Ketotifen for leaky gut

[mellster]

Thanks Rusty - very interesting! My testosterone was at the low end of the ref range last year before supplementing (IGF1 was normal to low normal though), and I def had symptoms of increased TNF-alpha. Wondering if it was this correlation. One thing I never understood about this though is that most have low basal temp and TNF-alpha is an important cytokine that is usually produced during fevers if I remember correctly. How do we produce it without fever?

 

[RustyJ]

Thanks Rusty - very interesting! My testosterone was at the low end of the ref range last year before supplementing (IGF1 was normal to low normal though), and I def had symptoms of increased TNF-alpha. Wondering if it was this correlation. One thing I never understood about this though is that most have low basal temp and TNF-alpha is an important cytokine that is usually produced during fevers if I remember correctly. How do we produce it without fever?

Ketotifen seems to tick quite a few boxes for me, but I'm not convinced it's the bottom line cause. Haven't read anyone saying it's cured them. May depend on degree of damage to digestion coupled with vitamin deficiency (if that is a possible cause). But they have reported energy gains, weight gains, easing of food intolerances. I am already taking antihistamines (claratyne) for my eyes. I got an immediate improvement within a day, after 6 months of misery.

 

[mellster]

Yeah, one thing I don't need anymore now that my digestion has at least improved to a workable level again is weight gain Actually trying to lose some.. cheers

 

[hixxy]

I am currently waiting for a shipment of Iodoquinol from http://mymexicandrugstore.org/ I'll post back here if the shipment arrives and all is in order. They also stock Ketotifen there. The prices there are very reasonable too and they seem to stock a lot of good manufacturers too.

I tried to get Iodoquinol from medsmex and they were a nightmare!!

Just reporting back my experience with this company. All went really well. The delivered product was Iodoquinol manufactured by Pfizer in mexico.I will likely use them again if need be.

 

[maryb]

Anyone tried it yet for leaky gut? Am thinking of asking my doc to prescribe it if it seems to work.

 

[gracenote]

My doctor prescribed Ketotifen for leaky gut. I've been taking it for about 4 months now. I don't know what it's doing for my gut, but it is helping with sleep. I need to take it about 3 hours before I want to sleep and I sleep better and in longer chuncks. I still take Ambien, but I was able to cut down from almost 20 mg per night to 10. Some days I am groggy in the mornings.

I take 1 mg of Ketotifen each evening. I get it by prescription from Clark's Pharmacy in Bellevue, Washington. They say it is a compounded prescription.

 

[Aileen]

I am seeing my doc later this week. Am going to ask her to prescribe it for me. Any suggestions as to what papers to take with me. She is very busy and has little time to read so it has to be short.

 

[RustyJ]

I am currently waiting for a shipment of Iodoquinol from http://mymexicandrugstore.org/ I'll post back here if the shipment arrives and all is in order. They also stock Ketotifen there. The prices there are very reasonable too and they seem to stock a lot of good manufacturers too.

I tried to get Iodoquinol from medsmex and they were a nightmare!!

Hey hixxy, did your order turn up OK?

 

[Dainty]

My food issues are severe; one average I can eat about 5 foods total, and that's including coconut oil as a food.

Several years ago I was prescribed compounded Ketotifen for leaky gut to take with every meal (up to 6 times a day). It seems it made a minor difference with food sensitivities - that was back when my ability to eat was extremely unstable and often limited to one or two foods, or no foods at all. Some time after my diet stabilized to the few foods I've been on for the past several years, I tested the difference the Ketotifen made and could not discern anything noticeable, so I stopped taking it regularly.

I still keep it on hand as an option for when I'm reacting to something I ate, however since I generally try it alongside other things (such heparin injections, Loratadine, and activated carbon [i.e. charcoal]) I cannot be certain of how much it helps.

 

[RustyJ]

I am seeing my doc later this week. Am going to ask her to prescribe it for me. Any suggestions as to what papers to take with me. She is very busy and has little time to read so it has to be short.

Hi Aileen. Did you end up getting ketotifen?

 

[Aileen]

No I didn't. Had to have some tests first which took months, now have a reactivating virus ... Not sure what to do about it now. I have tried some Claritin which doesn't seem to help and also cromolyn sodium nasal and that made things worse (both OTC) so now I'm not sure if a mast cell/histamine drug would help me. Sorry I can't be of help.

 

[RustyJ]

No I didn't. Had to have some tests first which took months, now have a reactivating virus ... Not sure what to do about it now. I have tried some Claritin which doesn't seem to help and also cromolyn sodium nasal and that made things worse (both OTC) so now I'm not sure if a mast cell/histamine drug would help me. Sorry I can't be of help.

Aileen you could try the Clarintin eye drops, that and some other brands contain ketotifen (different formula to allergy tabs, check label), albeit in a lower dosage. Just means you have to take it quite a few times a day.

I ended up ordering ketotifen from hixxy's mex drug supplier (but not much info about product), but just found another, perhaps more legit supplier, as it's the original Zaditen, although you will need a script:

http://www.masters-uk.com/medicines/product.php?productid=1716&cat=0&page=1

http://www.masters-uk.com/medicines/home.php?cat=14&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0&page=2

 

[Insomniac]

I've managed to get some from my GP and taken one tablet a day for 2 days.
During those 2 days I have had had more brain fog than usual but I don't know if it from the Ketotifen or if I would have been brainfogged those 2 days anyway.
I noticed no difference in digestive problems or food allergies in 2 days.

How have others done?

I stopped it today because I am starting hydrotherapy tomorrow and I want to see if that will help me and don't want interference from the ketotifen drug, just in case it is a brain fog increaser.

The only positive thing so far is that unlike other antihistimines, it hasn't made my stomach problems worse.
I'll try to remember to report back once I restart it. How is everyone else doing?

 

[RustyJ]

I've managed to get some from my GP and taken one tablet a day for 2 days.
During those 2 days I have had had more brain fog than usual but I don't know if it from the Ketotifen or if I would have been brainfogged those 2 extra days anyway.
I noticed no difference in digestive problems or food allergies in 2 days.

How have others done?

I stopped it today because I am starting hydrotherapy tomorrow and I want to see if that will help me and don't want interference from the ketotifen drug, just in case it is a brain fog increaser.

The only positive thing so far is that unlike other antihistimines, it hasn't made my stomach problems worse.
I'll try to remember to report back once I restart it. How is everyone else doing?

Initially, despite also taking antihistamines, I had a slight increase in reactions, which may well be the as a result of taking the keto.

I think it takes at least 4 weeks for improvement.

I am not sure whether you are on antihistamines. I have read that it is necessary that you continue to take h1, h2 antagonists such as zyrtec and ranitidine: these work hand in hand with the mast cell stabilizers such as keto and nexium. Nexium, as a mast cell stabilizer (h2) would have a greater impact in the short-term on digestion, but again, it is advised that this is done in conjunction with ranitidine or other h2 antagonist.

As I understand it: h1= eyes and sinus, etc; h2=stomach, digestion

Both need to be addressed at the same time, both by antihistamines and by mast cell stabilizers to prevent the feedback loops occurring.

 

[Insomniac]

...I think it takes at least 4 weeks for improvement.

I am not sure whether you are on antihistamines. I have read that it is necessary that you continue to take h1, h2 antagonists such as zyrtec and ranitidine: these work hand in hand with the mast cell stabilizers such as keto and nexium. Nexium, as a mast cell stabilizer (h2) would have a greater impact in the short-term on digestion, but again, it is advised that this is done in conjunction with ranitidine or other h2 antagonist.

As I understand it: h1= eyes and sinus, etc; h2=stomach, digestion

Both need to be addressed at the same time, both by antihistamines and by mast cell stabilizers to prevent the feedback loops occurring.

No I am not on any other antihistamines.

I just decided to take this alone for leaky gut to see if it helps my gut problems.
All this thread was about taking only ketotifin alone until your post.

I am confused now .

Can't Ketotifin work alone for stomach and digestion?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I think we have some mastocytosis treatment guidelines influencing the dialogue here with the multi-drug antihistamine cocktails. Fact is, ketotifen alone is used to treat leaky gut (see: http://www.collegepharmacy.com/images/download/Woeller_Ketotifen_Protocol.pdf) and ketotifen alone is clinically proven to be helpful for IBS:

Gut. 2010 Sep;59(9):1213-21. Epub 2010 Jul 21.
The mast cell stabiliser ketotifen decreases visceral hypersensitivity and improves intestinal symptoms in patients with irritable bowel syndrome.

Klooker TK, Braak B, Koopman KE, Welting O, Wouters MM, van der Heide S, Schemann M, Bischoff SC, van den Wijngaard RM, Boeckxstaens GE.
Source

Department of Gastroenterology, Academic Medical Center, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Mast cell activation is thought to be involved in visceral hypersensitivity, one of the main characteristics of the irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). A study was therefore undertaken to investigate the effect of the mast cell stabiliser ketotifen on rectal sensitivity and symptoms in patients with IBS.
METHODS:

60 patients with IBS underwent a barostat study to assess rectal sensitivity before and after 8 weeks of treatment. After the initial barostat, patients were randomised to receive ketotifen or placebo. IBS symptoms and health-related quality of life were scored. In addition, mast cells were quantified and spontaneous release of tryptase and histamine was determined in rectal biopsies and compared with biopsies from 22 age- and gender-matched healthy volunteers.
RESULTS:

Ketotifen but not placebo increased the threshold for discomfort in patients with IBS with visceral hypersensitivity. This effect was not observed in normosensitive patients with IBS. Ketotifen significantly decreased abdominal pain and other IBS symptoms and improved quality of life. The number of mast cells in rectal biopsies and spontaneous release of tryptase were lower in patients with IBS than in healthy volunteers. Spontaneous release of histamine was mostly undetectable but was slightly increased in patients with IBS compared with healthy volunteers. Histamine and tryptase release were not altered by ketotifen.
CONCLUSIONS:

This study shows that ketotifen increases the threshold for discomfort in patients with IBS with visceral hypersensitivity, reduces IBS symptoms and improves health-related quality of life. Whether this effect is secondary to the mast cell stabilising properties of ketotifen or H(1) receptor antagonism remains to be further investigated. Trial Registration Number NTR39, ISRCTN22504486.
Comment in

• Is irritable bowel syndrome a rhinitis of the gut? [Gastroenterology. 2011]
• Therapeutic potential of ketotifen in irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) may involve changes in mast cells at sites beyond the rectum. [Gut. 2011]

PMID: 20650926

Ketotifen is a very powerful H1 antagonist so the idea of an additional H1 antagonist seems redundant anyway. If you want more H1 antagonism, why wouldn't you simply take more ketotifen?

And H2 antagonism isn't something to play with lightly. You depend on normal levels of stomach acid to ward off gut infections, as well as absorb a variety of nutrients. The last thing I want to do is impair my digestive processes, leave more undigested protein to stimulate food sensitivities and allergies, and allow my gut flora to become even more deranged. If it is clearly helping someone I wouldn't tell them to stop, but if you're just experimenting to test an unproven MCAS theory of CFS, weigh the risks/benefits carefully.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Also let me give you guys some better sources for ketotifen:

http://www.buy-pharma.com/_-p-478.html

https://www.alldaychemist.com/1203-ketasma-1mg-.html

This next one is a research chem site that caters to bodybuilders so it's a bit shadier but they have a good reputation and I've personally had good luck with them for PDE-5 inhibitors. They also ship quickly from within the USA:

http://www.mpresearchsupply.com/store/products/KETOTIFEN-FUMARATE-1MG-X-60ML-.html

 

[FunkOdyssey]

For anyone trying ketotifen, remember that it is an older antihistamine with good BBB penetration, unlike the newer drugs which are designed not to enter the brain. This means you're going to feel some sedation and impairment of cognition when you begin. I get really frustrated when this discourages people from continuing though, because it is temporary:

J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2002 Oct;22(5):511-5.
Tolerance to daytime sedative effects of H1 antihistamines.

Richardson GS, Roehrs TA, Rosenthal L, Koshorek G, Roth T.
Source

Sleep Disorders Clinic and Research Center, Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, Michigan 48202, USA. gsr@attglobal.net
Abstract

Sedation is the principal side effect of first generation H1 antihistamines, and recent studies have suggested that this side effect should limit the clinical application of these drugs. The sedative effect also underlies the use of these first-generation drugs as nonprescriptive remedies for insomnia. In both cases, the potential for tolerance to the sedative effect of these drugs is an important issue for which there are few objective data. In the study reported here, 15 healthy men age 18 to 50 years received either diphenhydramine 50 mg or placebo twice a day for 4 days in a randomized, double-blind, crossover trial design. Dependent measures included objective and subjective assessments of sleepiness and computer-based tests of psychomotor performance. Both objective and subjective measures of sleepiness showed significantly higher levels on day 1 for diphenhydramine compared to placebo. By day 4, however, levels of sleepiness on diphenhydramine were indistinguishable from placebo. Similarly, diphenhydramine produced significant impairment of performance that was completely reversed by day 4. These data provide the first objective confirmation that tolerance develops to the sedative effect of a prototypical first-generation H1 antihistamine, diphenhydramine. On this dosing regimen, tolerance was complete by the end of 3 days of administration. While other antihistamines and dosing regimens may differ, these results suggest that tolerance to the sedation produced by these drugs develops with remarkable rapidity.
PMID:12352276

H1 receptors in the CNS rapidly adapt to practically any dose and strength of H1 antagonism and restore homeostasis (aka baseline levels of alertness and cognition). Give it a week before drawing any conclusions.

 

[searcher]

Do you know if ketotifen effects acetylcholine FunkOdyssey? What always concerns me about benadryl is the research showing that it is associated with Alzheimer's and cognitive impairment in seniors. Theoretically this is because of its anti-cholinergic function. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/cocktail-of-popular-drugs-may-cloud-brain/ is a good article discussig the link. I still take benadryl for sleep sometimes and hope this is only a problem for seniors, but I get nervous about potentially increasing cognitive dysfunction.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Do you know if ketotifen effects acetylcholine FunkOdyssey?

I don't know for sure but the side effect profile looks like pure H1 antagonism to me (drowsiness, weight gain, irritability, dry mouth). If you look at a typical anticholinergic drug like diphenhydramine the list of sides is about 5x longer and includes scary cardiac stuff, urinary retention, constipation, etc.