live cell therapy and cell signaling factors

[Chris]

Cell Signaling Factors

Hi; does any learned person out there know much about these mysterious things? Cheney's use of them tempts me to just go ahead and eat some bison heart, frozen and raw, or lightly grilled, since I can get honest grass fed bison. But reason tells me that those peptides are going to get chewed up by either the cooking process or by my stomach. Does anyone really know? Many thanks for any info!
Best wishes, Chris

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Hi; does any learned person out there know much about these mysterious things? Cheney's use of them tempts me to just go ahead and eat some bison heart, frozen and raw, or lightly grilled, since I can get honest grass fed bison. But reason tells me that those peptides are going to get chewed up by either the cooking process or by my stomach. Does anyone really know? Many thanks for any info!
Best wishes, Chris

Hi Chris,

As you know, I can't answer your specific question. But, I did run across the following information about bison in general at this link.

http://www.bisoncentral.com/doc_lib/Askew7.06.pdf

I was particularly interested in the references at the end - the one by Wahle for the paper "Cell Signal mechanisms....."

Hopefully, someone on the forum will have more specific info.

Take care,

HW

 

[Kathi]

They have been used in Europe for quite a long time with success.

Kathi

 

[Tony]

I think that Kutapressin/Nexavir could be called a cell signaling factor. It's peptides and amino acids made from pigs liver.

 

[consuegra]

There have been several recent threads on cell signaling factors that have gone nowhere. I wonder why? Certainly Cheney has a bunch of patients on these therapies, but nothing is documented -neither the pros or cons. Cheney himself advances "rules" which he has developed over the last few years. For instance, he will not give adrenal or thymus live cell to CFS patients as it creates a "backflash". How does this relate to the long history of live cell therapy done in Europe, particularly Germany, where they take live cell for breakfast? Check out the German thymus society and various cell therapy spas in Germany and Switzerland. Is live cell safe? Do any doctors in the US do live cell therapy, beyond Cheney? How come it is not used more in CFS? What is the deal here? Is it used in Europe? I asked de Meirleir about it and drew a blank.

Chris

http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com

 

[Hysterical Woman]

There have been several recent threads on cell signaling factors that have gone nowhere. I wonder why? Certainly Cheney has a bunch of patients on these therapies, but nothing is documented -neither the pros or cons. Cheney himself advances "rules" which he has developed over the last few years. For instance, he will not give adrenal or thymus live cell to CFS patients as it creates a "backflash". How does this relate to the long history of live cell therapy done in Europe, particularly Germany, where they take live cell for breakfast? Check out the German thymus society and various cell therapy spas in Germany and Switzerland. Is live cell safe? Do any doctors in the US do live cell therapy, beyond Cheney? How come it is not used more in CFS? What is the deal here? Is it used in Europe? I asked de Meirleir about it and drew a blank.

Chris

http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com

Hi Chris,

All good questions and I want to know too!! My local CFS friend who sees Cheney has really had some improvement since she started the cell signaling factors. I believe Cheney develops his "rules" based on how his patients perform on the echocardiogram terrain map. According to my friend who is in touch with other Cheney patients, they improve when they follow protocol based on what the map says. I suspect that it is geared toward CFS and not for other illnesses.

Cheney has stated that he has concerns about patients trying to take cell signaling factors on their own without input for a doctor who is trained to use the therapies. I have also read that he said there were docs in the US currently being trained in the therapy but I have searched several times for a practitioner and have come up blank. Anybody got ideas on this?

As to why the therapies aren't used more in the US? Germany and Switzerland have always seemed to have held on to therapies that weren't main stream allopathic treatments - continuing to use more homeopathy and herbs than here. It floored me that Germany adopted the Codex - couldn't quite understand that.

Hopefully someone else on the forum will have more information about live cell therapies and practitioners.

Take care,

HW

 

[consuegra]

Thanks for this reply. As far as I can determine both Dr. Gordon in CA and Dr. Sharp in TX use the Cheney cell signaling factor. And yet there is no report from patients of these two doctors either. It seems a strange phenomena that a therapy that is seen as potentially beneficial is not explored or considered in the open. Instead patients are sworn to secrecy and no discussion is possible and when it is brought up, the door is slammed shut. Cheney said that he was open to sharing this product, but where is the evidence?

Chris


http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com

 

[gracenote]

Thanks for this reply. As far as I can determine both Dr. Gordon in CA and Dr. Sharp in TX use the Cheney cell signaling factor. And yet there is no report from patients of these two doctors either. It seems a strange phenomena that a therapy that is seen as potentially beneficial is not explored or considered in the open. Instead patients are sworn to secrecy and no discussion is possible and when it is brought up, the door is slammed shut. Cheney said that he was open to sharing this product, but where is the evidence?

Chris

There is no being sworn to secrecy as far as I know.

I am a patient of Dr. Gordon and was tested by Cheney himself. I had an ecocardiogram performed with added oxygen. While connected, Cheney applied to my forearm various formulations and measured my responses to them. He diagnosed me with dyastolic dysfunction. The various formulations did in turn increase my heart's functionality.

A problem for me is that the order of the cell signaling peptides used were not recorded properly, so unless I repeat the process, I do not know which formulation to use.

The peptides are expensive and are not commercially available. I tried a couple of them for a short while. It is my impression, and I do not really know for sure, that there is no longer much excitement about trying this protocol. There has been no interest on the part of my doctor to retest me or to experiment further.

There is no secret. It is a very complicated process. A regular ecocardiogram will not show the problem as Cheney defines it. You would need a specialized technician trained in this process. The treatment is expensive and hard to come by. You would need to work with a doctor who is interested in and knowledgeable about the protocol.

 

[consuegra]

gracenote

Thanks for this response, which sheds light on the issue.

In his April lecture Cheney was quite positive about the response of his patients to cell signaling factors. He has done a great deal of work with his patients and his IRVT machine. I understand that his diagnostics and protocol are complicated and tied to a set of particulars. Nevertheless, he said that he was going to export his ideas and his treatment to other doctors, other doctors who do not have his machine.

In addition Dr. Dale Guyer, in his public statements, states that he uses live cell therapy with a high success rate in CFS. Who has been the beneficiary of this treatment?

Also in Germany, live cell are used for all sorts of chronic illnesses and rejuvenative strategies. Do any CFS patients in Germany and Switzerland take live cell therapy?

I am interested in this, but there is very little information about it for CFS.

Chris


http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com

 

[slayadragon]

Today I talked to my longtime ME/CFS physician, Dale Guyer.

Amongst other things, I commented that I thought that various organs in my body had become very weak as a result of the detoxification process. He suggested live cell therapy, for adrenals and thymus.

I realize that these are the ones that Cheney does not recommend, but his patients are different than I am. They're just about all really sick. I'm much closer to wellness, and can do a lot more because I don't have the stress of biotoxins on my system.

Unfortunately, the live cell therapy for three weeks' worth of both of these is something like $900. That seems like an awfully lot of money.

Do folks have any sense whether these have the potential of doing anything?

Thanks much for your help.

Best, Lisa

 

[Healthyartist]

I've formed a little group of people who are interested in researching and sharing results about this topic. Let me know if you'd like to join us. Is there a way to PM here? (I'm brand new to posting.)

@slayadragon I *think/hope* they have the potential to do much. Google "Natalie Nichols Live cell injections".

 

[slayadragon]

I did try some of these a few years ago. The ones that seemed to do the most for me were thymus (it decreased my reactivity a bit) and liver. They are a bit on the expensive side, especially since I would need to do a doctor's appointment, but I would be open to trying them again. I'd like to be part of your group. lisapetrison at yahoo.

 

[Healthyartist]

Okay! I added you Lisa! @slayadragon Thanks!

 

[Beyond]

@slayadragon what is in those jars? Sauerkraut? Vegetable juice?

 

[slayadragon]

@slayadragon what is in those jars? Sauerkraut? Vegetable juice?

Fresh vegetable juice, some with a bit of fruit added. The one on the right is homemade milk kefir blended with strawberries.

 

[WillowJ]

Cell Signaling Factors

Hi; does any learned person out there know much about these mysterious things? Cheney's use of them tempts me to just go ahead and eat some bison heart, frozen and raw, or lightly grilled, since I can get honest grass fed bison. But reason tells me that those peptides are going to get chewed up by either the cooking process or by my stomach. Does anyone really know? Many thanks for any info!
Best wishes, Chris

hi Chris, a petide is a a small piece of a protein which is just a few amino acids.

As you suspected, digestion (if working properly) does break protein down typically into single amino acids. Both cooking and digestion may also alter the properties of the amino acids.

Cell signaling and growth factors are very complex, and there is much we do not yet know. I would be wary of any cell therapy that wasn't either an established practice (like bone marrow transplant) or a university-sponsored study. Even from a university study I would need lots of details.

I know someone who did cell therapy in another country (they were very positive about the doc and said he was very careful) and initially reported positive results, but later said it caused problems. Either they weren't specific or I forgot, but I don't know what problems.

Best,
Willowj

 

[Beyond]

Hmm kefir smoothie

 

[Chris]

@WillowJ--thanks! I have not pursued this line since--I have a reasonable amount of wariness- but appreciate your knowledgeable input. Chriws

 

[bmekdeci]

I have been a patient of Dr. Paul Cheney's for many years. The cell signalling protocol has changed over the years. When each CSF was a single treatment, I did very well and experienced what Cheney called a "functional cure" for a time. Then he combined the CSFs into two combination bottles one for am and one for pm. This made the treatment less expensive, but I have not done as well on these although I think they are still very helpful. I have had a great interest in Neurotropin a drug available for 40 years in Japan and more recently in China. The NIH is doing clinical studies of Neurotropin in fibromyalgia patients. This study has been ongoing since 2006 and is supposed to be finished in December. I have also been in touch with a Japanese researcher who has done a study of 11 CFS patients with Neurotropin with promising results. He has not been able to get the study published although his two case reports one on a cure in a young man with CFS and the other great improvement in a middle-aged woman with fibromyalgia have been published.

 

[Ema]

I don't love the idea of Neurotropin being made from the inflamed skin of rabbits though it would be nice to have other good pain options. Surely it could be made synthetically?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18489636/