Kratom?

[AaroninOregon]

So I got some white vein kratom, which I am going to try tomorrow...the stuff I tried before was green vein.

I'll update after tomorrow's trial.

 

[AaroninOregon]

The white vein trial went much better thus far. I took a teaspoon before breakfast (8:30am) and then another teaspoon @ 2pm.

Shortly after taking the Kratom I begin to feel fatigued, but once the fatigue subsides, I feel really good...more energy, but not amped up energy. Also, my pain is almost non-existent.

Edit: my OI is also much better than normal today...I'll have to wait and see if it returns tomorrow.

 

[panckage]

That's good to hear @AaroninOregon. I think I like red vein the best thus far. Taking it earlier in the day has really worked well for me. I even met a girl on the escalator came back to my place with her and went to the beach for a couple hours. Its nice to have some normal experiences again

I'm taking kratom every 2 or 3 days now. The first dose is usually 3g, followed by a 2g dose 2 hours later. I'd be interested in trying a higher dose but I really don't want to fall asleep haha

 

[AaroninOregon]

@panckage that's awesome

I've thought about using it for sleep, and maybe some day I will...I could always use another addition to my rotation of sleep meds.

I'll have to pick up some red vein and give it a try next...I'm taking tomorrow off from kratom to see how I feel without it again.

 

[AaroninOregon]

Kratom test round 3.

I took white vein kratom on Friday and had a great day, similar to last time I used it. The day after using Kratom, however, I was in more pain than usual, which is what I also experienced the day after the previous time I used it.

My best guess is that on the days I use Kratom, I am overdoing it because my fatigue and pain are less than I am accustomed to.

Round 4 will be later this week, most likely.

 

[panckage]

I've noticed a simliar too @AaroninOregon, the rebound pain the day later. Actually the same thing happened with tramadol as well. For me though it only seems to happen sometimes and I'm not sure the cause. Good point about overdoing it, I'm going to try and be more concious of that

Overall though I'm extremely happy with kratom . I just tried 4g today. The dose seemed to have pretty much the same effect as a 3g dose, only it lasted much longer. Gonna keep testing to make sure that isn't just a placebo effect though

 

[panckage]

@leela I would love to hear more about your usage. How often do you use kratom and at what dosage? Also if you have been using for a while do u find it still just as effective or does it not work as good as before?

I am curious to take it more often (now I take it once every 2 or 3 days) but I don't want to lose any of the positive effects...

 

[leela]

Hi @panckage,
check your Conversations, I PMed you.

 

[AaroninOregon]

Kratom rounds 4 and 5

I used kratom on Friday, July 31 and on Sunday, August 9.

On Saturday, August 1st and Monday August 10, I did not notice any increased pain or fatigue.

My conclusion thus far is that either a) I've learned to not over do it or b) the pain and fatigue the following day was not related to the kratom.

 

[panckage]

@AaroninOregon you are really being a turtle at this haha

I have finished my 2 month kratom experiment. I have taken over 30 doses now. I have to say I'm very happy with krarom

I've settled at a dosage of 4g every second day. 4g feels the same as 3g, but lasts much longer. I've had no tolerance/withdrawal symptoms at all. Also I am finding the effects kratom gives me are very consistent at this dosage. I've never had nausea or any negative effects associated with kratom... well maybe one: I've felt a bit jittery after taking it a couple times. Its pretty minor though and goes away quickly. The only real negative I know of is that withdrawal can happen if it is taken every day. I haven't tried every day dosing personally though

I've tried many different varieties at different price points and can happily say I can't tell the difference between any of them . The reds may work a bit better for pain but then again I'm not even sure about that. Kratom can be bought for $100-150 a kilogram. That makes it $0.40 - $0.60 a dose, nice and cheap!

Effects:
- gives good smooth energy similar to tramadol in my experience but has energy/mind boosting qualities closer to ritalin without the negatives (harsh energy curves, crashing, etc)
- Kratom effects end so smoothly that I honestly still have no idea how long it lasts. Maybe 4 hours? That being said good effects can be apparent 8 hours after dosing
- pain killing capabilities similiar to tramadol/tylenol 3
- some euphoria... not sure how much is from the drug, but you know what its like to feel almost normal sometimes? Its equivalent of a normal person feeling like superman
- not sure of its effects on PEM...honestly I'm very poor at this. It doesn't seem to have any effect on PEM by itself. Increasing your activity because you feel better probably does though . I think its probably safe (for example) for bed ridden ME patients as long as they don't increase their activity

I definitely recommend it to all my sleepy ME brothers and sisters to give it a try

 

[AaroninOregon]

@panckage haha yeah, I'm definitely taking it slow.

I'm doing another trial of kratom today. I do have to agree with you that there is no noticeable effects of when it wears off. I still need to buy a scale so i know exactly how much I am taking.

 

[panckage]

@AaroninOregon one thing I'm noticing is that on days I take kratom I seem to do pretty well and walk around a few hours. OTOH on the days I don't take kratom seem to be my crash days and I usually just stay home. As you increase the frequency of your dosages I'd be interested to hear what patterns you notice

 

[panckage]

So kratom still works well for energy although the euphoria has mostly disappeared. I've had some minor 'tragedies' lately though, so not sure if its tolerance to kratom or not. I've upped the frequency of dosing from every 2nd day to every 2 out of 3 days. Other than loss of euphoria no other differences noted.

I had some bad anhedonia (ability to feel any emotions really) in the past couple weeks. It has been better the last few days though and my kratom use has not changed. This has been a problem long before I tried kratom as well, I keep wanting to blame negative issues on kratom (probably because of all the negativity towards stimulants on this forum haha) but all the negative issues I've had are periodic and occurred long before I started this experiment. I plan to taper down/quit for a week or 2 in the next few months for scientific purposes

Anyway I did some statistics.

***Dosages per day
Kratom - 4g
Marijuana - 0.1g approx
Ritalin - 10-20mg


***Some definitions:
OK - I could go out and walk for several hours. I may get tired, sit or nap for an hour or so, but then I would feel good again. Main issue seems to be the lactic acid pain in legs
Half ok - I would feel good enough to leave the house but within 30min or so I would start to lose it and return home
Half crash - could kind of do stuff at home but didn't feel well enough to leave home
Crash - housebound and not do much


Kratom days
------------------
13 ok
1 half ok
1 half crash

Ritalin + Marijuana days
----------------------------------
5 crash

Marijuana days
------------------
1 half ok
3 crash



Pretty impressive outcome for kratom. Take the results with a grain of salt though. I've had great results with Ritalin in past (although never as good as kratom) but periodically it seems to make me worse. The above results definitely confirm that. My Ritalin days were by far the worst crash days.

I was hoping that by limiting Ritalin to every second or third day that I could have more consistent results with it. But as the above results show that does not appear to be the case. Equally interesting is that the bad reaction to Ritalin seems to be completely unrelated to PEM as well. I'm out of hypothesis as to why ritalin works well sometimes but other times seems to make my condition worse rather than better

 

[0kaygrl]

Kratom is really working for me too. 3-4 grams seems to be a good dose for me. Usually after dropping my son off at school I come home and go straight back to sleep (even though I've slept all night and have so much that needs to get done) but now if I take 4 grams before dropping him off when I get home I do all kinds of chores! I do notice extra sensitivity the next day after taking it. And there's a slight comedown, which can be mitigated by marijuana or a benzo or perhaps some supplements like valerian? My plan is to use smaller doses to kind of taper off the days following usage. I like a Bali strain called Baik Bali. Be careful though, the other day I "accidentally" took 6 grams of red vein Thai and it knocked me on my butt! I was nodding like I had done heroin. Then I fell asleep and my husband woke me up at 11 @ night and I was all "I can't function to take G to school!" I thought it was morning. I was out of it lol. You have to find the right dose for you. Oh and it can cause digestive distress. Not too much for me, just have to make sure I'm taking magnesium to stay regular. Some say it's good for digestion.
Seems like it helps my allergies and sensitivities too.

 

[panckage]

Some interesting developments:
1) In order to prepare for LDN I started to taper down my dose to about twice a week (same dosage just used less often). I'm not sure if I experienced any withdrawal symptoms. I thought I might be experiencing some, but taking kratom did not alleviate the symptoms. The only thing that stood out is that for one day I had sniffling for a few minutes (maybe an hour?) and one other day I had sniffling for about 30 seconds. I believe this is a pretty reliable indicator of opioid withdrawal

2) After I started using kratom less often it suddenly lost almost all of its effectiveness. Increasing the dosage did not seem to make any difference. This went on for 2-3 weeks. I do not believe this was due to tolerance. I believe it has something to do with my illness worsening.

3) And then LDN happened. I started at 1mg a day. I noticed no direct positive effect from this dosage -BUT- when I took kratom it gave me the full effect again. Even the full euphoria returned. Now I've only been on LDN for ~8 days but I've done kratom 3 times in that time and has had the full effect each and every time. This effect appears to be supported by research. This is from the Revia (50mg naltrexone) monograph:

When co-administered with morphine, on a chronic basis, REVIA blocks the physical
dependence to morphine and presumably other opioids.

but also:

In subjects physically dependent on opioids, REVIA will precipitate withdrawal symptomatology.

http://webprod5.hc-sc.gc.ca/dpd-bdpp/info.do?code=43143&lang=eng

So it appears you should be opiod free before beginning LDN but once you start naltrexone you should be ok

4) Off topic: I had no other positive effects from LDN except the opiod one listed above until I reached 2mg. But at 2mg holy crap!!!!!!!!!! I've had 3 almost normal energy type days. I've gone from survival mode (how can i exist until tomorrow?) to not having enough time each day to do what I want to do . Its really amazing the difference and I'm still not even halfway through titrating my dosage. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the effects will last!

 

[BarbCat]

I LOVE kratom and so does hubby. Truly a God-send. Been using it for anxiety for about 5 months at 5-10 grams, mainly once sometimes twice per day with a day off every 3 or 4. Been using it with ultra low-dose naltrexone for a month hoping to avoid addiction. So far, no tolerance issues (fingers crossed). Some days I don't notice much of an effect but those are the ones where my digestion seems to be in a riot and I don't get anything from anything I take. I like the various Green Bali strains for relaxation and the Reds also. White's are a bit too uppy for me, as well as some Ma Daengs. Vendor and freshness are important. I really like the product and folks at mmmspeciosa.com (hope it's OK to use a supplier reference, no affiliation. Please tell me if not) and they always enclose free samples.

 

[0kaygrl]

I must update to say that there are major side effects for me with this plant. Next day depression and severely increased fatigue occur. This happens to other people that I live with that also tried it. It's not always and it's more likely if I use it a few days in a row. I'm the only one who's experienced RUQ swelling, which I believe is liver pain, which I'm a little predisposed to. If you google liver toxicity and kratom you'll find LOTS of stories of people being rushed to ER and diagnosed with liver problems.

However, it's so beneficial- sometimes you HAVE to function- that I use it with caution. I take N acetyl cysteine hoping it'll mitigate some of the negative effects on the liver.

Another word of caution: strains vary WIDELY, one will give you hours of productivity and the next will knock you on your butt.

 

[digital dog]

Sounds lovely...I'm jealous.

In my experience what goes up, must come down . That's why I never bother.

 

[panckage]

I must update to say that there are major side effects for me with this plant. Next day depression and severely increased fatigue occur.

Do u think these are withdrawal symptoms you are describing?

 

[AaroninOregon]

The DEA has decided to "temporarily" make kratom a schedule 1 controlled substance.

http://theinfluence.org/kratom-user...n-to-classify-the-plant-as-a-schedule-i-drug/

And there is a petition to kepp it from becoming illegeal:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/please-do-not-make-kratom-schedule-i-substance