King's College: Understanding Attention difficulties in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ ME

[SOC]

Unless you rationalize it by saying they never had CFS/ME to begin with.

Did they, according to the CCC or ICC?

 

[cmt12]

Did they, according to the CCC or ICC?

None of them did?

 

[Snowdrop]

I agree this study is GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).
I must give a smiley face to A.B. in this thread.
Twice got a giggle out of me for
'And in the case the data doesn't support the conclusion, they will torture it until it confesses.' and 'weasel words'.

 

[SOC]

None of them did?

My point is, it is is not "rationalizing" to ask for evidence that the patient actually had the illness in question before you accept that s/he was cured of that illness.

I can diagnose myself with IBS because I have stomach pain, eat potato chips, feel better the next day and claim eating potato chips cures IBS. It would be perfectly reasonable for someone to question whether I actually had IBS. A supposed cure is not a cure unless it is clearly documented that patient actually had the condition the treatment claims to cure.

 

[Sean]

Now, I'm curious how any other theory can explain how people can get substantial symptom relief to the point where they feel cured using these techniques?

"...they feel cured..."

Please cite the objective evidence for significant numbers of people being cured by these methods.

 

[cmt12]

"...they feel cured..."

Please cite the objective evidence for significant numbers of people being cured by these methods.

I'm saying none of them are cured. I'm trying to explain why they THINK they are cured and why they get relief - according to my theory. If you haven't read the theory that I proposed, then this will be hard to follow.

Anyway, I made my point so no need for another back and forth that goes nowhere.

 

[chipmunk1]

So, why do some people experience relief and even claim to be cured by CBT, or the Lightening Process, or Gupta?

well i heard some people claiming being cured with Gupta. Strangely 12 months later they seemed to be very ill again. Don't believe everything what people tell you. There are lots of desperate people out there who want to believe in a cure... then there are some people who never were really seriously ill in the first place and got better on their own while doing some quackery.

 

[chipmunk1]

I'm saying none of them are cured. I'm trying to explain why they THINK they are cured and why they get relief - according to my theory. If you haven't read the theory that I proposed, then this will be hard to follow.

I don't think you will manage to convince anyone here. If you believe you are right you should cure yourself first and then come back and tell your story. If your story is credible you might inspire some people. If you cannot cure yourself your theory might be flawed.

 

[lansbergen]

I don't think you will manage to convince anyone here. If you believe you are right you should cure yourself first and then come back and tell your story. If your story is credible you might inspire some people. If you cannot cure yourself your theory might be flawed.

I do not understand your response. I read none of them is cured.

I'm saying none of them are cured. I'm trying to explain why they THINK they are cured and why they get relief - according to my theory. If you haven't read the theory that I proposed, then this will be hard to follow.

 

[MeSci]

I didn't try to make myself "feel" anything in response to the words. If I had, it would have been what I thought I would be expected to feel. But in reality, I didn't feel any emotional response to any those terms in the context of ME. Why should I? They're just symptoms.

Now listen, dear. You are just not wanting to help yourself by cooperating with the nice psychoquacks. It's your apathy that is keeping you ill. You just don't want to get better.

Is that what they will think if we don't show the required distress to the nasty words? Or can't even be bothered to do the survey?

I must be keeping myself ill through apathy too, as I'm not going to do the survey.

Or maybe it's because I have more useful things to do.

 

[SOC]

I'm saying none of them are cured. I'm trying to explain why they THINK they are cured and why they get relief - according to my theory. If you haven't read the theory that I proposed, then this will be hard to follow.

Anyway, I made my point so no need for another back and forth that goes nowhere.

I think the problem with these on-going discussions you keep trying to have on multiple threads is that you are not making your point. Many people are clearly not understanding your theory (or so you say), so the problem lies not with the listeners, but with the presenter.

I suggest you return to the original thread where you tried to make this point and attempt to clarify your position there. When you have explained it sufficiently well that people don't have to keep asking numerous questions in an attempt to gain clarity on your position, then there will be room for intelligent discussion. Until then the discussion will be, as you described, "back and forth that goes nowhere".

 

[xchocoholic]

I can diagnose myself with IBS because I have stomach pain, eat potato chips, feel better the next day and claim eating potato chips cures IBS.

Were they barbequed ? Only the barbequed potato chips can cure IBS. And depression. tc .. x

 

[MeSci]

Were they barbequed ? Only the barbequed potato chips can cure IBS. And depression. tc .. x

Actually, and weirdly, when I was still working in an office and plagued by bloating every afternoon, I started having chips (fries, not the things you get in packets that Americans call chips and we call crisps ) for lunch which were cooked in palm oil, and I stopped getting the bloating whenever I had them. They were potato chips (as understood in the UK), so it was either the potatoes or the oil that combated my bloating!

I won't use palm oil due to the terrible environmental issues, so it's coconut oil for me.

 

[xchocoholic]

Chips that come in a bag calm my digestion sometimes too.

I was just joking tho. I've been dressed and hoping to get out of the house for at least 2 hours now so I'm getting goofy.

Btw. I took the test and marked everything as not distressing at all. Words don't phase me. Lack of progress does.

Tc .. x

 

[xchocoholic]

I just want to say I do not believe negative thoughts or thoughts of any kind are the cause. I am not a follower of Freud or his theories. It is a continuous stress SIGNAL that I believe is at the root of the problem. Okay, I'll leave it alone now.

So, why do some people experience relief and even claim to be cured by CBT, or the Lightening Process, or Gupta? If you read what I wrote about repression, the repression point, and energy allocation then you will understand. If you are just across the repression point and barely symptomatic, these techniques will allow the symptoms to be shoved below by de-stressing.

Stress requires energy so preventing stress frees up energy that can be used to repress symptoms. This is why so many people who experience relief using these techniques will almost always have their symptoms come back later.

For those of us that are worse, our symptoms can not be repressed no matter how much de-stressing or positive thinking we do.

Now, I'm curious how any other theory can explain how people can get substantial symptom relief to the point where they feel cured using these techniques? Unless you rationalize it by saying they never had CFS/ME to begin with.

Hi @cmt12

I "think" I know where you're coming from here. I've been in several situations where I felt physically and emotionally suffocated and getting away from the situation stopped those feelings. Marriages, jobs, toxic friends, family and doctors, etc.

Having gone through multiple suffocating situations tho I'm not getting as distraught as I did by these kind of stressors.

For ex. People going through their first divorce are more stressed out than they are the second time. Changing jobs gets easier. Dropping toxic friend. Etc.

I don't think anyone can be prepared for the impact of getting a chronic illness tho. Even if you've seen chronically ill patients. But CFS has to be one of the worst ones to be dx with. The uncertainty of the illness itself is traumatic. Add to that all the bs we patients endure from the medical community. The internet has helped tremendously.

So de-stressing is an important tool for pwcs. It's not going to cure me/cfs tho.

I don't consider questioning someone who says they're cured about their cfs dx as rationalization. The diagnostic criteria for cfs is just a group of symptoms.

Tc .. x

Ps. Like someone else suggested you may want to move this to a different thread. Maybe the psych processes thread. I can't see where this test will prove anything.