Ketamine cures my autonomic dysfunction, exercise and orthostatic intolerance - any idea why?

[Fogbuster]

Hey guys,

As the title suggests taking S-ketamine puts my autonomic nervous system back into balance, it normalises my HPA dysfunction, allows me to exercise and be upright doing activities without my nervous system (and symptoms) going haywire.

When I go for a 20-30 min walk with my dog under the influence of this substance, walk up a hill, stand on the spot for 5 mins plus, basically do things that would normally put my sympathetic nervous system/hyperadrenergic POTS state into major overdrive, I instead feel normal, I can feel the positive effects from the exercise and feel wonderfully energised! I'm completely back in balance, no unnecessary sympathetic activation whatsoever.

The chronic overstimulation I usually experience from doing these activities significantly worsens my very bad brain fog issues and makes socialising even more impossible due to my sympathetic nervous system activating so strongly. I'm a trembling, spacey, cognitively impaired, anxious looking mess. Whilst using K, I repeat, none of this cascade of symptoms occurs!

I'm aware that K is a potent NMDA antagonist, so I originally thought that targeting my NMDA receptors with other NMDA antagonists would have a similar effect, unfortunately this was not the case.


Apart from NMDA antagonism, can you guys help me try and work out what pharmacological properties could be contributing to this tremendous improvement in my POTS/CFS symptoms?

Many thanks for reading! : )

 

[ljimbo423]

When I go for a 20-30 min walk with my dog under the influence of this substance, walk up a hill, stand on the spot for 5 mins plus, basically do things that would normally put my sympathetic nervous system/hyperadrenergic POTS state into major overdrive, I instead feel normal, I can feel the positive effects from the exercise and feel wonderfully energised! I'm completely back in balance, no unnecessary sympathetic activation whatsoever.

That's really amazing! Here is link to a podcast that talks about how Ketamine can have powerful effects on the brain.

Ketamine for Breakthroughs in Brain Health & Emotions

Written by Dr. Michael Ruscio, DNM, DC on May 3, 2021
The perspective-shifting and emotional healing powers of ketamine, a legal psychedelic, with Dr. Ken Adolph.

On today’s podcast episode, I talk with Dr. Ken Adolph about how ketamine, a legal psychedelic, can be used as a tool to help break the cycle of ruminations for those with depression, anxiety, PTSD, past trauma, and maybe even for those with food or environmental reactivity.

Here is a screenshot of the podcast chapters-

Link to podcast

EDIT- There is a full transcript of the podcast at the bottom of the page.

 

[andyguitar]

Apart from NMDA antagonism, can you guys help me try and work out what pharmacological properties could be contributing to this tremendous improvement in my POTS/CFS symptoms?

I'd go for the probabiity it is raising the levels of Dopamine in your brain.

 

[sb4]

Apart from NMDA antagonism, can you guys help me try and work out what pharmacological properties could be contributing to this tremendous improvement in my POTS/CFS symptoms?

Just skimming wikipedia it says ketamine can also increase blood pressure and intracranial pressure. Perhaps the increased BP helps force the blood into your cells better or maybe you have some form of intracranial hypotension.

 

[Dubitat]

Ketamine is primarily used for anesthesia. By taking a low dose, you are partially sedating yourself and inhibiting sensory feedback loops. It makes sense that hyperadrenergic POTS would be lessened under a partially sedated state. Unfortunately, going through life in partial sedation is not option, and Ketamine is unlikely to be sustainable for frequent use.

I'm aware that K is a potent NMDA antagonist, so I originally thought that targeting my NMDA receptors with other NMDA antagonists would have a similar effect, unfortunately this was not the case.

None of the over the counter medications or supplements come close to Ketamine's potency at NMDA receptors. Ketamine also has many other actions including dopamine D2 agonist activity, a number of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor affinities, and even some poorly understood opioid receptor interactions.

That said, I suspect your reaction can be explained as a simple damping of the overall nervous system due to partial sedation.

Have you already tried the usual treatments for hyperadrenergic POTS such as propranolol?

 

[Davsey27]

Yes seems nmda antagonists/Calcium channel blockers can be beneficial for some with this conditon

 

[lenora]

I was one of the fentanyl patients because of severe chronic nerve pain. I was on it for years and was lucky in that I was able to stop it without all of the side-effects. (I also took regular vacations from its use, always tapering off slowly, and the same when I finally quit). I'm in pain now, but there is a compound ointment that contains ketamine, along with other ingredients, that helps immensely.

My questions are how long have you been on ketamine, and how long does your doctor hope to keep you on it? I feel very untrustworthy of the government after fentanyl was very quickly removed from everyday use...and yes, we were looked at as drug abuser. Many people did become addicts. This is sad, but true.

I know that ketamine works on different brain receptors, but how does anyone know if either this will stop working in the future, or addiction will be a result? I'm very suspicious of everything now...and I come from the days when elavil was the only drug available for us.

Truly, I'm glad that it works and you're able to live a life that's closer to normal....why wouldn't I be? But I am leery about people suffering the way so many others did b/c not enough was known about the drug at the time it was given.

I'm still at annoyed at our government (both state and federal) about the way this issue was handled. Do you see a separate pain specialist as that is now required of us? Perhaps ketamine is the golden grail, it would be wonderful.

Any comments at all would be most appreciated. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Celandine]

Hi @Fogbuster . What dosage are you on? Frequency?

 

[godlovesatrier]

Have you checked our Dr Goldstein's work? He used ketamine on severe ME patients as he found it worked in many occasions. But I also think if I remember he used it rarely because it was the hardest hitting drug in his list.

Ketamine: The best single agent for CFS/FMS and all other neurosomatic disorders. Known best as an NMDA receptor antagonist (the NMDA receptor is one of the several receptors for the excitatory amino acid glutamate), it increases dopamine in the limbic system, a very important objective in CFS. I administer it by slow intravenous infusion or in PLO gel for transdermal (through the skin) absorption. The intravenous route is more effective, but transdermal application can be done daily, and if effective, can obviate peaks and valleys and need for IVs. I have seen no cases of Ketamine abuse among my patients. Ketamine is one component of my "resurrection cocktail," for patients who have been bedridden for more than a year and whom I may only see once. The others are IV ascorbate, IV lidocaine, IV thyrotropin- releasing hormone (which raises all biogenic amines plus acetylcholine), Nimotop, and Neurontin (still the most effective oral agent but is being pushed by Tasmar). I am doing trials with Ketamine eyedrops.

Jay Goldstein passed away a few years ago. But he probably has said a fair amount in his books about ketamine.

http://www.cfstreatmentguide.com/dr-jay-goldstein-a-z-treatments.html

 

[MonkeyMan]

Resurrecting this thread as I recently read that ketamine calms down microglia. So that may be part of why it helps ME/CFS patients.

Has anyone here tried oral or transdermal ketamine? Those seem like more practical options than infusions.

 

[lenora]

Hi @MonkeyMan....I do have transdermal ketamine. It's going to take time before it's easily applicable and doesn't stain clothing, but I expect we'll get there.

For years transdermal gabapentin worked and I should have just continued it....especially with the pain I'm now experiencing. Most neurologist will use prescriptions from a compound pharmacy. If the pharmacy is too far away, then the product can be shipped with ice packs. Yours, Lenora.

 

[MonkeyMan]

Hi @MonkeyMan....I do have transdermal ketamine.

Thank you @lenora. Do you find it helps you with any symptoms besides pain? (Better sleep? More energy? Less brain fog?)

 

[Mouse girl]

interesting. i was looking at low dose ketamine uses for depression, anxiety and ptsd. it scares me though as i know what it can do to people who have used it as a party drug. and i would worry about having a bad trip and losing my mind or just really getting worse as my anxiety and fear level is through the roof all day everyday.

 

[Mouse girl]

I would also be interested if it helps with sleep and anxiety or brainfog etc.

 

[lenora]

Hello @MonkeyMan. I wish there were other applications but I certainly never noticed them. I'm actually going back to gabapentin & other ingredients until they can formulate ketamine in a better way.

Nothing has ever helped with my insomnia and exhaustion is a constant companion. Please remember that I'm older though, going on 75, so one expect that these "extras" will become part of life. Such as broken bones and a league of other problems. Still, I would ask and follow the progress being made b/c it's ongoing.

@Mouse girl.....No, I've found no lasting relief for sleep, anxiety (I do take medication for that....I have to in order to have any sort of life) or brainfog. Ketamine has only been useful for pain...and even at that I'm not getting large amounts of it. Would I take it alone? No, I wouldn't and like I told Monkey Man, I'm going back to the gabapentin (& other ingredients) until the latest addition is perfected.

Gabapentin has done a lot for me in the way of pain relief...thankfully. I can't take it as a med b/c of the way my body reacts, but it certainly helps in this other application. Unfortunately, it's expensive....but I go through times when I barely use it all.

In the early days of having anxiety, I did find relief in using the AA book and following the 12 steps...or at least most of them. Later, anxiety was out of hand and I had to turn to other sources for help. I just did a mix and match program that worked for me. It actually did a better job than an organization especially for those suffering from anxiety (Recovery, Inc.....not the one for sex abuse). I hope you'll find help somewhere along the way....keep reading and asking your doctor.

Wishing both of you well.....Yours, Lenora.