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l-citrulline boosting energy (and BP!)

Mary

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17,507
Location
Texas Hill Country
l-citrulline has noticeably boosted my energy for about 4 days - it's really very nice waking up and having energy! Unfortunately, it's also raising my blood pressure! I don't know why as it's supposed to be a vasodilator and thus lower my blood pressure. I just found a post I did about it raising my BP 5 years ago but got no responses. I stopped it and forgot about it.

This time it is helping my energy more than before - it's been a long time since I felt like this.

I've had the same experience before with a couple of things - l-carnitine (2002), NADH (2004), calcium pyruvate (2005), and maybe one or two other things, but all were short-lived - 10 days benefit max. So I don't believe this will last indefinitely - and I do need to find a way to lower my BP! Actually I think beets help with blood pressure, so will try those. It's ironic because I was starting the l-citrulline again because my BP had risen in recent months and I don't know why . . . world events may be a factor - but I can't go into details, no political discussions here! :sluggish:

I also take a ton of other stuff that helps me (B1, B6, folate, methylcobalamin, BCAAs, potassium, phosphorous, magnesium, and some other things) but none of them made me feel like this. I am getting a bit tired right now - did grocery shopping this morning and breezed through the store . . . which never happens!

Somehow I came across this thread the other day and I think this is what prompted me to retry the citrulline: Complete Symptom Relief and CFS Remission Since Starting Nitric Oxide Supplement I did post a little about my experience with arginine in this thread, but I think l-citrulline is more effective for me.

I'm taking 2 teaspoons 2 x a day on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning and late morning)
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
@Mary I think some herbs lower blood pressure which just might off-set this ?
Basil, Parsley. Hawthorn Berries, and...I think Lime Flowers (lindenblumen) Lime flowers can be found as teabags I think. But not commonly in supermarkets. A Health Food Store may have them.
 

Mary

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17,507
Location
Texas Hill Country
Thanks @Wolfcub ! I did take hawthorn many years ago. My doctor initially had me taking digitoxin but it made me ill. This was because of an abnormal impedance cardiography test - he was trying to support my heart, but I reacted badly to digitoxin but no bad reaction to hawthorn though no noticeable difference either. :(

Linden tea looks very interesting: 8 Surprising Benefits of Linden Tea (healthline.com)

I've heard of it but never tried it before - but I think I will give it a go! Beets and beet juice also can lower blood pressure, so I'll be hitting that as well :)
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
Lime flowers make a nice tasting tea @Mary

Lemon Balm and Yarrow also have a reputation for lowering blood pressure.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,956
Some years back I used to take citrulline malate at a dose of 3 grams x two or three times daily, as I found it had anti-anxiety effects. Did not seem to do much for my ME/CFS symptoms though, or at least I did not notice any benefits.

The anti-anxiety effects I think arise from the fact that citrulline is converted into arginine in the kidneys, and I had previously found that arginine itself has anti-anxiety effects.

Later I discovered more effective means to reduce anxiety, such as N-acetyl glucosamine, and then stopped using citrulline malate.
 

Mary

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17,507
Location
Texas Hill Country
@ Mary

Do find that this supplement gives you a false energy whereby if you do too much you will still crash afterwards?
Good question @Jessie 107 - I kind of don't think so, though I've only been taking it a very short time. Yesterday I really pushed it - I felt normal, had wonderful energy, grocery shopped, carried in the groceries and actually got them put away too! It was pushing it and I didn't crash today, and I'm pretty sure I ordinarily would have.

However - That was my 4th or 5th day of taking this I think - and I realized last night I need to cut my dose. My BP has gone up at least 20 points, not good! I had thought it was boosting my thyroid and maybe that was causing my BP to go up, so I cut my thyroid med in half, but my body temp has gone done, so I need to go back to my full dose

Also, the l-citrulline interfered with sleep last night - I could feel it, I was revved up in the middle of the night, and then this morning was a bit extra tired, though I had gotten a little sick too. I was afraid I was finally crashing but I'm perking up again! :confused: So I need to get my BP down. So I'm stopping the l-citrulline for today and maybe tomorrow, and will re-start at one teaspoon a day (instead of 4), see how I do for a few days, and maybe increase it gradually.

I really wish I knew why it was raising my BP though! I do suggest looking at the Complete Symptom Relief thread I linked above - he talks about a certain arginine product relieving all his ME/CFS symptoms for I think it was a couple of months, but then it stopped and may have had a negative after effects - I can't remember - so it's something I want to read more about and be more careful with, at least in terms of dosing. I do think the 4 teaspoons was too much for me!
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,535
Location
Great Lakes
Are you still on the potassium, @Mary? That can also lower BP however, I think it has a very short half life so I found a time released version from Whole Foods called 365.

My Mom has not been having high bp issues anymore since being put on Metropolol so I really have not been able to test the TR version out however, the powdered version used to lower it as well.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,507
Location
Texas Hill Country
Are you still on the potassium, @Mary? That can also lower BP however, I think it has a very short half life so I found a time released version from Whole Foods called 365.
I still take it 4 times a day - with each meal, and before bed - and also more in the middle of the night when i wake up! I know that low potassium can cause high BP. Unfortunately all that most doctors concentrate on is salt and not potassium. So my potassium is good. However, I might have figured out the cause of my high BP.

It actually started going up maybe a couple of months ago and I didn't notice anything different that I was doing. I started looking into beets for nitrous oxide, which may have helped some but not a lot. This morning I came across a study which showed that high levels of BCAAs have been linked to high BP - I've been taking BCAAs for 6-1/2 years because they cut my PEM recovery time by more than half. However, a couple of months ago I switched the product I was using, and the scoop was a higher dose than I had been taking but I thought, WTH, maybe it will boost energy. Anyways, I think it's very possible that my increase in BP coincided with my higher dose of BCAAs! So I'm cutting back right away to my original dosage (around 6000 mg a day). I may even go lower initially just to see if there's an effect on my BP. This is something I never considered before! :bang-head: I even cut out my one cup of coffee yesterday, and had green tea instead, and last night had a horrific migraine with vomiting, and was rather wrung out this morning, and I finally broke down and had my coffee - it tasted so good! Anyways, hopefully I won't have to consider cutting it out again!

I avoid time release supplements in general because, depending on the supplement, they can cause problems - e.g., time-release niacin (depending on dose) has been associated with liver damage because of the constant levels of niacin in the system. I take a fairly good dose of plain niacin at night for sleep and also more in the middle of the night, but have never had a problem with it. The research indicates that it's the time-release version which causes problems.

And certain forms of time-release potassium have been associated with stomach irritation and ulcers because it is kept in the digestive tract for an extended period of time. See Effects of oral potassium supplements on upper gastrointestinal mucosa: multicenter clinical comparison of three formulations and placebo - PubMed (nih.gov) The wax matrix form of potassium (time-release) had the highest incidence of digestive damage (almost 50% of participants). One example of the wax matrix extended release potassium is K-tab. So I just avoid time-release versions of anything!
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
518
Location
Europe
l-citrulline has noticeably boosted my energy for about 4 days - it's really very nice waking up and having energy! Unfortunately, it's also raising my blood pressure! I don't know why as it's supposed to be a vasodilator and thus lower my blood pressure. I just found a post I did about it raising my BP 5 years ago but got no responses. I stopped it and forgot about it.

This time it is helping my energy more than before - it's been a long time since I felt like this.

I've had the same experience before with a couple of things - l-carnitine (2002), NADH (2004), calcium pyruvate (2005), and maybe one or two other things, but all were short-lived - 10 days benefit max. So I don't believe this will last indefinitely - and I do need to find a way to lower my BP! Actually I think beets help with blood pressure, so will try those. It's ironic because I was starting the l-citrulline again because my BP had risen in recent months and I don't know why . . . world events may be a factor - but I can't go into details, no political discussions here! :sluggish:

I also take a ton of other stuff that helps me (B1, B6, folate, methylcobalamin, BCAAs, potassium, phosphorous, magnesium, and some other things) but none of them made me feel like this. I am getting a bit tired right now - did grocery shopping this morning and breezed through the store . . . which never happens!

Somehow I came across this thread the other day and I think this is what prompted me to retry the citrulline: Complete Symptom Relief and CFS Remission Since Starting Nitric Oxide Supplement I did post a little about my experience with arginine in this thread, but I think l-citrulline is more effective for me.

I'm taking 2 teaspoons 2 x a day on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning and late morning)
Hi Mary, it has been a while ago but I wonder if you have found the cause of the BP rise?
I got the same from taking citrulline (also more energy).
The raise in BP as well as more adrenaline in my system, a lot of adrenaline.
Since citrulline also detoxifies ammonia I believe it have something to do with a detox reaction, but that's a guess.
 

Dysfunkion

Senior Member
Messages
178
citruline actually makes me more fatigued now for some reason, so dose malate. citrate from magnesium citrate is the only thing that consistently gives me some kind of boost. The interesting thing is that citrate itself doesn't do this, it's specifically the magnesium citrate, magnesium malate has the opposite effect as well as malate itself. A lot feeds into the Krebs cycle in and out so it could be anything going on.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,507
Location
Texas Hill Country
Hi Mary, it has been a while ago but I wonder if you have found the cause of the BP rise?
I got the same from taking citrulline (also more energy).
The raise in BP as well as more adrenaline in my system, a lot of adrenaline.
Since citrulline also detoxifies ammonia I believe it have something to do with a detox reaction, but that's a guess.

Hi @jason30 - well, I know the l-citrulline raised my BP so much I had to stop it. I don't know the mechanism, but the raise in BP went down when I stopped the l-citrulline.

I think the BCAAs may have also raised it, but I won't stop them. I still need them. If I slack off or get a bad batch (it's happened), I start to go downhill rather quickly, crashing more easily and taking longer to recover, so I'd rather deal with the high BP from the BCAAs. I ended up getting two meds as my BP got scary high - over 160 a lot . . . so my doctor gave me nebivolol 10 mg (beta blocker) and hydrochlorithiazide (25 mg) and that helped. I also started taking hawthorn extract on my own, and that has helped. The hawthorn also helped me a lot with sleep initially, though that wore off before too long. Anyways, all this got my BP to 130 - 140 and I was fine with that.

But now my BP has gotten down to 120's most of the time, sometimes in the teens and sometimes 130's. I'm not sure why though I won't argue with it! It may have to do with a portable PEMF device I've been using (Resona vibe). I've been using the earthing frequencies on it a few a times a day.

Though last night my BP got down to about 105! It was just strange and extra low this a.m as well, and I don't have a clue why.

Thanks for bringing this up as I want to retry l-citrulline now, maybe I could tolerate a lower dose. I can't remember how much I worked with it or played with the dose. But it would be very nice to have that energy again!

I don't think I had a detox reaction from l-citrulline. I've had a detox reaction from many many things - it leaves me feeling sick, weak, poisoned, digestion off, often spacey - l-citrulline never did any of this to me.
 
Messages
72
I've found that stimulating the ears with a tiny bit of electricity affects the vagus system and produces calm along with lower bp and hr. It has a number of beneficial effects on nervous system and body.

Here is a link, they mostly talk about surgical implantation but it can be used outside the body too
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/vagus-nerve-stimulation/about/pac-20384565

Here they talk about using it on the ear
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-stimulation-the-outer-ear-takes-center-stage

Ebay link to a cheap device costs $10
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3555668162...SCNjgQ3Jzf1+Btv2HA/AKGwZQ1|tkp:Bk9SR4KJ046BZA

If the link doesn't work just search for a 'tens unit'. Mine cost about $20 and I paid around $8 for the ear clips but this one includes pads you could use on ears or elsewhere. I put it on a low setting, if you can feel the pulses its a little too high. Around 20 minutes does the job, you could use a setting like 50 microsecond pulses at 20 hz or play around with it trying different settings.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,507
Location
Texas Hill Country
@Florida Guy - I tried something similar a few years ago. I was using a TENS unit I had (which I don't know if I still have) with clips but I had trouble getting the clips fastened properly. Even looking at pictures it wasn't that clear to me where exactly the clips should go, plus I don't think they wanted to stay on. It's fuzzy, I just remember I had problems doing it, so I never did see a benefit but I have heard of this and am really glad to hear that it's helped you!

Maybe some day I'll try again. Right now I'm concentrating on the Perrin Technique, will be seeing a PT or OT in early July, who knows nothing about it, it's a long story, but hope to get it worked out. I think we have to put together our own treatments!
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
403
Location
United Kingdom
@Mary Did you ever try Citrulline Malate? If you found that L-Citrulline gave you energy and Malate is known to benefit energy then Citrulline Malate should be of greater benefit. Also Citrulline is also meant to be of benefit to the circulatory system in a similar way to L-Arginine in that it benefits Nitric Oxide which is known to help heal and maintain the circulatory system. Inflammation is known to be very damaging to the circulatory system which might be one reason for the raised Nitric Oxide levels in ME/Fibro. The body might be trying to heal the damage to the circulatory system caused by the high levels of inflammation.
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
518
Location
Europe
Hi @jason30 - well, I know the l-citrulline raised my BP so much I had to stop it. I don't know the mechanism, but the raise in BP went down when I stopped the l-citrulline.

I think the BCAAs may have also raised it, but I won't stop them. I still need them. If I slack off or get a bad batch (it's happened), I start to go downhill rather quickly, crashing more easily and taking longer to recover, so I'd rather deal with the high BP from the BCAAs. I ended up getting two meds as my BP got scary high - over 160 a lot . . . so my doctor gave me nebivolol 10 mg (beta blocker) and hydrochlorithiazide (25 mg) and that helped. I also started taking hawthorn extract on my own, and that has helped. The hawthorn also helped me a lot with sleep initially, though that wore off before too long. Anyways, all this got my BP to 130 - 140 and I was fine with that.

But now my BP has gotten down to 120's most of the time, sometimes in the teens and sometimes 130's. I'm not sure why though I won't argue with it! It may have to do with a portable PEMF device I've been using (Resona vibe). I've been using the earthing frequencies on it a few a times a day.

Though last night my BP got down to about 105! It was just strange and extra low this a.m as well, and I don't have a clue why.

Thanks for bringing this up as I want to retry l-citrulline now, maybe I could tolerate a lower dose. I can't remember how much I worked with it or played with the dose. But it would be very nice to have that energy again!

I don't think I had a detox reaction from l-citrulline. I've had a detox reaction from many many things - it leaves me feeling sick, weak, poisoned, digestion off, often spacey - l-citrulline never did any of this to me.

Glad that the BP meds helped you.

How are your adrenals?

I love the energy so I am trying to reduce the amount of adrenaline. I am gonna start with taking adrenal cortex to support the adrenals. Because citrulline is converted into arginine, and arginine is hard on the adrenals. Adrenals -> adrenaline -> high BP.

Got the same by taking BCAA's. BCAA gives me a nice energy but after a few days I got into an adrenal crash so I have stopped taking it.

Another thing about the high BP could be that NO boosters dilate blood vessels. That is positive, but excess is harmful. If the blood vessels are too wide, the heart will have difficulty maintaining blood pressure. Your heart will then beat faster and more powerfully.
 
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