LDN+d-phenylalanine. anyone else tried it?

[stevesayshi]

Although I haven't been tested (and am not sure such a test exists) I suspect that low endorphins were a problem before I got sick and are even more of one now.

I started LDN (1.5 mg to start) 2 weeks ago and added d-phenylalanine at 1.5 - 2 g a day a week ago. This combo hasn't had a profound effect on my health or actual energy levels (yet?) but mentally I feel much more like myself than I have in quite a while. Things seem funny again, I'm enjoying the company of others even though I can't really keep up with conversations like I used to, I don't fantasize about killing myself constantly; you know, the little things.

I'm wondering if I will counteract the effects of LDN by adding another substance that increases endorphins (well enkephalins via inhibiting their degradation) or is this potentially a way to accelerate healing? I could find very little reference to using them together, just one secondhand recommendation. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[vortex]

I tried it a long time ago, I was really excited about the combo at the time but had some issues and abandoned it, but maybe I should try it again, thanks for the inspiration and let us know how it goes.

 

[Ema]

I think it's a good combo and one I am currently trialing as well.

As far as I have read, Dr Bihari recommended taking DLPA with LDN. I've always done better with plain DPA (plus that is what I already have!) so I will use that. The d enantiomer is responsible for endorphins anyway.

 

[Hip]

@stevesayshi
Some studies have shown that D-phenylalanine is an antidepressant, so this is likely why you experienced a mood boost from it.


D-phenylalanine as a Possible Enhancer of Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)

D-phenylalanine can raise beta endorphin levels due to its ability to inhibit carboxypeptidase A, an enzyme that breaks down beta endorphin.

So on the assumption that LDN increases your body's production of beta endorphin, D-phenylalanine should further enhance these increased beta endorphin levels, by slowing the breakdown of the beta endorphin.


However, it is not clear whether LDN might raise or lower beta endorphin. This study on LDN as a treatment for autism found that in some autistic children LDN raised beta endorphin, but in others it lowered beta endorphin. In both cases, symptoms of autism were improved.

So if this study can be extrapolated to ME/CFS: then in some ME/CFS patients, LDN might raise beta endorphin, and in other patients it might lower beta endorphin.

But the autism study found that baseline beta endorphin levels were higher in autistic children than in healthy controls. Whereas in ME/CFS patients, beta endorphin levels are lower than normal. So there are differences between autism and ME/CFS when it comes to beta endorphin levels.


Note that LDN also affects opioid growth factor (aka: met-enkephalin) as well as the opioid growth factor receptor.†

 

[South]

I don't know if it's just the D Phenylalanine, or if the DL form or the L form of phenylalanine do the same thing, but be aware that people with low bh4 may actually feel worse if they take extra phenylalanine - it uses up two bh4's before it can become dopamine. My husband experienced low serotonin type depression on the days he took L phenylalanine.

Rich Vank had some comments about phenylalanine using up too much bh4, if I can find the quote, I'll add it to this message.

Edit: can't find his quote, somehow the search function by name doesn't work for his name.

 

[Sushi]

Rich Vank had some comments about phenylalanine using up too much bh4, if I can find the quote, I'll add it to this message.

Edit: can't find his quote, somehow the search function by name doesn't work for his name.

This may be the quote:

Hi, Lou.

I think that's interesting. As you may know, phenylalanine is an essential amino acid, and one of its uses in the body is to be converted to tyrosine, which in turn is the raw material for making dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine (adrenaline). The conversion of phenylalanine to tyrosine requires BH4 (tetrahydrobiopterin). BH4 is also needed for the conversion of tyrosine to L-dopa in the pathway toward making dopamine. BH4 is also needed to convert tryptophan to 5-HTP in the pathway for making serotonin and melatonin.

BH4 is often depleted in ME/CFS because it is linked to the folate metabolism, and this metabolism is dysfunctional because it is linked to the methylation cycle by the methionine synthase reaction, and also because it is oxidized by peroxynitrite, which rises in ME/CFS because of glutathione depletion.

I suggest that what happens when you take phenylalanine is that it uses too much of your limited supply of BH4, and that takes BH4 away from the other reactions needed to produce your neurotransmitters. The levels of one or more of your neurotransmitters drops, and that produces the brain fog.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Gondwanaland]

I suppose this combo is a no-go for +/+ MAO-A... Before I found out about my +/+ condition I tried the Phe and couldn't hancle the excess serotonin. I plan to start the LDN in a couple of months though

 

[bad1080]

This may be the quote:

is there a way to counterbalance this BH4 depletion?
i only took one dose of phenylalanine (0.5g) but i rather liked the effect but now i am worried about negative downstream consequences...
edit: i took L-phenylalanine in case that makes any difference
edit2:

it used to be possible to order BH4 from Switzerland, but the FDA has put the kybosh on that since they have approved the synthetic drug form

of course...
he then goes on to recommend "biopterin" but all i can find on iherb is "BioPerine" (an extract from black pepper).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopterin

The amino acid tyrosine becomes essential in people with phenylalanine hydroxylase deficiency. Thus, in addition to the careful reduction of Phe in the diet, Tyr must be supplemented to ensure that nutritional needs are met.[37]

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylketonuria#Diet
do i understand this correctly, tyrosine should balance out a BH4 deficiency?
edit3:
relevant information:

The Dietary Reference Intake for tyrosine is usually estimated together with phenylalanine. It varies depending on an estimate method, however the ideal proportion of these two amino acids is considered to be 60:40 (phenylalanine:tyrosine) as a human body has such composition.[12]

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine#Dietary_requirements_and_sources