taking probiotics for years from the run of the mill stuff, to spore based, to now using "Seed" human strains in addition to a prebiotic blend. Its seems weird that I'm missing a whole class of them it looks like they didn't detect any levels at all of that specific group. Will check out the videos thank you

My original doctor also prescribed me an anti fungal. Im not sure if i should give it a run or if I should wait to consult with my next doctor.
 
Messages
17
Yep transsulfuration speeds up under oxidative stress, so maybe you need antioxidants or maybe gut issues? Vit C, E, A, ALA, NAC, CoQ10, zinc, manganese, copper are all antioxidants. B3 helps glutathione too. Oxidative stress can be from toxicity/metals, gut issues.

I decided to give Vitamin E another try since it has been a very long time since I have taken it directly. I did some research and decided to give the other form of Vit E a try (Tocotrienols) This form is made from red palm oil and supposedly has more neuroprotective properties compared to the Tocopherols. I tried a standardized form to make sure the purity was there (EVNol SupraBio) The first day I took it I noticed I was pretty down in the dumps but thought it was just a bad day. Next day I crashed pretty hard and I stopped it immediately. It took a couple days but I feel back to "normal".

Is there anyway this could have caused me to crash? I also crashed when I tried NAC but I have heard this is a fairly common reaction in the ME/CFS world but have not heard of anyone crashing from Vit E. I have to try it again to 100% confirm but will have to time it right when I know I can just hibernate for a couple days if things go south.

*Edited to add more information

I also added Vitamin K2 in the MK4 form at the same time but have taken this multiple times in the past with no ill effects. One thing I did notice in those 2 days I took the Vit E is my face cleared up quickly and my skin had a nice glow to it but internally/mentally I felt terrible :eek:
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
This is what I was saying earlier, if you aren't producing enough energy the organic acids can be artificially low -
(at 28:30)